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This is my attempt at creating a Necron codex fit for 5th. If follows on from a very old thread, but unlike the old thread (which was simply improving current units) I have tried to alter the feel of the army, and alter them from 'undead marines'.


Major changes to GW dex:
Necrons are no longer MEQs, and their stat line is far more varide between units than before.
Army wide Stubborn + Relentless
Necron Lords and Scarabs have been expanded into 3 entries apeice
Destroyers are compressed into a single unit
Tomb Spiders as walkers
4 new units (2 tanks, 2 MCs)
Most units are now BS5 or better, T5 or better, S&P.
FNP replaces WBB
Flayed Ones as troops
C'tan are removed (for now)
Loads of new wargear/weapons

I have tried to change the aesthetic of the Necron army, as currently they function as just another MEQ army. In my 'dex, although most units cannot run, and many are S&P, there is a lot more emphasis on teleporting/portaling for movement. Also, using wargear available to HQ and Elites choices, the Necron player is able to manipulate the table, adding and removing terrain, which should make for an interesting play style.

What do you use to open this? I tried a few programs and none of them worked.

Sasori wrote:What do you use to open this? I tried a few programs and none of them worked.

It's a .doc file so microsoft word or openoffice should work...at least microsoft word did on my computer.

Yep, its Microsoft Word. It a .doc, so should work on any version '97 to current.

Is there any chance you could do a PDF Version?

I would really Appreciate it.



EDIT:

Never mind, I just downloaded Open Office.

I like the myrmidon, as well as the enhanced rules about the HQ choices. I also don't really approve of the changes to warriors, just imo. 20 points for something that moves slow but doesn't have a 3+ seems too high, even with the necron special rules modified as you have them.

Khorne berserkers, noise marines, and normal space marines, all of which are more variable, adaptable, and useful than warriors all cost 21 points or less, and even with FNP, with the proliferation of ap2, melta, and battlecanons, fnp isn't half as good as it used to be.

This doesn't seem in keeping with the fluffy background for the 'crons, where they are supposed to be extremely tough to kill, and when you do manage to kill them, they have a tendency to stand back up and eat your face.

For the same reason, the FNP, even with the "always take feel no pain save" < WBB, and yet the point cost between your warriors and the 3rd ed ones.

I might suggest that, instead of making pylons and obelisks dirt cheap and flimsy (which isn't really all that in keeping with the 'cron lore of being indestructible) and one-deploy-per-game, you make them cost something reasonable and able to redeploy A la Cloak of Shadows.

Nachturnus wrote:I like the myrmidon, as well as the enhanced rules about the HQ choices. I also don't really approve of the changes to warriors, just imo. 20 points for something that moves slow but doesn't have a 3+ seems too high, even with the necron special rules modified as you have them.

Khorne berserkers, noise marines, and normal space marines, all of which are more variable, adaptable, and useful than warriors all cost 21 points or less, and even with FNP, with the proliferation of ap2, melta, and battlecanons, fnp isn't half as good as it used to be.

Battlecannons are S8 AP3, Warriors can take FNP agaist them.

Warrior to PM
Warrior-Pros: +1S, +1(True)T, Ld10 Stubborn, Guass, Relentless, 3 points cheaper, can use portal to redeploy/enter battle, can use portal/res orb/repair scarabs to increase their FNP
Warrior-Cons: -2WS, -2I, No Greandes, -1AS, No BP+CCW, special weapons and champ option

I think that, bareing in mind that PM are undercosted, 20 points is fair enough. After all, if you support them right, and they will be 4+/4+cover/3+FNP (always take) and healing D3 models a turn.

This doesn't seem in keeping with the fluffy background for the 'crons, where they are supposed to be extremely tough to kill, and when you do manage to kill them, they have a tendency to stand back up and eat your face.

Personly, I like WBB, but it is far to complecated and full of holes, so FNP is just easier

For the same reason, the FNP, even with the "always take feel no pain save" < WBB, and yet the point cost between your warriors and the 3rd ed ones.

I might suggest that, instead of making pylons and obelisks dirt cheap and flimsy (which isn't really all that in keeping with the 'cron lore of being indestructible) and one-deploy-per-game, you make them cost something reasonable and able to redeploy A la Cloak of Shadows.

You think they should go up to AV13 and 12 respecivly?

Black Antelope wrote:
Battlecannons are S8 AP3, Warriors can take FNP agaist them.

Warrior to PM
Warrior-Pros: +1S, +1(True)T, Ld10 Stubborn, Guass, Relentless, 3 points cheaper, can use portal to redeploy/enter battle, can use portal/res orb/repair scarabs to increase their FNP
Warrior-Cons: -2WS, -2I, No Greandes, -1AS, No BP+CCW, special weapons and champ option

I think that, bareing in mind that PM are undercosted, 20 points is fair enough. After all, if you support them right, and they will be 4+/4+cover/3+FNP (always take) and healing D3 models a turn.]

My mistake regarding the battle-canons, I thought your warriors were still T4. They seem a little more balanced with the T5 (as opposed to T4(5).)

You are correct about FNP being simpler than WBB though, that's for damn skippy, I think you might want to give phylactery an added bonus as well, possibly a passive +1 on the FNP dice throw, or possibly just give gold lords a passive +1 on their FNP. That way they are more than just a "lord wiff mo dakka" and access to a few more advanced frames I might suggest that monos be allowed to target units which have died that turn (the same as modern monos) for sucking them through the portal for free repairs

I think the pylons would be well served with that, especially as it will make the 'crons stand out. No one has anything with av-13, other than demolishers and soul grinders, and pylons would become a popular mechanic. I think you should bring back the part of living metal where it states that you cannot reduce the armor value, or the immunity to double-dice penetration. Not both. Double dice is more powerful, as it works on MCs, Meltas, and a number of other mechanics, as opposed to just lance, so i figure it'd need to be playtested to be adequately balanced.

I like your changes to the dex, and the hounds seem pretty baller imo. with a couple changes, I might consider testing these out among my friends, and see if it's too cheesy.

My single biggest concern is giving necrons Stubborn. Its just too power, fearless makes more sense and would be fine but LD 10 stubborn models with FNP that can be fielded in units of 20 is too much. Your basic squad becomes one of the best tarpit units in the game if not the best for a small price. Add in the ability to telport while in combat way too much for a basic troop.

Think about it fluff wise, stubborn units are so commited to their beliefs that nothing will impact their leadership, but they are still suseptible to the human/instinctual emotion of fear, they are commited to not breaking in the face of the enemy but even the most stalwart of humans may run in fear. On the otherhand fearless units do not have a capacity for whatever reason top feel fear. As most if not all necrons according to all the fluff are mindless automotons without autonomous thought (I think pariahs have a mind of their own) , LD 10 fearless makes allot more sense then having the resolve to be stubborn LD10.

Thats all. Fearless not stubborn. my 2 cents

Even with Fearless they would be if anything an even better tarpit, they'd get a 4+ and 3+ save for any fearless wounds!! Whilst you'd totally remove their only real weakness that of the sweeping advance. With T5 alround and T6 for kicks this list seems too OP to me. You made them tougher and more deadly while removing their only real weakness.

Just keep them at Ld10 and dump the peice of kit that allows re-rolls on the sweeping advance roll.

As the poster has pointed out above against the undercosted plague Marines they stand up well and are at least their equal for even fewer points! I mean the I difference is only 1 and stubborn is better than fearless and they get 2 shots up to 24" all the time!

They'd be better at shooting than Tau, better at surviving than PLague marines as almost as mobile as Eldar. Just too OP for me though I can see4 an attempt to give points values to compensate you've just made them brilliant at everything ans certain equipement is well undercosted #cough#nullfield#cough#...

Dumplingman:

The necrons are explicitly stated, in their codex, to maintain most advanced cognative processes, and thus they retain their leadership, because sometimes it's logical to retreat. Fearless better suits units that really just want to killkillkill regardless of what's best for their well being. That's why it's got the lose combat backlash, as well as why it's given primarily to units that are considered stupid or crazy, such as mini-nids, boyz, and khorne berserkers

So what would you price warriors at?

I will raise Nullfield to 20, but it's still easy to avoid its effects, just dont use a psy-shooting attack on the lord.
Chronometron to 20

Also, you can hardly say Warriors are good at everything.
For 20 points, anything with any sort of CC ability to crush em (PF anyone?) and it takes 4 of them to put a single wound on GEQ.
Their Anti-tank is medicore at best.
Another real weakness next to the PM is the lack of special weapons and Sergent upgrades (although the Bronze lord can compensate a bit for this). This is one of the main reasons FW and the like suck - they cannot adapt or specialise.
4th-ly, they lack the 3+ save of a PM (which is a biggy), as while they are less vunerable to S8/9, they are more vunerable to AP4. (A SM HBolter does .5 wounds to warriors, .17 wounds to PM)

QFT Antelope.

Sure they get a toughness, which makes them marginally harder to wound to most weapons, however they lose their ap3, which makes them substantially easier to kill, to essentially any special weapon in the game. I think they're fine. Eldar have much better offensive statlines, as well as even more special abilities than the necrons listed here, who would get wiped across the floor by almost any given melee unit in the game, even the much maligned Khorne Berserker would shred these guys like paper if not for the fnp.

Keeping the 4+ armor save in mind, I still suggest a passive bonus to FNP rolls from phylactery or gold lord. WBB gives a 75% chance to stand back up with res orb, and with a mono around, it's like 87%. FNP, as you've got it right now gives every necron unit, at best, a 50% chance to "Stand back up." Even with the bonus toughness, I think that they will need more staying (or at least undying) power in order to not get boarded and phased. Assuming an average army would have 50 models on the table w/ the necron special rule (which is kind of high, as you'de need lots of warrior packs), it would only take 37 casualties to board the 'crons. Anyone can kill packs of necrons with big, nasty templates. Bassalisks, demolishers, or Battle Cannons will kill any given 'cron model or either dex it hits about 87% of the time it fires, which nominal wbb knocks down to around 23%. FNP only knocks it down to 47% The large blast template can easily hit four or five models in one shot. if there isn't a res orb near these models in this hypothesized 5th ed 'dex, then the necron player could lose an average of 4 models a turn to a single artillery piece, and two-three at best. In a minimum length game, that's 20(or 10-15) bloody models for one unit, and over (or nearly) half of the required models to deck the 'cron player. Even if the cron has a mono under this new dex's rules, and are able to pop 3 more 'crons out every turn, that only covers the damage dealt by a single artillery piece, and you are paying 250 points extra for the 3 units a turn, whereas a bassalisk only costs, a hundred points, as is the same for leeman russes, defilers, and demolishers. Hell, without the enhanced saves, whirlwinds are going to own the crap out of these necrons, as a single template will deal .25 wounds per model.

They need some kind of way of buffing their FNP, seeing as +1T & FNP < +1 armor save & WBB.

Regardless of their offensive stats, and regardless of how OP people are misled to think rend is, it isn't ridiculous to give it to necron infantry. Rending s4 attacks can kill a dreadnought, one out of every eighteen shots. This means that warriors will be able to kill a dreadnought on one out of every 162 shots. They hit 3/4 of the time, they rend 1/6 of the time, on which they roll 3s on the rend 1/3 of the time, and then roll 5-6 on the damage chart 1/3 of the time. That means one squad of warriors will, on average and with rapid fire, kill a dreadnought in 3.5 turns, which is more than half the game to regain about 1/2 their point cost. This is exempting the fact that they would never be allowed, for four turns running, to rapid fire a single target. As far as infantry goes, your precious space marines are more lilley to just die from failing an armor save or dangerous terrain save than they are to get killed by rending shots.

The necrons are explicitly stated, in their codex, to maintain most advanced cognative processes, and thus they retain their leadership, because sometimes it's logical to retreat. Fearless better suits units that really just want to killkillkill regardless of what's best for their well being. That's why it's got the lose combat backlash, as well as why it's given primarily to units that are considered stupid or crazy, such as mini-nids, boyz, and khorne berserkers

I did not know this thanks for the info. I haven't read that dex in a while but have read lots of novels where they seem like mindless automotons.

Hah, its seems I have one person who thinks its too weak, and one too strong. That probably means its about right.

@Nachturnus: How does Res Orb (GW version) give a 75% chance of WBB?
I think I'll add some sort of item to give a better FNP for the lord.

I thought overall it was a pretty good write up. Shoot Id allow that to be used at my table, even if just to play test it. Im still not a fan of phase out, and agree that a few things might be a bit over powered. But still pretty sound.

I didnt read it all 100% though, so I might have missed it, but what is a Myrmidon suppose to look like?

Its supposed to be the size of a Wraithlord, but much thicker set.

A bit like the mech on the far right of this pic, but with much thicker legs, much taller and more necrony.


Other new stuff:
The Hound could be anything (I think a gaint jugger would look quite good but it could just be a more nimble Mymidon with chain-flail arms in a flayer-one pose, or even a worm or something)
Obalisk and Pylon are the Energy Core and lisening post from DoW

Oooo thats cool. Kind of like an ED209 then? But with Guass heavy cannons lol. This is peaking my interest

okay so I've had some more time to look over things in your proposed dex and there are quite a few things that honestly baffle me. I'm going to try to sound out my arguements in a calm and concise manner if I don't come off this way I apologize in advance.

Necron lord: 150 points
For that price you get get a model that has is as tough as a hive tyrant as strong as a hiv tyrant as fast as a hive hyrant with more attacks than a wolf lord has a power weapon that can penetrate a landraider in CC that has an anti MEQ weapon that can fire 3 times hits on a 2+ or if a 1 is rolled on a futher 6+ that wounds on a 3 before getting into combat, this is also stubborn and has feel no pain. Also since he is Toughness 6 he is immune to instant death by anything that isn't a force weapon. Wow just wow this is the best model in the game without any extra equipment. You may say that he doesn't have an invul save for free, but look neither do tyranid MC's and they are significantly more expensive. What is your justification for the sheer awesomeness of a basic HQ model?

Pariahs:
the rules you haev for pyschic abomination are vastly overpowered. for 35 points I get the primary ability of a culelexis assassin on crack and I can have 10 of them with feel no paint and T5.
Unlike a culexis assassin your Ld 7 leadership bubble only effects enemies and not allies
They also provide an aura of 5+ invul saves to your whole army vs. pyschic powers
They are also immune to them and to top it off they screw over all pyshic powers in an aura.
Now with sufficent point cost and backing I could maybe see all this on a single SPECIAL CHARACTER HQ choice, not a 10 man unit that is an elite an nigh unkillable.

Myrmidons:
Something that tough shouldn't be elite but heavy

Hounds:
Better stats than trygons, for less cost, have the maw law hit and run, have beast movement can be fielded in groups of 3 really? again how can you justify this.


I'm not even going to go further I do'nt need to. I don't see at all how this army list is balanced at all can you . I don't think this list could lose ever espcially once you take into account your equipment. All I need is a rez orb on a lord and I've pretty much made an invincible army. I can't lose in CC I have attacks that ignore all saves my FNP can be taken always therby giving every singele model in the army effectively an additional invulernable save even after the first one fails. Everythign is stronger than tyrandis tougher than marines more durable than tyranids and plague marines, have better guns and bs then tau and IG they are all a bargin for their points. Most armise have a single model with tohse properties not every unit. This army has no weakness aside from the "phase out" which will never happen. Okay I'm done ranting again I apologize.

dumplingman wrote:okay so I've had some more time to look over things in your proposed dex and there are quite a few things that honestly baffle me. I'm going to try to sound out my arguements in a calm and concise manner if I don't come off this way I apologize in advance.

Necron lord: 150 points
For that price you get get a model that has is as tough as a hive tyrant as strong as a hiv tyrant as fast as a hive hyrant with more attacks than a wolf lord has a power weapon that can penetrate a landraider in CC that has an anti MEQ weapon that can fire 3 times hits on a 2+ or if a 1 is rolled on a futher 6+ that wounds on a 3 before getting into combat, this is also stubborn and has feel no pain. Also since he is Toughness 6 he is immune to instant death by anything that isn't a force weapon. Wow just wow this is the best model in the game without any extra equipment. You may say that he doesn't have an invul save for free, but look neither do tyranid MC's and they are significantly more expensive. What is your justification for the sheer awesomeness of a basic HQ model?

Yet you think the Silver, who is just as hard to kill, is fine

Also, whats wrong with a shooty HQ?


Pariahs:
the rules you haev for pyschic abomination are vastly overpowered. for 35 points I get the primary ability of a culelexis assassin on crack and I can have 10 of them with feel no paint and T5.
Unlike a culexis assassin your Ld 7 leadership bubble only effects enemies and not allies
They also provide an aura of 5+ invul saves to your whole army vs. pyschic powers
They are also immune to them and to top it off they screw over all pyshic powers in an aura.
Now with sufficent point cost and backing I could maybe see all this on a single SPECIAL CHARACTER HQ choice, not a 10 man unit that is an elite an nigh unkillable.

I'd say thats a problem with the Culexis being too weak, rather than my version being too strong. They don't have FNP.
I really dont see immunity to Psy as being a huge advantage - certainly in my local meta, very few people run psykers in the first place, and the ones that do run Libbys/Farseers who won't be affected by it (only using movement/unit boosting powers).
I just cannot see the 'crons building something that would screw themselves over - would making it any non-necron unit work better?
Also, remember that they have to footslog, they cannot teleport/portal etc.

Myrmidons:
Something that tough shouldn't be elite but heavy

Hounds:
Better stats than trygons, for less cost, have the maw law hit and run, have beast movement can be fielded in groups of 3 really? again how can you justify this.

This is the same thing as the lord, I dont know what models your basing this on.
My dex says the Trygon is
5 3 6 6 6 4 6 8 3+
The Hound
4 4 6 6 3 6 6 10 3+ FNP

Trygon has better gun, better DS rules, rerolls all failed to hits...
The Hound HAS to DS (a disadvantage), its remove from the table option is INSTEAD of assaulting, on a model with no real ranged power.
I will replace CotSL w/5++.

With the big MC's and the Pariahs, remember that you while you can take loads of them, if you take 9 Hounds and a Gold Lord w/Res Orb, you get 20 warriors in 2000p. Good luck winning then!



You know what would be a lot more usful that simply saying OP!?!?

Saying how you would fix it.



What do people think about C'tan in the 'dex or not?

dumplingman wrote:
Necron lord: 150 points
For that price you get get a model that has is as tough as a hive tyrant as strong as a hiv tyrant as fast as a hive hyrant with more attacks than a wolf lord has a power weapon that can penetrate a landraider in CC that has an anti MEQ weapon that can fire 3 times hits on a 2+ or if a 1 is rolled on a futher 6+ that wounds on a 3 before getting into combat, this is also stubborn and has feel no pain. Also since he is Toughness 6 he is immune to instant death by anything that isn't a force weapon. Wow just wow this is the best model in the game without any extra equipment. You may say that he doesn't have an invul save for free, but look neither do tyranid MC's and they are significantly more expensive. What is your justification for the sheer awesomeness of a basic HQ model?

Vanilla Hive tyrants only cost 20 points more, and have +2 weapon skill, and additional wound, and are MCs, granting double-dice penetration. That alone evens the score, even when one considers the bs 6 on the lord. Tyrants get shadow in the warp, grant synapse, and reduce the attacks of every incoming model by 1 attack. Hive tyrants also have crazy amounts of upgrades that can do some serious buffing for their armies, as well as the ability to make their points back easily by way of venom canons. Hive tyrants are also capable of becoming effectively immortal by picking up some hive guard.

I think you may want to read the proto-dex a little closer, and maybe with the nids codex in hand.

dumplingman wrote:
Pariahs:
the rules you haev for pyschic abomination are vastly overpowered. for 35 points I get the primary ability of a culelexis assassin on crack and I can have 10 of them with feel no paint and T5.
Unlike a culexis assassin your Ld 7 leadership bubble only effects enemies and not allies
They also provide an aura of 5+ invul saves to your whole army vs. pyschic powers
They are also immune to them and to top it off they screw over all pyshic powers in an aura.
Now with sufficent point cost and backing I could maybe see all this on a single SPECIAL CHARACTER HQ choice, not a 10 man unit that is an elite an nigh unkillable.

Piriahs need a buff from the 3E dex. Considering the fact that psychic powers and casters usually don't regain their cost (excluding jaws of the imba-wolf), and that the only ability they have against casters beyond pistol range is old school Collars of Khorne for 35 points a model they seem fine. The Cellexus assassin is over priced, just like every other cult assassin. Within 12 inches, they get dangerous, but it's not like they'll ever get that close, as you can kill them with any given artillery template. The invul save is also nearly worthless, as it only works 1/6(16%) of the time, which means it will only save one out of seven guys. They also don't get FNP, which is crucial for units like these to get across the field. I probably STILL wouldn't take these guys, even with the buffs, just because they still cant get across the field fast enough, and will probably get wasted (or at least knocked down to 1/4 strength) before turn two is over.

dumplingman wrote:
Myrmidons:
Something that tough shouldn't be elite but heavy

I agree, or at least think they might be better suited as heavy.

dumplingman wrote:
Hounds:
Better stats than trygons, for less cost, have the maw law hit and run, have beast movement can be fielded in groups of 3 really? again how can you justify this.

Trygons are 50 points more for twice the wounds. Trygons also don't get blown apart by deepstrike mishaps when they deploy, especially since they don't come onto the table with three bases to consider for deepstrike.

dumplingman wrote:
I don't think this list could lose ever espcially once you take into account your equipment. All I need is a rez orb on a lord and I've pretty much made an invincible army. I can't lose in CC I have attacks that ignore all saves my FNP can be taken always therby giving every singele model in the army effectively an additional invulernable save even after the first one fails. Everythign is stronger than tyrandis tougher than marines more durable than tyranids and plague marines, have better guns and bs then tau and IG they are all a bargin for their points. Most armise have a single model with tohse properties not every unit. This army has no weakness aside from the "phase out" which will never happen.

Firstly, please proofread or something, I have a hard time reading this because the spelling errors keep throwing me off. Secondly, his application of FNP has ZERO differences from WBB, other than it can be prevented by more stuff. The res orb in this dex is EXACTLY the same as the one from the original 'crons codex. I'll address the other issues one at a time.

The models are stronger and more durable than gaunts because they cost about three times more.
They are the same toughness as plague marines because they cost the same, and they can't take special weapons at all (they get rending instead.)
They have a much worse armor save than the entire marines codex, so no they aren't tougher than marines (the difference between 4+ armor saves and 3+ armor saves is much greater than the difference between T4 and T5).
They shoot better than Tau because the Tau dex is underpowered (which is why there aren't tau competitive lists), and tau are way cheaper.
They Have better BS than IG, and thus will hit more often, which is why IG cost 7 pts per model and these 'crons cost 20+.
Like I said earlier, they will phase out just as often as normal crons do. If you care to read a few posts up, i mentioned how the IG would cut through these guys like butter.

Ok, version 1.1 is up.

Changes:
Silver + Gold Lords - stats down, cost up
Chronometron, Res Orb and Null Field points up
Phylactery effect changed.

Pariahs - very slight points increase, Psy-Abomination effects all non-necrons, removed PotW boosting effect
The Hounds - Cover save decreased. Run abilty removed.
Obelisk - AV13 and 200p
Pylon - AV12 and 120p - its deepstrike mishap abilty has been reduced in raduis.

To the C'Tan question:

I'de leave them out. Possibly add in something where the gold lords can take a gold-only upgrade called "aspect of the ______" which does stuff similar to what the C'Tan can do for a ton of points. They should do something that adds flavor to both the army, and the unit, just as the star gods themselves do. I'de suggest a "game wide" effect, and an effect for the unit itself. This shouldn't be in the form of stats buffs on the most part, but more in the form of abilities that are designed to make play a little more interresting.

Examples:

Essence of the Deceiver, 60 pts:
The lord is empowered with the shifting abilities of the Deceiver. He is able to, at the beginning of the assault phase, after assault moves have been made, before any wounds have been dealt, the Lord may disengage from combat and retreat 2d6 away from the units he is locked in assault with.

In addition, At the beginning of the game, after units have been deployed and scout moves/ infiltrates have been done, but before the first player's movement has begun, the deceiver may move any single unit in the enemy or allies army up to 2d6 to any legal deployment. Difficult and dangerous terrain tests apply.

Essence of the Outsider, 80 points:
The lord is empowered with the eternal blood thirst thirst of the outsider. He and the unit he is attached to gain furious charge. The lord may also take a leadership test, and if successful, perform a shooting attack that, instead of dealing damage, draws enemy units 2d6 closer to him in a straight line. Dificult terrain tests apply, and the enemy unit, during the opponents shooting phase following the use of this special ability, behave as though they had moved during their movement phase, even if they had not moved other than being dragged by the thirst of the outsider. (think of a version of lash that only pulls things towards you, but without the pinning)

In addition, once per game, The lord may spend the entire friendly turn channeling the will of the outsider. At the begining of the opponents movement phase, one enemy unit or model is sucked into the void. Place a marker where the unit was removed. At the begining of the enemy's next turn, deploy the unit or model at the location it disapeared from by way of the deepstrike rules. This deepstrike may scatter, and the units may not move or assault after they re-enter the corporeal world, unless their text specifically says they may, such as vanguard veterans. (This is essentially just pulling a unit from the board for one turn, which can be crucial in destroying an enemy's defenses or in covering a mistake. This ability would add another level of tactical depth to the necrons)

dumplingman wrote:Myrmidons:
Something that tough shouldn't be elite but heavy

If its a Heavy, it doesn't compete with Immortals and Hounds, which it should - This prevents spamming MSU's

Hounds:
Better stats than trygons, for less cost, have the maw law hit and run, have beast movement can be fielded in groups of 3 really? again how can you justify this.

As above, the stats are worse the Trygon. Lets look at the mathhammer:
Trygon, for 20% more points, kills 5.17 MEQ's on the charge.
The Hound kills 2.9.

Also, you never see decent tyranid players DSing the Trygon, as it prevents it from getting into combat until T3/4. The Hounds MUST DS.
The Trygon has a 6 shot S6 gun. The Hound has 2 stormbolters.

I'm not even going to go further I do'nt need to. I don't see at all how this army list is balanced at all can you . I don't think this list could lose ever espcially once you take into account your equipment. All I need is a rez orb on a lord and I've pretty much made an invincible army.

So you always lose to GW necrons then?

I can't lose in CC I have attacks that ignore all saves my FNP can be taken always therby giving every singele model in the army effectively an additional invulernable save even after the first one fails.

What Inv save - only Pariahs (6+) and Lords (upgarde to 4+) can have them.
Also, its a 12" raduis. Kill the stuff outside it, or just charge and target the Lord in CC

Everythign is stronger than tyrandis tougher than marines more durable than tyranids and plague marines,

Whichs is the point - they should be the toughest models

have better guns and bs then tau and IG they are all a bargin for their points. Most armise have a single model with tohse properties not every unit. This army has no weakness aside from the "phase out" which will never happen. Okay I'm done ranting again I apologize.

Execpt for the weaknesses like points cost per model, and the fact that most models can only do Shooting OR CC, and die horribly to the other. Look at Warriors, who cannot do anything in CC, and Flayed Ones, who are T4 4+ at range.
Sure, the MCs, elite Inf, heros and tanks are really good. But they have the double drawback of huge point costs and the fact they count as one/zero models for phase out. You COULD shoot those 2 Mrymadons, or you could shoot those 2 Warriors, because they are worth the same.

The balance in the new dex seems fine to me. would it benefit the obelisk to double their range on their flux arcs or something? I probably wouldn't take one, as 12 inches is only one turn's worth of shooting.

I like the new changes, the only thing I'd change is the names to fit more with how the Necrons are themed.

Like, instead of Myrmidon, a Necron Pharaoh

or instead of "the hounds" which doesn't sound very Necrony, Sphinxes.

Actually, i kind of agree. If not an Egyptian theme, at least one that sounds more imposing and necron-ish.

I also came up with ideas for the Void Dragon and Nightbringer Powers

Essence of the Void Dragon: 70 points

The necron lord is imbued with the calculating essence of the mechanical Void Dragon. This grants the necron lord himself deepstrike, and any unit he is attached to Tank Hunter, as well as allowing him to make a FNP (modified by phylactery if applicable) roll instead of shooting. If the Lord succeeds, he may repair a single weapon destroyed result, increase the number of shots fired by a Gauss Flux Arc (to a maximum of D6), or a single immobilized result on one vehicle within 12 inches as a swarm of mechanical scarabs spring forth from a portal and repair the vehicle. Additionally, the lord's knowledge allows the selection of pylons and obelisks as elites.

(Basically, he's a necron master of the forge who gets Tank Hunter for his unit instead of conversion beamer, and uses FNP to repair things.)

Once per game, during the movement phase of his turn, the necron lord may choose to spend the entire turn to call upon the will of the Deus Ex Machina, and temporarily resurrect the shade of a single destroyed friendly vehicle. Any Vehicles that have been destroyed with a "Explodes!" or "Wrecked" result comes back into play, deepstriking within 12 inches from where it was killed. This vehicle behaves exactly as it did in life, and immediately takes a move action. If the vehicle is normally immobile it may glide in a ghostly fashion, behaving as if it were a ponderous skimmer. This vehicle may engage in shooting attacks and assaults as per normal. This necron vehicle may be destroyed and awards killpoints as normal, but may not contest objectives. At the beginning of the necron player's next turn, the shade loses stability and is violently sucked into oblivion, and is removed from the table, suffering from an "Explodes!" result on the vehicle damage table, damaging units around it as normal.

(though long-winded, the use of this ability is pretty obvious. You resurrect stuff with it in order to get one, last swipe against enemies. This gives you the chance to deal some surprising damage to enemies who weren't expecting that monolith to suddenly stands up and shoot their Leman Russ in the back with a particle whip.)


Essence of the Night Bringer: 70

The Necron lord is imbued with the fearsome visage of The Nightbringer. The Lord's gauss attacks (attacks he rolls a 6 on to wound) now inflict two wounds to the squad that ignore all saves. In all assaults, the enemy squad automatically loses the combat resolution, even if they would normally have won, and suffers wounds or glancing hits equal to the number of wounds or glancing/penetrating dealt by the necron lord as the waves of fear cause enemies to collapse in a maddening terror. These wounds may be saved and do not add to conflict resolution.

(Essentially, this is designed as a massive self-buff for meele for the necron lord. It also severely punishes enemies who've invested in a small number of expensive units, and those who have allowed the lord to get into their ranged-specialist units.)

Once per game, at the beginning of hismovement phase, the lord summons a massive blast of green Lightning from the ground, A visible show of the Nightbringer's unspeakable rage, and then move, shoot, and assault as normal. Place a single, large blast template centered over an enemy unit within line of sight of the lord, and roll for scatter, reduced by the Lord's ballistics skill. Inflict a single Strength 10, AP 2 hit to all units, without the necron special rule, who have a model below the template, and to the side armor of vehicles. This attack ignores invulnerable saves. Any models, friend or foe, within 3 inches of an unit affected by the Nightbringer's wrath suffer a single S 5 AP 4 hit, also to the side armor of vehicles, as the lightning arcs from one soldier to another.

(that bits a little complicated. Essentially, you use it like orbital strike, except that the ap is reduced, as the lord has a huge ballistics skill, and it probably wont scatter very far. The primary blast does nothing to "necron" units, however you can't just drop it on your own guys without fearing for the consequences, as the secondary arcs pose a threat to your own infantry units and the primary arc does full damage to your own vehicles. The hit on your guys is rather marginal when compared to the primary blast, however, so you may want to drop it on your guys anyway if you think you can do more damage with the primary blast.)

Here are the first two:

Essence of the Deceiver, 80 pts:

The lord is empowered with the shifting abilities of the Deceiver. All units that fail any test based on shooting casualties, so long as they took wounds wounds from the upgraded lord within the same turn, as they hallucinate a firestorm of green lightning cutting down their allies. In addition, he is able to, at the beginning of the assault phase, after assault moves have been made, before any wounds have been dealt, the Lord may disengage from combat and retreat 2d6 away from the units he is locked in assault with. This disengages him from any unit he might be a part of.

In addition, At the beginning of the game, after units have been deployed and scout moves/ infiltrates have been done, but before the first player's movement has begun, the deceiver may move any single unit in the enemy or allies army up to 2d6 to any legal deployment. Difficult and dangerous terrain tests apply.

(Basically, he behaves almost exactly the same as the Deceiver does, along with a nifty little shooting buff.)

Essence of the Outsider, 80 points:

The lord is empowered with the eternal blood thirst thirst of the outsider. He and the unit he is attached to gain furious charge. The lord may also take a leadership test, and if successful, perform a shooting attack that, instead of dealing damage, draws enemy units 2d6 closer to him in a straight line. Dificult terrain tests apply, and the enemy unit, during the opponents shooting phase following the use of this special ability, behave as though they had moved during their movement phase, even if they had not moved other than being dragged by the thirst of the outsider.

(think of a version of lash that only pulls things towards you, but without the pinning)

In addition, once per game, The lord may spend the entire friendly turn channeling the will of the outsider. At the begining of the opponents movement phase, one enemy unit or model is sucked into the void. Place a marker where the unit was removed. At the begining of the enemy's next turn, deploy the unit or model at the location it disapeared from by way of the deepstrike rules. This deepstrike may scatter, and the units may not move or assault after they re-enter the corporeal world, unless their text specifically says they may, such as vanguard veterans.

(This is essentially just pulling a unit from the board for one turn, which can be crucial in destroying an enemy's defenses or in covering a mistake. This ability would add another level of tactical depth to the necrons)

I like what I've read of it, but there are a few things I would change. I would make them not capable of running, and I would change the names of the lords to something more aesthetic, like 'Elder lord' for one of the older ones rather than something color-specific, and have the fluff explain the coloring (making them easy to recognize and more fun to model)

As for rules, I'd reduce the S of everything by 1 and no lower than 4. Wraiths seem very unbalanced, being extremely OP. I'd lower the save, S and T and keep the initiative at its relatively high level (maybe even reduce it by one.)

The stats lineup I'd like to see for it is WS4 BS0 S4 T5 W1 I6 (5?) A3 Ld10 Sv5+ Cost 37
I say this because they have a ridiculously high number of attacks for their initiative and cost (not to mention they're characteristically slow) can FLY, and have rending.

Using my handy-dandy mathhammer calculator, a slightly more expensive squad of four GK terminators and a BC are fighting in CC against five Wraiths. Given the increased mobility of the Wraiths, I'd think it's fair to say the Wraiths would get the charge. 25x5=100 attacks. (3 base, +1 for extra CCW, +1 for charge.)
That calculates to 63 expected hits, 52 expected wounds, and 4 expected casualties. The Brother Captain then attacks. he is expected to hit 1.5 targets, wound .75, and then have .04 failed saves. Now, on the off-chance the terminators get the charge, they are expected to get one kill out of all of them. This is a more expensive unit, and in a more restricted slot dealing significantly less damage than the same number of wraiths for less points.

Alternatively, don't let them charge you. Just shoot them down.

You don't allow howling banshees to get stuck in at full strength if they've got a uber-exarch. You don't let bassalisk lines sit there in the corner and pound your army into dust.

At most, i'de suggest nerfing the wraith's saves a little. Drop their armor and innvul saves to 4+, and reducing their core toughness by one to 4(5). I think their uber-focus on melee stats is fine, especially considering their expense and purpose.

GKTs are overpriced because of their abilities against demons, GK special rules, a multi-role unit, and the fact that they're outdated. A better comparison would be between a squad of chaos terminators with lightning claws. In addition, I'm fairly sure that BA has included the extra attack in their stat line already, as has been done in all 5th edition codexes. 4 attacks on the charge is fairly average for a dedicated melee unit, especially one of this price.

Doing the math (with the stats as of now in the dex) on the chaos terminators (assuming they get the charge), You see that 5x chaos terminator champions w/ claws, at 40 points a pop, can hit 20 times, Dealing about 7-8 wounds which cannot be FNPd, of which 3 get through the invul save. Conversely, against the terminators, the wraiths (assuming the charge) can hit 20 times, dealing 15 wounds, with 2-3 (2.5) rends. The terminators save 10 of the 12 melee wounds, and save around 1(.66) of the rends. Around 3-4 wounds. The net cost of the terminators is 25 (5 per model) points less. If you wanted, you could give them mark of tzneech or khorne for about that much (about 6-6.5 per model), which would completely change the outcome.

Anyone else feeling the insta-pen on a 6 is a bit OP for gauss weapons?