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Mistress of minis wrote:Should never use a chainsaw without eye & ear protection!!

I imagine a cup might be a good idea too....chainsaws are harsh on low lying twigs and berries

Now- if he had a chainsaw powered set up bag pipes- the uberness of that would make this thread implode.

Hmm. Irish bagpipes powered by a chainsaw. That may actually sound tolerable.

Irish bag pipes only sound more tolerable in direct proportion to the amount of whiskey involved

Chainsaw bagpipes sound like some wondrous Ork invention....I see conversion potential!

Frazzled wrote:

jp400 wrote:LoL..

The bore is clear and crisp. Overall I would say in 90% range.

Not sure what I am going to do with the stock at this point. I am mainly trying to get the gun complete before I start thinking about all that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

inquisitor_bob wrote:

jp400 wrote:Buy from Mitchel's Mausers... you won't be dissapointed.

Your Mauser is not a German K98k. It is a Yugoslavian M24/47 with a turned down bolt.

Annnnnd you sir, are wrong.

Mauser, Obendorf- "byf" (insert year here, can't remember off the top of my head and too lazy to dig out the rifle from storage) says so.

90% Excellent.

Unfortunately that is what gave Mitchell's such a bad reputation. They have been known to falsify markings, force match parts and then charge a premium for their "german WW2 mausers". If the metal is indeed german, the stock is definitely from a Yugo mauser, most likely an M48. German made Kar 98ks have a different handguard. The whole thing actually looks like an M48 BO, which was one of Mitchell's fast ones. They bought unmarked Yugo mausers (BO=bez oznake= without markings), stamped some waffen marks on them and then ripped people off. They are not bad if you want to pay a premium to have someone else refinish a rifle for you in a manner that will destroy much of it's collectors value. The quality of their product is good, but blatant false advertising and ridiculously high prices turns my stomach. I would avoid them like the plague. You can get much better deals on actual 98ks elsewhere.

Edit: Went to Mitchell's website. They cleaned up their act a bit , prices are still outrageous though the outright lies have been toned down. They are actually listing the rifle pictured in jp400's post as a Yugo M48/98 (which still makes no sense since you can't swap parts between a 98 mauser and a 48, different length actions). So Inq Bob was half right. It is Yugoslavian, just not a 24/47 but a 48.

Wow, those pictures tell me something.

Buy yugoslavian and you can afford all sorts of goodies, buy german and you have a gun wrapped in a tarp.

I know relatively little about handguns, but owning a monocle is mandatory if one owns a luger. The eastern european accent is not mandatory, but nice to have.

In terms of zombie killing guns, I want the Taurus Judge.

In terms of self defence and practicality I'm thinking a small .40 or .45.

Small .45's tend to be rather uncomfortable to shoot with- not a big issue if you dont practice much. The .40's are a bit better, and the array of really effective ammo for them is rather bewildering these days. Its been my preference for...17 years....which makes me feel reallllly old.

halonachos wrote:Wow, those pictures tell me something.

Buy yugoslavian and you can afford all sorts of goodies, buy german and you have a gun wrapped in a tarp.

I know relatively little about handguns, but owning a monocle is mandatory if one owns a luger. The eastern european accent is not mandatory, but nice to have.

In terms of zombie killing guns, I want the Taurus Judge.

In terms of self defence and practicality I'm thinking a small .40 or .45.

That pic was more to show how dishonest Mitchell's can be. I'm sure they sent him documents saying how it was a German made mauser and whatnot, while it clearly is not. Most military surplus rifles come with al the goodies free of charge.
Buy german, get a used rife that was beat to all heck and then refinished or buy yugoslavian 48bo and get a rifle that has never been fired (mine even still had the serial number written on the stock in pencil since it had never been issued and for about 150 dollars less than a beat german). Yugo rifles aren't as nice mind you , but you get what you pay for unless you frequent Mitchell's Mausers.

The Judge is neat, but lacks in practicality. .410 out of a stubby barrel is not so hot.
+1 Mistress of Minis .40 is nice, .45 can be a handful in a small piece and you should always practice as much as possible. It's nice to talk about what firearm is the best in theory, but the firearm that is best is the one you are comfortable using.
( I feed and house myself in the firearms trade now, not a huge handgun fan though)

Like I said, the Judge is my zombie gun.

Can't wait till next year though, I can get my concealed and carry license and be a responsible person with it.

That means I still have a whole year to find the one I want so that's good.

Anyhow, how do you guys feel about a .32 as a self defense weapon?

Do yourself a favor and get a .380 or a 9x18 (preferably a cz 82 if you go that route) for concealed carry. Again, try some out. Rent a few at a shop or range and see what you are most comfortable with. Hitting someone with a .32 beats missing with a .45 compact.

That's exactly what my dad says. I just wanted to see if he was full of garbage or not.

Nope, he isn't full of it. I got an 8x56 rifle. Figured i'd take it hunting. I was wrong. That round out of a light rifle led to a brutal flinch every time I shot it (because it hurts like a motherf'er). I've settled on 6.5x55 since I have no recoil flinch and it will give me a clean kill every time (mmmm.... tasty animals).

Firearms just don't work if you can't hit anything with them. Not to say you can't train up enough to be good with a .45 compact.It's just a question of how dedicated you are. Firearms are no joke (not directed at you halonacho, but many people approach firearms from a video game perspective) . You want to keep 'em , be responsible.

Downsides to a .32, they are not cheap to train with. >32 cal ammo costs more than 9mm, and sometimes even .40

.380 is a step up, but its still in the anemic range.

Self defense guns arent about wounding or killing- theyre about stopping power- which is a balancing acting of impact trauma(due to large caliber or efficient bullet design) and practicality.

Accuracy is paramount, which comes down to skill- which is usually derived from practice. So- getting something you can actually afford to practice with is often the best starting point.

Then you get to decide- do you want a gun thats comfortable to carry around(like a .32), or one thats comfortable to shoot? A .32 in your hand when you need it is worth about ten thousand times more than than a customized colt thats in your gun safe

I myself have chosen a well known and proven workhorse for my CCW.

The good ol .38 Spec with Semi Wadcutters.



Easy to conceal, low recoil even with +P rounds, very accurate at the range I need it to be, easy on the hands and can even shoot one handed if needed and still be on target.

Only downside, is that it only has 5 shots before I have to reload. Thankfully im a good shot and shouldn't need more then 5 shots. Plus if im ever taken to court for a shooting, they can't throw "excessive force" my way.

Nice Jp, you can't beat a wheel gun for ease of use and reliability. Jp and Mistress have some good points. Especially the cost of ammo since that will impact how often you train. What ever you get just make sure you can afford to train with it so you can get comfortable with it.

I would grab my old .38 service revolver if anything came up. First time I shot one of those was something like 20 years ago, but I am totally comfortable with it and know I'll hit what I'm aiming at (despite having more replacement parts than originals). The bottom line is if it is going to be a carry piece. Train with it a lot and stick with it until you get just as comfortable with something else. If your life does depend on it you want to be able to hit your target under extreme duress.

I cant really get behind a .38 spec these days. Theres just so many better options in the same price bracket. Even good +p ammo (which is rather pricey these days) is on the low end of standard 9mm HP's in terms of stopping power. Im still bitter about .38 ammo letting me down and not knocking over light steel plates when I used to compete(which is why I switched to .357 then .40 )

If you're going for a starter CCW piece, another budget option I've recommended is a Baikal Ij70 in .380. Its a Bulgarian clone of the Makarov which is compact yet robust and can be had with a 13rd mag. Usually under 200$ Theres also a good Walther PPK clone that I cant recall the make of thats a bit easier to conceal (8rd mag) . Some gun snobs knock the Eastern Euro clones- but if they want to pay 2 or 3 times as much for a gun that does the same thing- let them pay the 'stupid tax'

Small .45's tend to be rather uncomfortable to shoot with- not a big issue if you dont practice much. The .40's are a bit better

Honestly, I find the .40 to be more punishing. It's just got more "snap" to it. .45s strike me as being more slow in their firing impulse. Might be in my head, but that's how I feel.

Anyhow, how do you guys feel about a .32 as a self defense weapon?

Depends on how much pressure the gun can deal with, and how well you shoot. Since the answer to the second question in a real fighting situation is "poorly" I wouldn't count on doing much more than putting bullets on center of mass, if that.

Honestly, at this point there are a lot of very compact 9mm offerings, so I don't see a reason to carry anything else.

9mm is going to be cheap, available, and have many, many different loads.

Not to say you can't train up enough to be good with a .45 compact.

I've never really bought the idea that even a reasonably experienced shooter "can't handle" any normal pistol caliber. It's not really an issue of .45s missing more... It's an issue of compactness. You can get a lot more 9mm into the same frame. You're going to hit as much as you're going to hit, regardless of caliber. But if you have, say, 3 more shots of 9mm, you'll get more hits before you have to change mags.

Some gun snobs knock the Eastern Euro clones- but if they want to pay 2 or 3 times as much for a gun that does the same thing- let them pay the 'stupid tax'

Meh, to me it's more of an issue of mindset. If you're going to carry a handgun, you should be 110% serious about it, 120% of the time you're doing it. While it may be that you can cut some corners and come out fine, I think the entire idea of cutting corners should be avoided when it comes to concealed carry.

Some folks might be in a situation where they perceive genuine danger in their life, and they simply can't afford more than $200... If that's really the case, I feel for that person, and they have to do what they have to do... But realistically, most Americans aren't in that situation.

Yeah, I'm serious about this. I want the guy down if he comes after me, preferably not dead so I won't have to worry about manslaughter stuff which may prevent me from even attempting to shoot him. Unfortunately, my dad showed me the revolver we have for home defense(.357) and always told me to aim for the chest because its harder to hit the head, arms, and legs. If you miss then its no good.

So in effect I'm looking for something that I can place in a guys gut without killing him outright. It'll get him down and allow the legal process to take care of him.

So in effect I'm looking for something that I can place in a guys gut without killing him outright.

Not really how it works. You shoot to stop the action. You shoot until he stops trying to kill you.

That said, if you shoot somebody, from a legal perspective you probably want to just kill him. No witness against you.

Mistress of minis wrote:I cant really get behind a .38 spec these days. Theres just so many better options in the same price bracket. Even good +p ammo (which is rather pricey these days) is on the low end of standard 9mm HP's in terms of stopping power. Im still bitter about .38 ammo letting me down and not knocking over light steel plates when I used to compete(which is why I switched to .357 then .40 )

If you're going for a starter CCW piece, another budget option I've recommended is a Baikal Ij70 in .380. Its a Bulgarian clone of the Makarov which is compact yet robust and can be had with a 13rd mag. Usually under 200$ Theres also a good Walther PPK clone that I cant recall the make of thats a bit easier to conceal (8rd mag) . Some gun snobs knock the Eastern Euro clones- but if they want to pay 2 or 3 times as much for a gun that does the same thing- let them pay the 'stupid tax'

Oh I won't deny that there are more modern options on the market for the same price. I, however, wanted something that has a steady positive rep behind it and has YEARS of positive feedback to back it up. Auto's are nice, but a slick wheelgun is my eye candy.

I guess I am just old fashoned. lol.

Phryxis wrote:

So in effect I'm looking for something that I can place in a guys gut without killing him outright.

Not really how it works. You shoot to stop the action. You shoot until he stops trying to kill you.

That said, if you shoot somebody, from a legal perspective you probably want to just kill him. No witness against you.

It would make it easier for me to defend myself though. After all I was just trying to stop him, but he just kept moving so I tried to stop him again and then he stopped.

I would probably still get arrested for shooting the guy running the red light though.


It's not like I'm unwilling to kill someone who's endangering me or any of the kids I watch, its just that I would prefer not to.

You know, one thing that I find sort of amusing when it comes to handguns, its the typical 'Revolvers have been around so much longer- they have a better track record!' mindset.

Revolvers didnt become common until the 1860's. Now we add metallic cartridges to the mix. A mere 30 years later automatics start popping up, by 1896 the c96 mauser(<--look! Sorta on topic now!) went into production. 15 years later Genius Moses Browning is cranking out the 1911.

So, wheel guns only have an extra 50 years of use over autos, which in the big scheme of firearms design isnt much. I think the only real application for revolvers over automatics- is you cant really lose your magazine )


Dont get me wrong, I like a good revolver too. When I first started reloading en masse, I got a ruger gp-100 just because I knew if I made a mistake it would shrug off the over or undercharge. And my taurus .357 Ive been shooting longer than most kids in this forum have even been around

So, wheel guns only have an extra 50 years of use over autos, which in the big scheme of firearms design isnt much.

I think that perception comes from law enforcement.

It's not like I'm unwilling to kill someone who's endangering me or any of the kids I watch, its just that I would prefer not to.

Really you don't want to shoot somebody period.

I took a defensive handgun class where they told us that if you shoot somebody, even for 100% justifiable reasons, you will spend $250k in court costs getting through it.

That's the material impact.

As far as how it effects you emotionally or morally, that's between you and yourself.

I would just caution you against two things:

1) Thinking you're in better legal shape by not killing somebody attacking you.

2) Thinking you have much say over whether somebody you shoot lives or dies.

I'm not totally certain about 1, it may be that you will catch less hell if you just injure the dude, but I'm pretty certain about #2. When you shoot somebody, you shoot somebody. You can't do much besides just shoot him. You certainly can't aim for "not his major arteries."

I took an EMT class and have a god complex, if I shoot the guy I think I can save him.

Is hollow point legal to use btw?

halonachos wrote:I took an EMT class and have a god complex, if I shoot the guy I think I can save him.

Is hollow point legal to use btw?

They are legal- and strongly suggested for self defense.

Yes- they are more lethal- but if you are shooting someone in self defense- you wont have the privilege of time on your side. You dont get to knee cap them, its generally 'Omfg! WTF?' and if you've trained enough- the bang part happens between those two. If you cant cope with the thought of someone dying becuase you shot them- buy a baseball bat Also- any medical aid you render to someone you shot is going to be scrutinized should it go to trial- they may accuse you of trying to finish him off with medical negligence, or trying to destroy evidence etc etc. If ya shoot someone- just call 911. make sure the gun is made safe before the police arrive. You'll be going away in handcuffs too, and almost assuredly spending the night in orange pajamas- and meeting entertaining people that didnt get shot.

Other practicalities of hollow points. If you shoot the bad guy- the hollow point will stop in him- not punch out the other side and fly into your family/freinds, neighbors, or wandering livestock. 'Over penetration' was a pretty critical factor in many Police departments adopting hollow points through the 70's and 80's.

And to stay on topic- using a Mauser 98k- with a bayonet affixed- might serve as enough deterrent to not need to use hollow points

I took an EMT class and have a god complex, if I shoot the guy I think I can save him.

FWIW, handgun bullets are not especially lethal, and generally if the guy isn't dead immediately, he'll make it. So, basically, you're not going to save him, he'll either die or he won't.

'not especially lethal' ? There are definitely worse things to be shot by. So Im guessing you're comparing it to something else? Getting gored by a rhino? Hit by a bus?

400 ft/lbs of energy dropping through a mushroomed hollowpoint putting enough hydrostatic shock to balloon your internals around a 6-12 inch shock/trauma cavity is pretty horrible. And thats just if the bullet doesnt directly poke a hole through anything vital.

Watch some high speed vid of bullets going into ballistic gel. Then imagine the gel is someones internal parts moving around- difference being they can only move around so much before them pesky ribs get in the way

Theyre plenty lethal- thats why when you shoot someone- even with a lil ole 22 its considered lethal force...

So Im guessing you're comparing it to something else?

I'm comparing it to your odds of being killed.

Certainly you don't want to be shot, but if you do get shot, it's not instant death. You're actually probably going to live.

http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/gunshot_wounds_and_you/

Key quote:

"a. If you are shot you have an 80% chance to survive.
b. If you are going to die, you are probably going to die on-scene."

I can't speak to the veracity of that article, and I did see some contradictory stuff while I was searching, but that's more or less in line with what I was taught during the defensive handgun classes I was in.

Could be totally false, I've never been shot, and my plans for the future don't involve getting shot (at least not with real bullets).

Those numbers might be on the freindly side- and totally dependant on immediate medical attention. Youre right that they usually arnt instant kill shots ala hollywood. But Id be willing to bet those numbers are taken from a variety of shootings- and most people are too cheap to use expensive hollow points for drive bys and gang shootings- ball ammo is pretty abysmal and is used in many shootings just because its the easiest stuff to find.