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Gavo wrote:Anyone else feeling the insta-pen on a 6 is a bit OP for gauss weapons?

Why? Pen-1 is exactly the same as the 4th Ed Glance, which is what Necrons got when GW wrote their 'dex

Gavo wrote:Anyone else feeling the insta-pen on a 6 is a bit OP for gauss weapons?

It's not instant pen? You roll the rend dice on the penetration roll anyways. so, you'de be rolling a 10 anyways. the rend adds on average 1-2. (1.5), which will pen rhinos. Seeing as SM H Bolters will pen rhinos on a 6, it aint so bad. Hell, Tau guns pen on a 6.

crazypsyko666 wrote:I like what I've read of it, but there are a few things I would change. I would make them not capable of running,

They cannot - The Necron rule prevents models from running. All non-necron models are tanks or Jetbikes, so cannot run anyway. Only Pariahs can rule (to make them more viable, as they cannot portal etc)

and I would change the names of the lords to something more aesthetic, like 'Elder lord' for one of the older ones rather than something color-specific, and have the fluff explain the coloring (making them easy to recognize and more fun to model)

I'm just using the fluff from the Apoc book, which mentions coloured lords

As for rules, I'd reduce the S of everything by 1 and no lower than 4. Wraiths seem very unbalanced, being extremely OP. I'd lower the save, S and T and keep the initiative at its relatively high level (maybe even reduce it by one.)

The stats lineup I'd like to see for it is WS4 BS0 S4 T5 W1 I6 (5?) A3 Ld10 Sv5+ Cost 37
I say this because they have a ridiculously high number of attacks for their initiative and cost (not to mention they're characteristically slow) can FLY, and have rending.

Gee, it's almost like they have the same I and A as genestealers....
S6 is staying, its from the old 'dex. Also, I really dont see why they should have the lowest T in the book (if they were made 4(5))

Save down to 4+/3++?

Using my handy-dandy mathhammer calculator, a slightly more expensive squad of four GK terminators and a BC are fighting in CC against five Wraiths. Given the increased mobility of the Wraiths, I'd think it's fair to say the Wraiths would get the charge. 25x5=100 attacks. (3 base, +1 for extra CCW, +1 for charge.)

Yeah, don't take offence at this, but I dont trust the mathhammer of someone who cannot work out 25*5 (its 125...). Also, 5 Wriaths get 25 attacks on the charge.

That calculates to 63 expected hits, 52 expected wounds, and 4 expected casualties. The Brother Captain then attacks. he is expected to hit 1.5 targets, wound .75, and then have .04 failed saves. Now, on the off-chance the terminators get the charge, they are expected to get one kill out of all of them. This is a more expensive unit, and in a more restricted slot dealing significantly less damage than the same number of wraiths for less points.

Wraiths charge GKT:
Kill 2.77

8 attacks back (4 from 1 1/3 Termies, 4 from BC)
Kill 0.89

If the GKT charge Wraiths:
Wraiths kill 2.2

9 attacks back (5 from 1 2/3 Termies, 4 from BC)
Kill 1.01


Obvoiusly, the GKT could just, you know, shoot them or something

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Nachturnus wrote:

Gavo wrote:Anyone else feeling the insta-pen on a 6 is a bit OP for gauss weapons?

It's not instant pen? You roll the rend dice on the penetration roll anyways. so, you'de be rolling a 10 anyways. the rend adds on average 1-2. (1.5), which will pen rhinos. Seeing as SM H Bolters will pen rhinos on a 6, it aint so bad. Hell, Tau guns pen on a 6.

HBolters and Pulse weapons glance AV11 on a 6




Did either of you read the Gauss rules?
It states that on a "6" on the armour pen. dice (roll to hit, roll to pen armour), the tank suffers a penerating hit with a minus 1 modifer to the damage table (which makes it identicle to the 4th ed Glance table). No Gauss weapon has the rending USR.

Gauss – Against any model with an armour value a roll of a ‘6’ on armour penetration results in a penetrating hit, taken at a -1 modifier. If a ‘6’ would cause a penetrating hit anyway, it does not suffer the -1 modifier.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingCracker wrote:Oooo thats cool. Kind of like an ED209 then? But with Guass heavy cannons lol. This is peaking my interest

Eh, Id say it would be a bit more humanoid, and actuly have a "chest" area.
But certainly gun arms like that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:I like the new changes, the only thing I'd change is the names to fit more with how the Necrons are themed.

Like, instead of Myrmidon, a Necron Pharaoh

or instead of "the hounds" which doesn't sound very Necrony, Sphinxes.

I was trying to avoid anything so overtly Egyption. Certainly, I think Pharaoh isn't a good name, especily since it isnt a commander unit.
Myrmidon means "ant-people" from the greek mythology, and came to mean robot due to said warriors loyalty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myrmidons

The Hound was something that was suggested in the last thread, taken from the book by the same title, bu H P Lovecraft.

Please note that I'm not saying renaming is a bad idea (although Pharaoh is IMO), I'm just defending my reasoning.

Hounds just doesn't sound like something you would find in a Necron army. The name just doesn't fit, IMO.

To each his own about Pharaoh. I thought it would be neat to see a Necron walker, with the headdress that pharaohs had, would be a neat looking model.

Sorry about that, I seem to have mis-remembered the Gauss rules. For some reason it got stuck in my head that all the gauss weapons were rending. probably from one fo the many new rumors about the new GW dex.

I'm going back to edit the nightbringer.

Sasori wrote:Hounds just doesn't sound like something you would find in a Necron army. The name just doesn't fit, IMO.

To each his own about Pharaoh. I thought it would be neat to see a Necron walker, with the headdress that pharaohs had, would be a neat looking model.

I must admit I am one of the people who wants to move away from "Tomb Kings in SPACE!!" Necrons, so making stuff less Egyption infulnced.

I think Living metal is OP. This would mean for a monolith Vs Space Marines:

100 LasCannon shots

66 Hits - Requires a 5 or 6 to damage

22 Damages 11 glance 11 pen

1/2 of that is saved by living metal so 6 Glance, 6 pen (being nice and rounding up) needs a 5 or 6 on pen to kill the monolith so 2 kills

Here we see the chance of a Lascannon - Fired by space marines, has only a 2% chance to kill the monolith. If thats not OP I don't know what is.

Its better than GW version vs anything w/o 2D6/lance, but worse vs melta weapons/MCs
Please bare in mind the Mono costs 300 points and contributes nothing to the phase out total.

a 4+ invul/cover save is op on the monolith?

its exactly the same if you just stored a land raider in some thick area cover. It's actually weaker than the current living metal rule, seeing as MCs, meltas (which are the new spam after all), chain fists, and weapons that you're actually supposed to kill monoliths with penetrate the majority of the time.

EX: Terminator Sargeant with chainfist:

Three attacks on the charge.

Str 8 + avg 7 on the pen, means 15. That's a penetrating hit. On average this means you'll get two penetrating hits per assault per chainfist. the mono saves one. in two turns of melee, you'de likely blow up the mono, even with the save. All it takes is another 5 points to guarantee that it'd die in 1-2 turns.

Ex:

5x Fire Dragons:

In melta range, they succeed on a roll of 2+. this means 0-1 misses. This means that 4-3.5 glance/pen, and around 3 penetrate. the AP 1 means you get one dead monolith without save.

Lascannons, as you well know, are one of the worst weapons for killing AV14 as of now in 40k. MCs and other crap are infinitely better.

The whole dex seems pretty good to me but i'm confused about a couple of things.

Your cron rules say that they get relentless but then you give the units slow and steady so im confused about that.

The stats for most of them is good even though i still think that Wraiths should get PWs and flayed should get rending.

I still not clear on the pylon and obelisk but that is all that im confused about.

As being a fan of necrons but seeing any "special" units i would like to see special characters, sure you can say "essence of ____" is special but more unique like "Necron Lord Bob and special things like survived old ones and stuff", sorta like the tyranids cause they have special characters.

wolfworriors wrote:The whole dex seems pretty good to me but i'm confused about a couple of things.

Your cron rules say that they get relentless but then you give the units slow and steady so im confused about that.

All Necrons have relentless - only some units have S&P. Its simply to standardise the ruleset.

The stats for most of them is good even though i still think that Wraiths should get PWs and flayed should get rending.

No PW on Wraiths. It makes them too strong.

I still not clear on the pylon and obelisk but that is all that im confused about.

Not clear in what way?
The Obby is a cheaper, less well armoured, immobile monalith
The Pylon is basicly a DSing Portal

As being a fan of necrons but seeing any "special" units i would like to see special characters, sure you can say "essence of ____" is special but more unique like "Necron Lord Bob and special things like survived old ones and stuff", sorta like the tyranids cause they have special characters.

Care to make any suggestions?

on the pylon and obelisk do they have the living metal thing as the old monolith or just the armor and isnt the pylon bassically 1 time use because the range of the gun is really close.

You can make the Wraiths cost 50 points each then.

As for the Special Characters i'm working on it.

On the repair swarm shouldnt it be a wargear instead of making it a unit?

wolfworriors wrote:on the pylon and obelisk do they have the living metal thing as the old monolith or just the armor and isnt the pylon bassically 1 time use because the range of the gun is really close.

@ Living Metal: You could try reading the codex....
All Necron tanks (TSpiders, Mono, Obby, Pylon) have living metal, which funcions as a 4+ save.

@Pylon: The point of the pylon is NOT a one shot gun platform. Its a boosting unit. It is the cheapest (in terms of both points and HS slots) of getting Portals on the board. The C'tan Scream is just a by-the-by addition that will probably not be used, but acts as weak Particle Whip.

You can make the Wraiths cost 50 points each then.

even at 50p, its still to good.

As for the Special Characters i'm working on it.

On the repair swarm shouldnt it be a wargear instead of making it a unit?

I dont see why? - this way it provides a very powerful bonus, but the enemy can negate it by attcking the unit. If it were wargear, it would be icreadibly powerful. Look how much the Phalacty costs, and that affects ONE (1) model..

oh didn't see that on the living metal woops.

So the pylon is meant to just stand there and brings warriors and back to life and to bring ones closer to the fight right? ok.

I'm a fan of wraiths but since they don't have power weapons I don't kill the enemy even if it's a normal IG. I get most of my wraith attacks and wounds but i kill little to nothing.

The Lord of Death: 275.
The lord of death was one of the first Necrontyr to turn into a Necron and since he was a favored of the C’tan he was made into a Necron Lord. He has fought countless battles against the Old Ones and survived throughout all his encounters. Now he has awoken and is going to harvest the galaxy.
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
8 5 6 6 4 6 5 10 2+, 4++
Special Rules: Necron, Lord of Death, Unstoppable, Terrifying Visage,
Lord of Death: The Lord of Death has some powered imbued by the Nightbringer to bring death to all those who attack him: All models in assault with the Lord of Death has a -1 to their W (minimum of 1), one per game you can make it so that all his attacks hit and wounded the enemy unit, because this power takes a lot of energy out of him his T is reduced by 1 and he has to take his invulnerable save even if he could take his normal save for the rest of this turn.
Unstoppable: The Lord of Death can reroll any failed Saves but must use his 4++ save if he used his 2+ save the first time and he must roll a 5+ if he used his 4++ the first time.
Wargear: Phylactery, Phase Shifter, Shifting Mass, Veil of Darkness, Scythe of Death, CCW
Scythe of Death: The Scythe of Death counts as a Warscythe but is one handed and has a Gauss Blaster instead of a Gauss Flayer.

wolfworriors wrote:

This SC is insanely overpowered for it's points cost, which is the maximum cost allowable for infantry units, and thus he needs some serious nerfage if he is to be balanced against the current state of the game. For comparison, I'm going to match his stats and abilities up against those of the single most powerful Non-MC combat HQ in the game, Abaddon the Despoiler

The Lord of Death: 275.
This is the same point cost as Abaddon


WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
8 5 6 6 4 6 5 10 2+, 4++


Abaddon, the Despoiler
WS 7 BS 5 S 4(8) T 4(5) W 4 I 6 A 4* LD 10 SV 2+, 4++

Okay, the stat lines are fairly similar. The Lord has higher WS and higher permanent toughness, whereas abaddon has more strength (when using drach'nyen), and can get up to 10 attacks, as he has the daemon weapon special rule.

Special Rules: Necron, Lord of Death, Unstoppable, Terrifying Visage.

Lord of Death: The Lord of Death has some powered imbued by the Nightbringer to bring death to all those who attack him: All models in assault with the Lord of Death has a -1 to their W (minimum of 1), one per game you can make it so that all his attacks hit and wounded the enemy unit, because this power takes a lot of energy out of him his T is reduced by 1 and he has to take his invulnerable save even if he could take his normal save for the rest of this turn.

Unstoppable: The Lord of Death can reroll any failed Saves but must use his 4++ save if he used his 2+ save the first time and he must roll a 5+ if he used his 4++ the first time.


This is where it gets ridiculous.

Abaddon has: Deepstrike, relentless (from terminator armor), Eternal Warrior (from mark of chaos ascendant), Fearless, Independent Character.

The LoD has Deepstrike, and the ability to come through portals (necron rule), Imunity to s3 weapons and eternal warrior (from T 6), FnP (on a 3+ because of the free phylactery), The ability to re-roll any failed armor/invul saves at a marginal penalty (for example, the chances of the lord failing a save against 2+ armor is 15%, and then he gets to roll a 4+ invul? 8% chance to get through his saves, and after that he can just FNP on a 3+, which reduces the chance to wound him once to 2-3%). This doesn't account for the fact that he's T 6, and thus is extremely difficult to wound.This is by far and away his most broken and unworkable ability.

Once per game, you can make him instantly kill any unit in the game. (5 attacks that automatically wound? That literally kills EVERYTHING. I think there is 1 trygon variant that doesn't die immediately to that.) His weapons ignore all saves, including FNP. This is obviously a little broken as well, as he can do this at I 6, and thus is able to vaporize two-to-three hundred points worth of IC on the first turn of combat. Who the hell cares that he has T 5 for the rest of turn? he still only gets a wound 1/50 times anything actually wounds him.

In addition to these extremely OP abilities, he also has relentless, he counts as a becon for deepstrike, he has stubborn, -1 LD to all units in melee with him, and lets not forget that his unkillable highness also counts as a necron for phase out. Hell, I'de take an army of him, a bunch of tomb spiders and other non-necron stuff, and two squads of warriors hiding in a monolith. the enemy would never EVER kill this guy, so you would never phase out.


Wargear: Phylactery, Phase Shifter, Shifting Mass, Veil of Darkness, Scythe of Death, CCW

Scythe of Death: The Scythe of Death counts as a Warscythe but is one handed and has a Gauss Blaster instead of a Gauss Flayer.


Abaddon may reroll to-wound saves (talon of horus), and gains bonus attacks and double strength from his daemon weapon. Drach'Nyen also wounds abaddon, no saves allowed, on a 1, just like every other daemon weapon. His only ranged weapon is a Twin linked Bolter.

And because he wasn't uber-powerful already, LoD has some op wargear stuff too.

Phylactery: Crucial in reducing the paltry 8% chance for wounds to actually penetrate to a mere 2-3%, as is the phase shifter's 4++ invul. Shifting Mists grants the IC and his unit Deepstrike with re-roll on the scatter. Veil of darkness means that he can deepstrike where ever he wants, whenever he wants, and because of Mists, he gets to re-roll the scatter, on the off chance he might get a mishap.

The scythe is broken as hell. firstly, it's a 1 handed weapon that ignores ALL DEFENSIVE SAVES, including FnP. In addition, it grants him a S 6 Monstrous creature attack at I 6, meaning he will, on average, penetrate AV12 EVERY HIT, and almost always go first in melee. In addition, it's got an underslung Heavy Bolter, which he counts as an assault weapon because of relentless. He's got an offhand CCW for some reason, but seeing as all offhand weapons are now included in stat profiles, i'm not sure why this is here, unless you forgot to add it into his profile, thus giving him 6 attacks.

This unit is far too powerful for 275 points, as it outperforms every unit in the game in terms of both firepower, armor penetrance, reliable mobility, and staying-power.

Just for comparison's sake, let me drop in the stat line off the 360 point MC The Nightbringer.

LoD
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
8 5 6 6 4 6 5 10 2+, 4++

The Nightbringer
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 4 10 8 5 4 5 10 4++

The LoD clearly has a better statline, especially when considering he's 90 points cheaper, and not an MC. The LoD can also hide inside of a squad of cheap units with FNP, thus making him even harder to kill, unlike the Nightbringer, who is an MC and thus always a target. This completely disregards the fact that the night bringer only has his toughness and invul save (as opposed to the 3% wound penetrance on the LoD that was discussed earlier) and thus dies way faster, as well as the fact that the LoD can waltz into melee combat with the night bringer, and just blow him apart with his special rule.

You need to seriously retool this character. The total value of his necron wargear alone is about 100 points worth of gear, meaning that his over powered special abilities, special weapon, improved statline, The underslung heavy bolter, and other stats are being bought at a price of 15 points. (A gold lord with all his gear costs 260 points, ish.) This unit, if it were to remain as-is, would be apoc only, and cost something like 500-600 points, putting it on the level of superheavy tanks and knight titans.

Ok i talked to my brother about it also.
Ill get rid of the reroll saves,
makes scythe 2 handed
his wound thing i would make that all hits are autmatic wounds (once per game) he takes -2 T and uses his 4++ for the turn.
ill make his strength 5.
should i reduce his initative to 5 also?

wolfworriors wrote:Ok i talked to my brother about it also.
Ill get rid of the reroll saves
Yes.

makes scythe 2 handed
yes

his wound thing i would make that all hits are autmatic wounds (once per game) he takes -2 T and uses his 4++ for the turn.
remove this ability entirely. instantly killing any given model in one turn, no matter what, is op as hell. I'de suggest, if you want something like this, instead say that the necron lord can direct all his attacks against a single enemy model in combat. If he chooses to do this, the model may choose to direct all of it's attacks in close combat against the lord, and resolve both of the attacks at the lowest initiative (to prevent the lord vaproizing the unit before it can fight back. This targeting ability is incredibly powerful, but will not just instantly annihilate the enemy model.

ill make his strength 5.
should i reduce his initative to 5 also?
his statline needs to be the same as normal lords, so reducing his strength, toughness, and initiative below gold lord levels seems silly. I would suggest removing around 1/2 of his wargear. Also, if you chose to make him more melee oriented (as the special rule i mentioned above would suggest), get rid of the underslung heavy bolter on his scythe, and give him something like, a single S 6, Ap 3 rending shot at 12 inches as he charges into combat.

The Lord of Death: 275.
The lord of death was one of the first Necrontyr to turn into a Necron and since he was a favored of the C’tan he was made into a Necron Lord. He has fought countless battles against the Old Ones and survived throughout all his encounters.
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
8 5 6 6 4 6 5 10 2+, 4++
Special Rules: Necron, Lord of Death, Unstoppable, Terrifying Visage,
Lord of Death: The Lord of Death has some powered imbued by the Nightbringer to decide which enemy will die in combat. The Lord of Death may single out a model in assault with him and may direct all of his attacks against him and the target may choose to target the Lord only also. Both of the attacks will both be resolved at Initiative 1 and neither can raise the initiative.
Wargear: Phase Shifter, Shifting Mass, Veil of Darkness, Scythe of Death
Scythe of Death: The Scythe of Death counts as a Warscythe but instead of a gauss flayer it has a special gun that has the following stats:
Range: 12’’ S: 6 Ap: 3 Assault 1 Rending.

k changed him.

wolfworriors wrote:oh didn't see that on the living metal woops.

So the pylon is meant to just stand there and brings warriors and back to life and to bring ones closer to the fight right? ok.

I'm a fan of wraiths but since they don't have power weapons I don't kill the enemy even if it's a normal IG. I get most of my wraith attacks and wounds but i kill little to nothing.

Wraiths (current GW) are shoot kill any GEQ unit (non-assault dedicated). They are also very good for anti-tank, due to S6 vs rear armour. They funcion well enough to tie up MEQ squads.
If you cannot kill IG w/o a PW, then you cannot roll well. A charging Wraith should kill 1.5 guardsmen.

In my version, they have an extra attack (2 CCW) and Rending. This means they kill 2 IG (1.5 before) or 1 Marine (0.5 before) on the charge.
Rending also means that they can hurt ANY tank in the game


Besides, they are NOT ment to be assault terminators. They are a good CC unit, but trade numbers and pure offensive power for extremly fast movement. They do NOT take on enemy anvil units and win. They use their speed to flank the enemy, and pull down his shooting/support units.
Remeber the 1st rule of 40k: Shoot the Choppy and Chop the Shooty

On the whole i reallylike it.

Giving Wraiths rending makes them more viable without being OP. They are some of my fave units and i would LOVE them do more useful.

I also like unifying the destroyers into a unit with the heavy cannon as an add-on.

i knid of miss WBB as it lent a special flavour to the army, but they will still have the relentles, slow marching wall of death image about them.

With regards to the LoD above. If he has decent initiative and a warscythe...why would he need any more help in CC. With I4 (for example) he woudl hit at the same time as SM and ignore all saves. What ore coudl you ask for? Any IC that can stare down soemthign liek a 'fex and walk away has got to be good enough! I woudl give him the statline around an Immortal, with the 4+ invul and a warscythe (with the flayer/blaster built in). Add on a DS or army buff ability and you are laughing! thsi way you coudl also lower the points quite a bit.



Finally the Mrymidon. LOVE it. When i read it i instantly thought of a Necron-esque Deff Dread. if it were me i woudl mount the guns on the shoulders to give it a looming, hulking look.

I propose: Make the Nightbringer 36 pts a piece, and allow him to join 9 other nightbringers as a squad of 10 and move like jetbikes. give them 2+ invul saves and free 5 man pariah escorts for zero points and 5 for each nightbringer in the squad.

Praxiss wrote:
With regards to the LoD above. If he has decent initiative and a warscythe...why would he need any more help in CC. With I4 (for example) he woudl hit at the same time as SM and ignore all saves. What ore coudl you ask for? Any IC that can stare down soemthign liek a 'fex and walk away has got to be good enough! I woudl give him the statline around an Immortal, with the 4+ invul and a warscythe (with the flayer/blaster built in). Add on a DS or army buff ability and you are laughing! thsi way you coudl also lower the points quite a bit.

The issue with the statline is that he is based off of the Necron Gold lord (this is essentially the hero gold lord, equivalent to how the swarmlord is the hero hive tyrant0, but costs upwards of a hundred and fifteen points more. That's why i was telling his creator he needed to change the abilities and reduce the wargear. If you have your own idea for a piriah SC, go ahead and post him. we need more ideas.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:I propose: Make the Nightbringer 36 pts a piece, and allow him to join 9 other nightbringers as a squad of 10 and move like jetbikes. give them 2+ invul saves and free 5 man pariah escorts for zero points and 5 for each nightbringer in the squad.

Knock it off with your hard-on for the nightbringer

K made another SC which is a flayed one.

The Butcher: 200
The Butcher is a flayed one that has versed every race there is and has survived against them all and has gotten a token from each race.
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 0 5 5 2 5 3 10 3+ 5++

Special Rules: Terrifying Visage, Necron, Move through cover, Deep strike, infiltrate and butcher.
Butcher: The Butcher is known to slaughter any who he assaults so he gains the furious assault rule and any enemy unit in assault with him must pass a leadership test or count as having WS 1 for the turn.
Wargear: 2 CCW, distruption field and Hide of a Thousand Enemies.
Hide of a Thousand Enemies: The Butcher flays all those he kills but only takes the strongest and toughest ones and places them on him, the amount of flesh he has on him protects him from enemy attacks giving him a 5++ save.

I'm not entirely sold on the idea of Necron SC's (same as Tyranids, I think they appear better themeaticly if its a single homodgenous mass)

However:
The Butcher of Areshh
The once human people of Areshh were decended from the crew of the IN Resolution, a Light Cruiser that, crippled by the forces of the Great Enemy in M35. Without hope of rescue, becalmed in interstella space, they happened accross an anceant relic, floating in the void. They named in Areshh, after their Captain, and lived in its cavernous maze for nearly 4000 years, decending into barbarism.
However, unbeknowced to them, Areshh was in fact a Tomb Ship, and, reciving damaged units from the destrution of a Jackel several ligh years away, reawakened. The humans were graduly hunted down through the twisted interior by the shuffling, untouchable machines, who clothed themselves in the hides of the dead. At their head was a single, terrible specimin. Over one hundered human champions swore to bring down this beast, but none, no matter their strengh, their cunning or the use of the anceint relic-weapons taken from the long dead Resolution, could stand before it. The last thing the remaining humans saw as they made their last stand in their now living corridors, was the Butcher of Areshh, at the head of its breathren and flanked by new organometalic constructs, striding down upon them

A single Flayed One unit of at least 10 models may upgrade a model to The Butcher of Areshh for 60 points

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 0 5(6) 5 2 6 3 10 4+

The Butcher of Areshh is armed with Monoatomic Blades, Flayed Mantle and a Disruption Field.
It has the Necron, Abhorrent Visage, Move Through Cover, Deep Strike and Infiltrate Special Rules

Monoatomic Blades: The long, surgical blades weilded by The Butcher have been long hond to a monoatomic sharpness. They count as 2 CCW, that grant +1S and the Rending (5+) USR.
Flayed Mantle: The Butcher wears a cloak, made from the flayed hides of the hunderd champions who were sent to fight it. It grants a 5+ Inv save in close combat.
Abhorrent Visage: The Butcher's presence is heralded by an aura so desolate, that before it, even mighty warriors can only bow their heads and wait for their inevitable fate. This inflicts a -1Ld modifer to any enemy unit in an assault with The Butcher (culmative with the units Terrifing Visage). In addition, any model attempting to direct their attacks agaist The Butcher must pass a Ld test (inculding negative modifers). If they fail, their attacks are reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1, and they strike at WS1.





Also, how do people think the Essance thing should work - should they be SC's or upgrades to GoldLords?

I like the butcher. He seems to fit well, points and abilities wise. you might want to give him prefered enemy, as in his description you mention that he has fought all of the varying races.


The Bloody Fleshbender:

Long ago the deceiver imbued a brilliant Necrontyr assassin with the ability to change his appearance at will. When the Necrontyr were damned to their metalic existance the Fleshbender, as he had come to be called, was instead uploaded into a pool of living metal, preserving his ability to change and magnifying it to never before seen levels. The Fleshbender has spent the last million years learning to download the memories and behaviors of his victims, resulting in him being able to impersonate anything from an Eldar Aspect Warrior to a Tactical Space marine.


PTS: 210

WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:6 W:2 I:5 A:4 Ld:10 Sv: 3++

Special Rules: The Fleshbender, Prefered Enemy, Necron.

The Fleshbender: This unit does not deploy at the start of the mission, but is instead kept in reserves. At the beginning of the game a D6 is rolled; if the result is 5+, Fleshbender may deploy within any enemy infantry squad (excluding special characters or ICs). On a 3+ it may deploy within a fast attack squad or infantry squad. On any other roll the Fleshbender must deploy only within troops choices. When The Fleshbender may be deployed from reserves, the metallic tendrils explodes forth from his disguise, both destroying a model in the squad of the squad owner's choosing, and letting forth a C'Tan scream with the template centered on himself. All units surrounding the flesh bender move a minimum of 1 inch away from him, and if the unit was embarked in a transport, the units must all debark before the template is placed, as they attempt to escape the mind-shattering wail.

Wargear: Necrodermis Construction, Metal Tendrils, C'Tan Scream

Necrodermis Construction: The fleshbender's body is made of unnaturally shifting living metal, and is thus nearly impossible to damage, granting him a 3+ invulnerable save. This also allows the Fleshbender to fire a Twin Linked Gauss Flayer during his shooting phase. The Fleshbender may always use his C'Tan scream, even when locked in Melee combat, and is immune to the effects of any C'Tan scream, friendly or otherwise.

Metal Tendrils: The Fleshbender's attacks Ignore armor saves.

Nachturnus wrote:I like the butcher. He seems to fit well, points and abilities wise. you might want to give him prefered enemy, as in his description you mention that he has fought all of the varying races.

Not in my fluff :p

I didn't think it was really realistic that any being, no matter how old, could have fought every single race in the galaxy.
In mine, he just fights a bunch of savage humans who live(d) on a Tomb Ship. It also fits better with his stat line (T5 W2 4+/5++), as they would have had nothing better than crue swords/axes and their "relic-weapons"

Spoiler:

(Navel Pistols and the like)

to fight it with.

The Bloody Fleshbender:

Long ago the deceiver imbued a brilliant Necrontyr assassin with the ability to change his appearance at will. When the Necrontyr were damned to their metalic existance the Fleshbender, as he had come to be called, was instead uploaded into a pool of living metal, preserving his ability to change and magnifying it to never before seen levels. The Fleshbender has spent the last million years learning to download the memories and behaviors of his victims, resulting in him being able to impersonate anything from an Eldar Aspect Warrior to a Tactical Space marine.


PTS: 210

WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:6 W:2 I:5 A:4 Ld:10 Sv: 3++

Special Rules: The Fleshbender, Prefered Enemy, Necron.

The Fleshbender: This unit does not deploy at the start of the mission, but is instead kept in reserves. At the beginning of the game a D6 is rolled; if the result is 5+, Fleshbender may deploy within any enemy infantry squad (excluding special characters or ICs). On a 3+ he may deploy within a fast attack squad or infantry squad. On any other roll the Fleshbender must deploy only within troops choices. When he may be successfully called from reserves, the Fleshbender explodes forth from his disguise, both destroying a model in the squad of the squad owner's choosing, and letting forth a C'Tan scream with the template centered on himself. All units surrounding the flesh bender move a minimum of 1 inch away from him, and if the unit was embarked in a transport, the units must all debark before the template is placed, as they attempt to escape the mind-shattering wail.

Wargear: Necrodermis Construction, Metal Tendrils, C'Tan Scream

Necrodermis Construction: The fleshbender's body is made of unnaturally shifting living metal, and is thus nearly impossible to damage, granting him a 3+ invulnerable save. This also allows the Fleshbender to fire a Twin Linked Gauss Flayer during his shooting phase. The Fleshbender may also use his C'Tan scream when locked in Melee combat.

Metal Tendrils: The Fleshbender's attacks Ignore armor saves.

T1000 by any chance?

Its funny, but I had an idea about a 'pop out of enemy squad' model, although it will be part of the Essance of the Deciver, as the traitor in the midst reveals themselves.


You need to put in that it doesn't hit itself with the C'tan Scream.
Also, firing it in combat - you cannot target models in CC, so its a bit useless. If you mean it can place it over itself, like when it is revelead, then its way too good.

Finally, it should be an it, not a he

Yeah, I was basing the way his C'Tan scream works off of Nurgle's Rot, which allows for the caster to essentially cast it on themselves even when locked in assault. I'll edit in under necrodermis cosntruction that he is immune to the effects of C'Tan scream, friendly or otherwise. The idea behind it was to make it so that the Fleshbender's limited combat stats would not be a hinderance for him fighting the IG.

If he pops an assault terminator when he appears, he does 40 pts of dmg there already. if he pops a guardsman, that's like 6 points. 4 attacks isn't enough to combat a giant pile of guard or gaunts, so he needed something to make him more lethal. This guy is worthless against tanks, which was the intent though.

EDIT:

It's been edited.

Don't replace WBB with FNP.

WBB was made for a mix practicality(how killy it is) and asthetic(how it looks and feels) reasons.
FNP may improve on the practical reasons, but it completely removes the asthetic reasons.

Necrons name says it all. Necro, Death. Necrons are literally the Living Dead. The whole point of WBB is to show that no matter how many times you knock them down, no matter how hard you hit them, they will keep coming.

FNP gives Necrons 2 armour saves. There's no "HA! I KILLED IT" only to be followed by "WHAT? It's still alive?". There's just "ohh, failed an armour save? but made another".

I know people have a problem with WBB, but replacing it with FNP is not the way to fix it.

Drk_Oblitr8 wrote:
FNP gives Necrons 2 armour saves. There's no "HA! I KILLED IT" only to be followed by "WHAT? It's still alive?". There's just "ohh, failed an armour save? but made another".

FNP > WBB. End of story. Necron players need a serious buff to their units, one of which is the replacement of wbb with FNP. FNP is calculated when wounds are dealt, which means that the necron player doesn't do what often happens nowadays, where they suffer one turn of bad shooting (usually turn 3 or 4 by gigantic masses of guardsmen and the like) and then they phase out before the beginning of the next turn. Often times, this is done with large volumes of low strength weapons or templates/blasts, which would normally allow for WBB rolls, however because you go below 25%, that's the end of the game.

Necrons have a rough enough time already, changing WBB to FNP isn't just practical and useful, it's absolutely necessary.

Plus, FNP doesn't take away from the feeling of it, as it plays more into the terminatory feel of the units, where you can smash their arms and legs off in a car factory, but they refuse to die. They don't die and then suddenly crawl back together and stand back up. The necron are about being undying or undead, not about being pheonix-like ressurrectors

Nachturnus wrote:Yeah, I was basing the way his C'Tan scream works off of Nurgle's Rot, which allows for the caster to essentially cast it on themselves even when locked in assault. I'll edit in under necrodermis cosntruction that he is immune to the effects of C'Tan scream, friendly or otherwise. The idea behind it was to make it so that the Fleshbender's limited combat stats would not be a hinderance for him fighting the IG.

If he pops an assault terminator when he appears, he does 40 pts of dmg there already. if he pops a guardsman, that's like 6 points. 4 attacks isn't enough to combat a giant pile of guard or gaunts, so he needed something to make him more lethal. This guy is worthless against tanks, which was the intent though.

EDIT:

It's been edited.

It can hurt tanks, its S5 (rear 10 on most stuff) and a TL Gauss Flayer (so slightly better than a warrior)


I still say C'tan scream is too good. Its 6 6, compaired to N's Rot which is 3 -.
You could just give him an improved Lightning Field


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Don't replace WBB with FNP.

WBB was made for a mix practicality(how killy it is) and asthetic(how it looks and feels) reasons.
FNP may improve on the practical reasons, but it completely removes the asthetic reasons.

Necrons name says it all. Necro, Death. Necrons are literally the Living Dead. The whole point of WBB is to show that no matter how many times you knock them down, no matter how hard you hit them, they will keep coming.

FNP gives Necrons 2 armour saves. There's no "HA! I KILLED IT" only to be followed by "WHAT? It's still alive?". There's just "ohh, failed an armour save? but made another".

I know people have a problem with WBB, but replacing it with FNP is not the way to fix it.

One) Its pretty much certain that when the new GW dex rolls around, Necrons will have FNP
Two) WBB is full of holes, requires a lot of book keeping etc. So much easier (and better for the Necrons) to just take the saves there and then