Black Antelope wrote:

Nachturnus wrote:Yeah, I was basing the way his C'Tan scream works off of Nurgle's Rot, which allows for the caster to essentially cast it on themselves even when locked in assault. I'll edit in under necrodermis cosntruction that he is immune to the effects of C'Tan scream, friendly or otherwise. The idea behind it was to make it so that the Fleshbender's limited combat stats would not be a hinderance for him fighting the IG.

If he pops an assault terminator when he appears, he does 40 pts of dmg there already. if he pops a guardsman, that's like 6 points. 4 attacks isn't enough to combat a giant pile of guard or gaunts, so he needed something to make him more lethal. This guy is worthless against tanks, which was the intent though.

EDIT:

It's been edited.

It can hurt tanks, its S5 (rear 10 on most stuff) and a TL Gauss Flayer (so slightly better than a warrior)


I still say C'tan scream is too good. Its 6 6, compaired to N's Rot which is 3 -.
You could just give him an improved Lightning Field

Nachturnus wrote:
The Bloody Fleshbender:

Long ago the deceiver imbued a brilliant Necrontyr assassin with the ability to change his appearance at will. When the Necrontyr were damned to their metalic existance the Fleshbender, as he had come to be called, was instead uploaded into a pool of living metal, preserving his ability to change and magnifying it to never before seen levels. Unlike the rest of his Necron brethren, The Fleshbender has spent the last million years awake, killing, and learning to download the memories and behaviors of his victims. Long years of research have resulted in learning the knowledge allowing it to impersonate anything from an Eldar Aspect Warrior to a Tactical Space marine.


PTS: 210

WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:6 W:2 I:5 A:4 Ld:10 Sv: 3++

Special Rules: The Fleshbender, Prefered Enemy, Necron.

The Fleshbender: This unit does not deploy at the start of the mission, but is instead kept in reserves. At the beginning of the game a D6 is rolled; if the result is 5+, Fleshbender may deploy within any enemy infantry squad (excluding special characters or ICs). On a 3+ it may deploy within a fast attack squad or infantry squad. On any other roll the Fleshbender must deploy only within troops choices. When The Fleshbender may be deployed from reserves, the metallic tendrils explodes forth from his disguise, both destroying a model in the squad of the squad owner's choosing, and letting forth a Howl of the Necrontyr. All units surrounding the flesh bender move a minimum of 1 inch away from him, and if the unit was embarked in a transport, the units must all debark before the template is placed, as they attempt to escape the mind-shattering wail.

Wargear: Necrodermis Construction, Metal Tendrils, Howl of the Necrontyr

Necrodermis Construction: The fleshbender's body is made of unnaturally shifting living metal, and is thus nearly impossible to damage, granting him a 3+ invulnerable save. This also allows the Fleshbender to fire a Twin Linked Gauss Flayer during his shooting phase.

Liquid Metal Tendrils: The Fleshbender's melee attacks slide into the tiniest crevices, crush windpipes with cold metal, and mono-molecular needles penetrate ceremite and flesh like butter, Ignoring armor saves.

Howl of the Necrontyr: The Fleshbender is capable of emitting a mind-sundering, ear-drum rupturing, marrow rattling burst of sonic energy. Place a large blast template over The fleshbender. All enemy infantry units with model partially or completely under the template take a pinning test, and suffer a S 5 AP 5 hit for each model under the template. This weapon is unable to resonate with tank armor, and thus all results greater than crew stunned against vehicles are reduced to crew stunned.

Nachturnus wrote:
Janus, The Hundred Handed

A small group of necron warriors from a distant tomb world have been fused together, having traveled through the warp in an unstable space hulk. The end result is a single, oddly shaped warrior with a dozen eyes staring out from a mouth somehow sculpted by the warp into a silent, screaming wail of torment.

PTS: 50 (or 60), May only be taken in addition to a squad of warriors.

WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:3 A:4 Ld:10 Sv: 4+

Special Rules: Necron, Slow and purposeful.

Wargear: Relocation Matrix, Curse of the Hundred Handed, Three Twin-linked Gauss Flayers,

Curse of the Hundred Handed: Janus behaves as though he had the Targeting Matrix Wargear, as its eyes and arms all act independently from one another, and his many brains are able to assess threats that pass unperceived by other warriors and then relay the information to his squad, reducing the number of attacks of each enemy squad in an assault by 1. Unfortunately his status as an amalgamation also severely taxes his repair systems, and thus his Feel No Pain saves must be made on a 5+, and may never climb above 4+.

dancingcricket wrote:OK. Interesting codex. Short on time so only a few things, I'll look at it again later when I have a bit more time.

1) Phase-out. No, get rid of it. The army is too expensive point wise to have phase out as well. Particularly since your nerfing WBB.

It really isn't a nerf. Its slighty worse vs AP1/2 fire, better vs lots of fire (as you cannot kill the whole unit and remove WBB), much better in CC (keeps them alive to strike back, lowers losses to avoid Sweeping Advance, the Necrons worst fear) and MUCH better on multiwound models.

2) The WBB solution, while moving it to FNP is pretty much written in the stars as going to happen, it really makes me want to play chaos marines instead, because the support option are so much better. Like transports you can put them in to protect them further and get them where they need to be. And melta weapons to get rid of armor. But getting back 1d3 per time you move them through a portal, and they cant assault, is a rather large restriction on the ability. Yes, they should have lost less with the FNP being pretty much available, yes they can keep regenerating up till their full strength, but it changes the feel significantly. The look of despair on an opponents face when they take out 9 of 10 immortals, and then they all get back up is priceless...

But if necrons get transports, melta etc, they become yet another marine variant. If you look at the Warrior stat line, I've pulled it away from MEQ. All Assault troops have some way of getting their fast (DS, Infiltrate, JetBike) so you really shouldn't be portaling them. Warriors/Immortals should be the ones using portals to avoid assault and dance around.
Also, you really cannot compair PM to Necrons

3) Immobile vehicles. OK. They pylon yes. The others, no. And if they're going to be immobile, then they should be able to fire the round they land, as opposed to having to wait a round to be shot at, and letting everything get out of their 12" effective range. Give them a range of 18-24 maybe. Maybe.

4) I'd like to see the wraith body for the lord, let a unit of wraiths be taken as troops, and a SC wraith-lord, letting you take wraiths as troops without restrictions. (I like wraiths...)

I've said no to any form of "Body-Lord SC" simpy because theyd be too near what could be created anyway.

5) Power weapons on wraiths is not over powered. Not at 40 points, not at 50 points. If you think it is, lets look at it this way. 50 pts per, 5 of them, 250 pts. 25 attacks at decent speed and str. For 250 pts I can take 15 Bloodletters in my daemon army, and have rending on one of them. Which is 45 power weapon attacks on the charge, that go off before marines, have a higher WS than marines, and will wound on 3's against marines. I have yet to find a marine squad, or for that matter a terminator squad, that stands up well to that. Not overpowered.

Will look at the rest later.

Janus, The Hundred Handed

A small group of necron warriors from a distant tomb world have been fused together, having traveled through the warp in an unstable space hulk. The end result is a single, oddly shaped warrior with a dozen eyes staring out from a mouth somehow sculpted by the warp into a silent, screaming wail of torment.

A unit of warriors may upgrade a single model to Janus, The Hundred Handed for 30 points.

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 5 5 5 2 3 2 10 4+

Janus, The Hundred Handed is armed with Three Twin-linked Gauss Flayers and Relocation Matrix.
It has the Necron, Slow and Purposeful and Curse of the Hundred Handed

Curse of the Hundred Handed: Janus behaves as though he had the Targeting Matrix Wargear, as its eyes and arms all act independently from one another. Its many brains are able to assess threats that pass unperceived by other warriors and then relay the information to it's squad, so the squad counts as being equiped with defensive grendes. Unfortunately his status as an amalgamation also severely taxes his repair systems, and thus his Feel No Pain saves are reduced by 1.

Black Antelope wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:OK. Interesting codex. Short on time so only a few things, I'll look at it again later when I have a bit more time.

1) Phase-out. No, get rid of it. The army is too expensive point wise to have phase out as well. Particularly since your nerfing WBB.

It really isn't a nerf. Its slighty worse vs AP1/2 fire, better vs lots of fire (as you cannot kill the whole unit and remove WBB), much better in CC (keeps them alive to strike back, lowers losses to avoid Sweeping Advance, the Necrons worst fear) and MUCH better on multiwound models.

2) The WBB solution, while moving it to FNP is pretty much written in the stars as going to happen, it really makes me want to play chaos marines instead, because the support option are so much better. Like transports you can put them in to protect them further and get them where they need to be. And melta weapons to get rid of armor. But getting back 1d3 per time you move them through a portal, and they cant assault, is a rather large restriction on the ability. Yes, they should have lost less with the FNP being pretty much available, yes they can keep regenerating up till their full strength, but it changes the feel significantly. The look of despair on an opponents face when they take out 9 of 10 immortals, and then they all get back up is priceless...

But if necrons get transports, melta etc, they become yet another marine variant. If you look at the Warrior stat line, I've pulled it away from MEQ. All Assault troops have some way of getting their fast (DS, Infiltrate, JetBike) so you really shouldn't be portaling them. Warriors/Immortals should be the ones using portals to avoid assault and dance around.
Also, you really cannot compair PM to Necrons

3) Immobile vehicles. OK. They pylon yes. The others, no. And if they're going to be immobile, then they should be able to fire the round they land, as opposed to having to wait a round to be shot at, and letting everything get out of their 12" effective range. Give them a range of 18-24 maybe. Maybe.

4) I'd like to see the wraith body for the lord, let a unit of wraiths be taken as troops, and a SC wraith-lord, letting you take wraiths as troops without restrictions. (I like wraiths...)

I've said no to any form of "Body-Lord SC" simpy because theyd be too near what could be created anyway.

5) Power weapons on wraiths is not over powered. Not at 40 points, not at 50 points. If you think it is, lets look at it this way. 50 pts per, 5 of them, 250 pts. 25 attacks at decent speed and str. For 250 pts I can take 15 Bloodletters in my daemon army, and have rending on one of them. Which is 45 power weapon attacks on the charge, that go off before marines, have a higher WS than marines, and will wound on 3's against marines. I have yet to find a marine squad, or for that matter a terminator squad, that stands up well to that. Not overpowered.

Will look at the rest later.

Lets compair 'letters to wraiths shall we:
Wraith is 21p more than a letter, loses 1WS, FC, PW

For this you get:
+2S
+2T
+1I
+2A
a 3+/3++ save rather than a -/5++
Jetbike
Rending
Frag Grenades
WraithFlight
Hit and Run

and you want to give them PW AND drop their points cost?
Please go to page 2 and review my earlier post on the strenghs of wraiths. They are a COMPLETELY different unit to 'letters, and should NEVER be used in the same fasion.

dancingcricket wrote:Alright, couple other things real quick. (Reading on my breaks at work, so bear with me).

Terrifying Visage. Meh. -1 Ld isn't all that great. Against a non CC focused unit, your probably going to do well enough to make them run anyhow. Against a CC focused unit, it wont make much difference, as chances are it's you thats going to be losing, and too many of the CC focused units out there are fearless in some way or other. I would have been perfectly happy with terrifying visage as it stands in the current necron codex if it was a leadership test, not a morale test, and fearless units weren't immune. It would make the flayers useful, and the pariahs useful to have nearby. As is, they're not going to be overly concerned about that -1 leadership. Otherwise, maybe rending for the flayed ones?

They do stack though, so taking a Lord w/GoF and the Flayed One SC in a unit of Flayed Ones drops the enemy Ld by 3.

Second - have you considered some sort of rule to back up the fluff that the tyranids tend to want to avoid the necrons. Diverting coarse to avoid a planet, devestated by their attack, etc. Some way for the soulless ability to interfere with synapse perhaps? I realize it makes it very army specific as to what they're good against, but it would be an interesting addition.

If I did that, I'd have to put in that some of the other stuff doesn't work on them (as they have no souls), so I'm leaving as-is for simplicties sake.

Third - Living metal. Does your 4+ cover save work against hand to hand attacks? Mostly wondering because I'm rather tired of some juiced up glory boy (space marine) with an electrified gauntlet coming up and punching to death a tank that shrugs off melta rounds, anti-tank cannon shots, eldar lance weapons, etc. Also, it opens it up to CC attacks by monstrous creatures that before had a more difficult time affecting it, as now they get their 2 dice instead of 1.

1)It is NOT a cover save, it is simply a 4+ that can be in addition to a Cover/Inv save
2)"grants the vehicle a 4+ save against all damage"

Doesn't matter what causes the hit, enemy CC, enemy shooting, your shooting, exploding tanks in apoc etc, the 4+ is taken agaist them ALL

4) Would it be simpler on the gauss to just word it as it currently is in the book, and just give the tank-hunter ability to everyone, or at least to most? It doesn't negate the usefullness of disruption fields, as you'll still need them to assault and hurt a LR, and for when you get assaulted by a dread...

Eh, not really. This way is a lot stronger, and harks back to the rules as in 4th.

5) I wouldn't mind seeing more defensive grenades on the shooty guys. Instead of taking disruption field for assault grenades, being able to take them for defensive instead might be nice.

How would you price def. greandes ?

6) Defence swarms, I'm not sure how they help with defense. Now, if you could take them as wargear for a unit and provided the unit with a +1 to +2 on cover saves, as it's hard to determine where to shoot with the swarm of scarabs flitting about making things dark and hazy, that would be usefull. And worth an extra 20-30 points, for the unit, depending on the bonus they give. As is, the defense swarms seem more of a guided missile swarm. At the very least, if your keeping them as is, you might want to make it a shooting attack for the self destruct, otherwise people are going to be turbo-boosting from behind cover 24 inches ahead to get as close as possible to something and going boom, making it rather hard to defend against. 5 of them in a single unit gives you 5-15 S5 large blasts that wont deviate, avg 10, for 150 pts. The only saving grace is that you have to place it over the swarm base, and you can't move within 1" during the movement phase, so it'll reduce things a bit. To really minimize it, you might want to mention that it needs to be centered over the swarm base, otherwise if the large blast is only covering a 1/4 inch of the base, it's still technically over the swarm base. From such things are UMDC rules debates made.

Its Defence as in Defender or Guard. Their just better CC scarabs

7) Monolith - More expensive. Ow. But alright, or would be alright if there was no phase out. Ponderous lets you move and fire as if standing still. Alright, hasn't been a problem moving and firing, but now it can deepstrike and fire the gauss flux arc, where current codex it can't. At least if I'm understanding ponderous correctly. Is particle whip going to be such that it can't be disable again, or will the foe be able to silence it? Can you fire it and the gauss flux arc in the same round now? The tank is more vulnerable to incoming fire with the changes in living metal that you propose, what is justifying the extra 65 points of cost? Can it use the portal and shoot everything now?

It can use all its weapons the turn it DS's, it can shoot flux arcs, whip and portal on the same turn, has +1BS, has the cool DSing Tank Shock rule, has Living Metal which is IMO stronger than it was.

You cannot kill the Whip "Weapon Destroyed results do not destroy any weapons"

8) Portal - I don't agree with the no assault. Personal preference. But yanking a troop of CC guys through, only getting an average of 2 a chance to stand back up, and then having them wander around aimlessly for a round getting shot up seems less than wonderful. Nice though the unit you pull can be anywhere on the board, as opposed to 'relatively close'. Also, unless it's intentional, you may want to change the wording to limit it to one unit per turn. As it stands it seems to be more of a thing that any (including all) units can choose to do every round, so long as they can fit in/near the portal. And since you do movement 1 unit at a time, first unit moves through, gets back a guy or two, and moves out of the way for the next squad to cycle through. Rinse repeat till your whole army has teleported across the board. For 300 points, a semi-fixed location to redeploy everyone through at the beginning of a turn sounds like a reasonable cost, but probably not what was intended. And again, I'd like the wraiths to be able to assault out of the thing. Did I mention yet that I really like wraiths?

Yeah, it should be one unit, so thanks for that. Also, assulting out of it, wraiths especily is a bit OP, as it basicly gives them 18" treat range around their current location, or 18" around ANY portal

9) At 30 pts per swarm, can repair swarms count as having res orbs, or do the same as the portal does for a unit, maybe a bit enhanced, return 1d6 models to service, up to the original number? Maybe take a wound or lose a model if a 6 is rolled in the process? (And I promise I'm not asking just because I have 60 swarm bases I'd like to be able to use.)

They give +1 to FNP...

10) Pylon - again, not quite feeling it. Low points, can take several, and reasonably tough for the points. But immobile, and only have a 6" range for something with terrible AP, that's a large blast, which usually means it can drift, including backwards. 6" means it's easy to avoid it's danger zone, so the only thing its going to excel at is dumping several onto an objective, and forcing the opponent to clear you off. It just doesn't seem worthy of the same name as the pylon from the apocalypse book, with its long range SD weaponry.

As I said before, the gun is not important, they are AV12 portals, nothing more. Would 100p be a better cost?

11) Relocation matrix - so, no combat resolution? Mixed blessing, lose horribly and phase out to come back later, cheating your opponent of the ability to run you down. Do well, but need to get across the board to claim an objective, the opponent doesn't have to worry about running. But it really messes with the normal flow of combat, more than just about anything else I've seen, including the Mawlocs deepstrike attack and the mystics designating a target. While relatively simple, it might be best to leave it till after combat resolution, and having it let them do something similar to hit and run, with the fade from the table move. Or a saving grace, so if they get run down they can fade away and still come back. Otherwise, it's a nice mechanic for getting across the board relatively quickly to grab those objectives, and has a downside, in that it's time the unit cant be shooting while they aren't on the table, and early game it may not be easy to come back. Of course round 5 they'll show up regardless, so at the end of your opponents round 4 if your went first, or their round 5 if they went first, everything disappears, and reappears on objectives, with no way to really stop them. Especially if they dropped half a dozen pylons and obelisks down on the objectives in the first place. Hmm, might be a bit underpriced. All in all though, still not sure if it's a suitable replacement for run. Particularly as long as the inquisitor and mystics are still out there.

They can only Deepstrike if they have the Deepstrike rule (ie Flayed One) or have bought it (ie Lord w/Shifting Mists). I will clarify that though. it was also ment to be that you had to role for reserves to get them back - 4+ on the turn after they pop, 3+ on the second turn after they pop etc.

12) On the note of the relocation matrix. Any chance of a piece of wargear for the lord that increases your reserve rolls? Maybe some wargear available for wraiths and/or other units (maybe a swarm unit, or the hounds or one of the vehicles) that acts as a teleport homer?

Yeah, I think I'll add a +1 to reseves item. Any ideas for a name?

13) Solar pulse, is it a one time thing, or all game? And I did like the ability to negate night fighting for a round. Helpfull in all the dawn of war battles...

On all the time

14) Gauss Stripper - Sounds neat. One of the more interesting ideas, conceptually, I've seen for the 'crons in a while. Not sure I'd like it as a TO though, as you'd be removing terrain off the table left and right, and then I'd have to come back and set it up again after you. As a player, I'd really consider bringing 2. Relatively cheap, and all of a sudden, there's no cover on the board, and no terrain to hamper my movement. Objective on the 4th floor of this ruin, well, ruin is gone, now it's on the ground. Don't need 5 rounds of climbing up there to claim it anymore. (Would have been less, but I'm S&P and can't run.) Or does such an objective go away as well? That would really irk the opponent, hit them, take away their cover, do some damage to them, and remove the objective they were sitting on from the game. I like it.

Nah, objectives stay their, dropping to the floor if needed. If the terrian itself is the objective (for a non-rulebook game) then it is removed.

15) Destroyer body - is it +1T like it currently is, so I can put a bronze lord on one and he'll be immune to instant death from double toughness, or will it be 5(6) for him, so a demolisher can take him out with one shot? I'm assuming from the destroyers that it's the latter.

Its TX(X+1) like normal. I will clarify that.
FYI, Bronze lords cannot take bodies

16) Silver Lord, and I've seen a couple others, where they don't seem to have a destroyer body, but have their T listed in the format of [x(x+1)]. Any particular reason?

So their vunerable to ID at S10, but T6 vs small arms. On the Silver Lord in particular, it was because I wanted it to be slightly weaker than the Gold Lord, without putting the Gold Order over T6.

17) Immortals - Wouldn't mind revisiting the cost of them. They cost almost as much as pariahs, and have less special rules to them, and aren't as rough and tumble in CC. I'll admit you boosted them up from where they were, but yikes.

They go up 4 points from the old dex (in which they were one of the best units):
-1WS
S&P

+1BS
+1S
+1T
+1Shot

I'd say its worth it

18) Conversely - 10 pt swarms, number up to 20 bases, and not taking up a FOC, might be a bit underpriced. 60 wounds that move like jetbikes, so they'll have the best chance at getting off the charge, up to 80 attacks on the charge (if the opponent is extremely unlucky at hitting them), and is going to take anything that isn't a squad full of thunderhammers or powerfists a long time to wittle through. Thinking that either 10 pts per is too low, they need fewer models, or that they will need to take up a FOC. My opinion of course.

Shall I just get rid of this line: "They cannot hold objectives, or count as compulsory choices, but do not take up FOC slots."?
This leaves them able to contest, but not hold (Swarms), count as Troops choice, but you can have them for 1 of the compusary slots

19) Wouldn't mind seeing some sort of gun platform in the heavies. It's usually where you have the things that deal with opponents armor and heavies, but with gauss working not as necessary. But something that you could choose weapon options on, maybe to drop small blasts on foes at good range, lots of shots (pinning maybe, weapons of terror from the undead guys...), or something with lance or at least AP1 on it.

GHC is S9 AP1 H1 and the GC is S6 AP3 H3
What would you arm a HS gun with?

Otherwise, rather interesting, I'd be happy to test it out, once the local tourney I'm prepping for has passed. Don't want to get actual rules mixed up with proposed rules right before the event...

Black Antelope wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:Alright, couple other things real quick. (Reading on my breaks at work, so bear with me).

Terrifying Visage. Meh. -1 Ld isn't all that great. Against a non CC focused unit, your probably going to do well enough to make them run anyhow. Against a CC focused unit, it wont make much difference, as chances are it's you thats going to be losing, and too many of the CC focused units out there are fearless in some way or other. I would have been perfectly happy with terrifying visage as it stands in the current necron codex if it was a leadership test, not a morale test, and fearless units weren't immune. It would make the flayers useful, and the pariahs useful to have nearby. As is, they're not going to be overly concerned about that -1 leadership. Otherwise, maybe rending for the flayed ones?

They do stack though, so taking a Lord w/GoF and the Flayed One SC in a unit of Flayed Ones drops the enemy Ld by 3.

Oh Goody. Now the fearless bloodcrushers are at Ld 7. The harlequins that just ripped through you, or banshees, or whichever, that hit you easily because terrifying visage no longer makes it difficult (not that it did that much in the first place) aren't concerned, cause you aren't there. The bloodclaws that charged you can have -3 to their leadership, but chances are your losing the combat to them anyhow, so it's not going to matter much. Yeah, shoot the assaulty guys, attack the shooty guys. Doesn't always work though. And giving them either rending, or making the original terrifying visage actually work, regardless of fearless for instance, that would be something that you could use to base a CC necron army around.

Second - have you considered some sort of rule to back up the fluff that the tyranids tend to want to avoid the necrons. Diverting coarse to avoid a planet, devestated by their attack, etc. Some way for the soulless ability to interfere with synapse perhaps? I realize it makes it very army specific as to what they're good against, but it would be an interesting addition.

If I did that, I'd have to put in that some of the other stuff doesn't work on them (as they have no souls), so I'm leaving as-is for simplicties sake.

Third - Living metal. Does your 4+ cover save work against hand to hand attacks? Mostly wondering because I'm rather tired of some juiced up glory boy (space marine) with an electrified gauntlet coming up and punching to death a tank that shrugs off melta rounds, anti-tank cannon shots, eldar lance weapons, etc. Also, it opens it up to CC attacks by monstrous creatures that before had a more difficult time affecting it, as now they get their 2 dice instead of 1.

1)It is NOT a cover save, it is simply a 4+ that can be in addition to a Cover/Inv save
2)"grants the vehicle a 4+ save against all damage"

Doesn't matter what causes the hit, enemy CC, enemy shooting, your shooting, exploding tanks in apoc etc, the 4+ is taken agaist them ALL

Including Str D weapons? Might want to specify that, just in case. Otherwise, I'd be willing to play around with it and see how it works. Going to miss annoying all the people with their melta though, telling them they don't get thier extra dice.

4) Would it be simpler on the gauss to just word it as it currently is in the book, and just give the tank-hunter ability to everyone, or at least to most? It doesn't negate the usefullness of disruption fields, as you'll still need them to assault and hurt a LR, and for when you get assaulted by a dread...

Eh, not really. This way is a lot stronger, and harks back to the rules as in 4th.

Actually tank hunter sounds a bit stronger. It gives a +1 on the chart for CC and shooting when using the armor penetration, so you don't need to include it in the disruption field. And it uses a standard rule, which is something that seems to be what GW is going for.

Was taking out the ability to always wound on a 6 regardless of toughness a oversite or intentional? With Monstrous creatures starting to be a bit less monstrous nowadays it may not be as much an issue, just saying.

5) I wouldn't mind seeing more defensive grenades on the shooty guys. Instead of taking disruption field for assault grenades, being able to take them for defensive instead might be nice.

How would you price def. greandes ?

Hmm, add it in to the disruption field and cost an extra point per model. It may sound a bit underpriced to some, but since it seems to cost about 5 for the combo of offensive and defensive grenades on singleton models in other codexes, and we're already talking about models that are fairly pricey to begin with, it doesn't sound too unreasonable. Particularly if you want to seperate the grenade effect from disruption field, come up with another name, like repulsor field for instance, and make that the grenades, then between 3-5 depending on the unit.

6) Defence swarms, I'm not sure how they help with defense. Now, if you could take them as wargear for a unit and provided the unit with a +1 to +2 on cover saves, as it's hard to determine where to shoot with the swarm of scarabs flitting about making things dark and hazy, that would be usefull. And worth an extra 20-30 points, for the unit, depending on the bonus they give. As is, the defense swarms seem more of a guided missile swarm. At the very least, if your keeping them as is, you might want to make it a shooting attack for the self destruct, otherwise people are going to be turbo-boosting from behind cover 24 inches ahead to get as close as possible to something and going boom, making it rather hard to defend against. 5 of them in a single unit gives you 5-15 S5 large blasts that wont deviate, avg 10, for 150 pts. The only saving grace is that you have to place it over the swarm base, and you can't move within 1" during the movement phase, so it'll reduce things a bit. To really minimize it, you might want to mention that it needs to be centered over the swarm base, otherwise if the large blast is only covering a 1/4 inch of the base, it's still technically over the swarm base. From such things are UMDC rules debates made.

Its Defence as in Defender or Guard. Their just better CC scarabs

Alright, missed the 5 attacks per base. So the hope is that you charge into CC, have a couple survive all the attacks coming at you, and next round in the opponents turn when they're in base to base, you have half of them blow up, hopefully killing enough to make up for your losses, and maybe making them run. Not sure if the opponent would flee out of combat from something like that, it'd be nice. Will they explode from being hit, or is it voluntary only?

7) Monolith - More expensive. Ow. But alright, or would be alright if there was no phase out. Ponderous lets you move and fire as if standing still. Alright, hasn't been a problem moving and firing, but now it can deepstrike and fire the gauss flux arc, where current codex it can't. At least if I'm understanding ponderous correctly. Is particle whip going to be such that it can't be disable again, or will the foe be able to silence it? Can you fire it and the gauss flux arc in the same round now? The tank is more vulnerable to incoming fire with the changes in living metal that you propose, what is justifying the extra 65 points of cost? Can it use the portal and shoot everything now?

It can use all its weapons the turn it DS's, it can shoot flux arcs, whip and portal on the same turn, has +1BS, has the cool DSing Tank Shock rule, has Living Metal which is IMO stronger than it was.

You cannot kill the Whip "Weapon Destroyed results do not destroy any weapons"


8) Portal - I don't agree with the no assault. Personal preference. But yanking a troop of CC guys through, only getting an average of 2 a chance to stand back up, and then having them wander around aimlessly for a round getting shot up seems less than wonderful. Nice though the unit you pull can be anywhere on the board, as opposed to 'relatively close'. Also, unless it's intentional, you may want to change the wording to limit it to one unit per turn. As it stands it seems to be more of a thing that any (including all) units can choose to do every round, so long as they can fit in/near the portal. And since you do movement 1 unit at a time, first unit moves through, gets back a guy or two, and moves out of the way for the next squad to cycle through. Rinse repeat till your whole army has teleported across the board. For 300 points, a semi-fixed location to redeploy everyone through at the beginning of a turn sounds like a reasonable cost, but probably not what was intended. And again, I'd like the wraiths to be able to assault out of the thing. Did I mention yet that I really like wraiths?

Yeah, it should be one unit, so thanks for that. Also, assulting out of it, wraiths especily is a bit OP, as it basicly gives them 18" treat range around their current location, or 18" around ANY portal

Not sure it's that overpowered. Particularly if you keep with the normal disembarkation(spelling?) rules. Count coming through a portal as disembarking, and with no assault ramps or counting as open top, they can only have their threat range from portals that didn't move. And it lets an opponent try to block them a bit better. It will unfortunately cut out a lot of the 1st round assaults that were possible under 4th, when getting out of a monolith counted as getting out of a vehicle that hadn't moved. It'll give you a way to have 'threat areas' or 'control areas' to try to funnel your opponent, but will give clearer rules for blocking it off, as blocking access points is something already covered in rules. And it leaves the possibility of emergency disembark open.

9) At 30 pts per swarm, can repair swarms count as having res orbs, or do the same as the portal does for a unit, maybe a bit enhanced, return 1d6 models to service, up to the original number? Maybe take a wound or lose a model if a 6 is rolled in the process? (And I promise I'm not asking just because I have 60 swarm bases I'd like to be able to use.)

They give +1 to FNP...

Alright, nice catch making it a solid 3+ FNP as opposed to a +1 to it, otherwise youd have everyone wandering around with a 2+ in short order. Still, 30 pts each seems a bit pricey for a 2 inch range of doing that. Really easy to pull squads away from them for a combat, denying them the bonus to fnp. Increase radius maybe? Do they take up a force org slot, or is it only the scarab swarms in the troop selection that don't? I can see myself using a bunch of these, but the portals would be nice as well.

10) Pylon - again, not quite feeling it. Low points, can take several, and reasonably tough for the points. But immobile, and only have a 6" range for something with terrible AP, that's a large blast, which usually means it can drift, including backwards. 6" means it's easy to avoid it's danger zone, so the only thing its going to excel at is dumping several onto an objective, and forcing the opponent to clear you off. It just doesn't seem worthy of the same name as the pylon from the apocalypse book, with its long range SD weaponry.

As I said before, the gun is not important, they are AV12 portals, nothing more. Would 100p be a better cost?



11) Relocation matrix - so, no combat resolution? Mixed blessing, lose horribly and phase out to come back later, cheating your opponent of the ability to run you down. Do well, but need to get across the board to claim an objective, the opponent doesn't have to worry about running. But it really messes with the normal flow of combat, more than just about anything else I've seen, including the Mawlocs deepstrike attack and the mystics designating a target. While relatively simple, it might be best to leave it till after combat resolution, and having it let them do something similar to hit and run, with the fade from the table move. Or a saving grace, so if they get run down they can fade away and still come back. Otherwise, it's a nice mechanic for getting across the board relatively quickly to grab those objectives, and has a downside, in that it's time the unit cant be shooting while they aren't on the table, and early game it may not be easy to come back. Of course round 5 they'll show up regardless, so at the end of your opponents round 4 if your went first, or their round 5 if they went first, everything disappears, and reappears on objectives, with no way to really stop them. Especially if they dropped half a dozen pylons and obelisks down on the objectives in the first place. Hmm, might be a bit underpriced. All in all though, still not sure if it's a suitable replacement for run. Particularly as long as the inquisitor and mystics are still out there.

They can only Deepstrike if they have the Deepstrike rule (ie Flayed One) or have bought it (ie Lord w/Shifting Mists). I will clarify that though. it was also ment to be that you had to role for reserves to get them back - 4+ on the turn after they pop, 3+ on the second turn after they pop etc.

Potentially usefull early game, much less so later in the game, helps keep cost down. Well enough I suppose.

12) On the note of the relocation matrix. Any chance of a piece of wargear for the lord that increases your reserve rolls? Maybe some wargear available for wraiths and/or other units (maybe a swarm unit, or the hounds or one of the vehicles) that acts as a teleport homer?

Yeah, I think I'll add a +1 to reseves item. Any ideas for a name?

13) Solar pulse, is it a one time thing, or all game? And I did like the ability to negate night fighting for a round. Helpfull in all the dawn of war battles...

On all the time

14) Gauss Stripper - Sounds neat. One of the more interesting ideas, conceptually, I've seen for the 'crons in a while. Not sure I'd like it as a TO though, as you'd be removing terrain off the table left and right, and then I'd have to come back and set it up again after you. As a player, I'd really consider bringing 2. Relatively cheap, and all of a sudden, there's no cover on the board, and no terrain to hamper my movement. Objective on the 4th floor of this ruin, well, ruin is gone, now it's on the ground. Don't need 5 rounds of climbing up there to claim it anymore. (Would have been less, but I'm S&P and can't run.) Or does such an objective go away as well? That would really irk the opponent, hit them, take away their cover, do some damage to them, and remove the objective they were sitting on from the game. I like it.

Nah, objectives stay their, dropping to the floor if needed. If the terrian itself is the objective (for a non-rulebook game) then it is removed.

15) Destroyer body - is it +1T like it currently is, so I can put a bronze lord on one and he'll be immune to instant death from double toughness, or will it be 5(6) for him, so a demolisher can take him out with one shot? I'm assuming from the destroyers that it's the latter.

Its TX(X+1) like normal. I will clarify that.
FYI, Bronze lords cannot take bodies

16) Silver Lord, and I've seen a couple others, where they don't seem to have a destroyer body, but have their T listed in the format of [x(x+1)]. Any particular reason?

So their vunerable to ID at S10, but T6 vs small arms. On the Silver Lord in particular, it was because I wanted it to be slightly weaker than the Gold Lord, without putting the Gold Order over T6.

Might make it a bit confusing to give the silver lord a destroyer body then. Does he become T5(7) or T6(7)?

17) Immortals - Wouldn't mind revisiting the cost of them. They cost almost as much as pariahs, and have less special rules to them, and aren't as rough and tumble in CC. I'll admit you boosted them up from where they were, but yikes.

They go up 4 points from the old dex (in which they were one of the best units):
-1WS
S&P

+1BS
+1S
+1T
+1Shot

I'd say its worth it

18) Conversely - 10 pt swarms, number up to 20 bases, and not taking up a FOC, might be a bit underpriced. 60 wounds that move like jetbikes, so they'll have the best chance at getting off the charge, up to 80 attacks on the charge (if the opponent is extremely unlucky at hitting them), and is going to take anything that isn't a squad full of thunderhammers or powerfists a long time to wittle through. Thinking that either 10 pts per is too low, they need fewer models, or that they will need to take up a FOC. My opinion of course.

Shall I just get rid of this line: "They cannot hold objectives, or count as compulsory choices, but do not take up FOC slots."?
This leaves them able to contest, but not hold (Swarms), count as Troops choice, but you can have them for 1 of the compusary slots

19) Wouldn't mind seeing some sort of gun platform in the heavies. It's usually where you have the things that deal with opponents armor and heavies, but with gauss working not as necessary. But something that you could choose weapon options on, maybe to drop small blasts on foes at good range, lots of shots (pinning maybe, weapons of terror from the undead guys...), or something with lance or at least AP1 on it.

GHC is S9 AP1 H1 and the GC is S6 AP3 H3
What would you arm a HS gun with?

On the spyder. Yeah, guess I can see it. Just looking at the fluff, and the bit about technology that is supposed to have outstripped everyone else, and still does, then looking at other codexes with man portable blast and template weaponry, melta and plasma that will penetrate any body armor no questions asked, S10 weaponry, lance weapons, etc., and thinking they seem to be missing the superior firepower aspect of advanced technology somehow.

Otherwise, rather interesting, I'd be happy to test it out, once the local tourney I'm prepping for has passed. Don't want to get actual rules mixed up with proposed rules right before the event...

So, does the wraith body confer the 3+/3++ on a lord that takes it? How about the +1T for being a 'jetbike'? Yes, I'm looking at a nasty, if expensive wraith lord.

Additionally, will master of war's +1 to reserves work with the relocation matrix roll to come back later, and is it cumulative if you take more than one?

K, that was sneaky. Started making a list, had a good all wraith army going, was looking to shave off a couple points to bring it down in points slightly, to fit at 1750 instead of 1755 (my hq selections were expensive), when I noticed the 1+ under warriors. With multiple troop choices available now, can we do away with warriors being mandatory. It'd make thematic lists much easier.