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hehe, Goreshade is the bastard, but denny is a real b*tch

hehe.
I hope my friend who most likely will play cryx doesn't go for her.
But shes in the battlebox thing though so...Oh Dear.

Any good counters come to mind right now?

Depends on your caster of choiche and jacks. (could not find it very fast...

With a Khador battlebox Sorcha you could have a pretty good time against her. The destroyer might still miss when feated, but if you boost to hit against the slayer it has a good chance to do a direct hit. That means the slayer will more then likely lose an arm (boost damage too)

Sorcha can boost her defense to 18 with ease by casting fog of war and higher when using that movement spell (I think she is then 20). Even denny can't reliably hit that...

The destroyer is the one jack that is less affected imho when grasped, as it can make due with moving 2 inch because it's gun has a nice range...

When engaging or about to engage bonejacks you can debuf their biggest strength, defense) by making them stationary with the feat. Even with reduced damage because of the feat and or crippling grasp you should be doing dice or dice+1

Other casters have other tricks, but I think sorcha is a good matchup.

If you are running Sorcha... do not let an arc node run into her face.
If pDenny has any other ranged elements, it could prove hazardous.

She can arc a Scourge that can knock down those in the blast. Close enough, it can't miss. Turns that 18 to a sad panda.

To top it off, her feat gets around the high def and lowers it a bit, but with scourge around you are more happy with the ARM lowering.

So, if you think this is a possibility (IE you can't kill the arcs fast enough), camp focus if you can or kill her before she gets the chance to throw up this particular combo.

Laughing Man wrote:Crippling Grasped Khadorans? God forbid she feats, SPD 0 sucks... :(

If anything then SPD 1. You can never have any stat lower than 1 (and DEF never below 5).

A small unit of iron fang pikes will help against arc nodes. Fan them out to ensure maxumum engagement area, or double up on 2" melee arcs to cover potential gaps exposded by attacks, and an arc node will have a hard time running in without getting engaged and thus unable to get in.

Oh and don't worry about that TFG trying to do his f'ing thing. Although... just make sure you know the rules well and keep up to date on rulings. Sometimes those types deliberately misread the rules to their favor, and with WM a period, comma, or bit of grammar will really mean the difference. Also, don't let him fudge movement distances and the like, .5" is a bigger thing than it is in 40k, so edge of base to same edge of base movement, and enforce it. For example, many guns have a range of around 10" or 8", that also happens to be pretty close to the 7" to 9" charge ranges for a lot of stuff. Fudging a bit of movement for that extra .5" is the difference between getting the charge, or failing it and losing that unit.

With def 15 bonejacks can get in. Especcialy on feat turn... On the other hand the denny-user will have to pick who gets crippling grasped, as it could be more usefull on the ironfangs then on the heavys...

Yeah, but free strikes get +2 to hit and an additional die on damage. Those bonuses are enough to hit, and do some damage to bonejacks. Not to mention you have a chance of crit knockdown on the bonejack, or doing enough damage to knock out its arc node.

I was gonna go with the butcher for my 1st caster no sorcha but if she is easier to then it means my wallet won't hate me so much

Viking Scott, I have my own take on starting Warmachine it differs from the other advice given to you:


1. Get two or three warjacks. I would go for the Into box containing Sorcsha a Juggernaut and a Destroyer and one other warjack. I am tempted to say a second Destroyer here as it provides no nonsense firepower and a big axe for those who dont take the hint when the cannon fires.

2. Get one or two small unit boxes. I would go for Widowmakers, and Man O War Stromtroopers. Again they are basic choices providing ranged and close combat power.

3. Get a large infantry units, either some WinterGuard and command attachment, or Iron Fang Pikemen with command attachment. Get a full unit of twelve in total. HINT: If you have the army deck or Army Book, you can buy two unit boxes and convert up a standard bearer and officer with stuff from your bitz box.

4. Also get a solo. A good place to start is a Manhunter.

5. Now buy whatever warcasters you can get hold of. I would stick to Butcher, Vlad and Karchev with this lot. Buy a minimum of two, though you can include Sorscha in the two.

This is only a humble beginning, most warcasters wont work well with what you have got, however what this collection will teach you is how Khador works. It doesnt matter why warcaster is easiest, that will teach you nothing, you need to start with at least two and an ecclectic mix of units like I recommended, dry test your army and have a thing of what could do what and where. Pay attention to the different combos or abilities and spells, and not just those of the warcaster.

Now start expanding your force. Get one or two solos, particularly named solos, another one or two warjacks and a good amount of infantry. Block infantry are the only units you should duplicate except the Destroyer warjack. yes you can take two or three of almost anything, but it gets expensive and is wasteful. If you want to completely change the character of your army you could buy x units, or just swap out your warcaster. At this point you should be getting your hands on every warcaster you can.

The trick to playing Warmachine is to get the feel for the options, you want get that with a cushioned list of an easy warcaster and a tailored small army to match him. Dont be afraid to experiment, you could try a 'tactical exercise' of setting one half of your army, however small, against the other and then seeing what you can do with both sides against yourself. That is the quickest way to be ready.

Vertrucio wrote:Yeah, but free strikes get +2 to hit and an additional die on damage. Those bonuses are enough to hit, and do some damage to bonejacks. Not to mention you have a chance of crit knockdown on the bonejack, or doing enough damage to knock out its arc node.

Unless she uses her skarlock to Ghostwalk the bonejack.

Laughing Man wrote:Crippling Grasped Khadorans? God forbid she feats, SPD 0 sucks... :(

Oh. Lol. I didn't consider that they were already debuffed.

skrulnik wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Yeah, but free strikes get +2 to hit and an additional die on damage. Those bonuses are enough to hit, and do some damage to bonejacks. Not to mention you have a chance of crit knockdown on the bonejack, or doing enough damage to knock out its arc node.

Unless she uses her skarlock to Ghostwalk the bonejack.

Oh dear, I feel silly forgetting about that.

What's the main difference between Focus and Fury?

Warcasters allocate focus to their warjacks so they can boost, and get it back for free their next turn. Warlocks, on the other hand, force (add fury) their warbeasts to boost, then pull the fury in next turn to cast their spells.

Basically, focus goes out, fury goes in.

Warlocks tend to be able to cast far more of their spells every turn, simply because they don't have to hand out their resource. Casters, on the other hand, tend to be more durable, with larger spell lists, and aren't screwed if all their 'Jacks bite the dust.

I think the line I heard was:

Focus: Resource Management.
Fury: Risk Management.

Hmm interesting.
Could you give me an example of this risk?

Oh man, as shown on another PP thread, I am not on top of Hordes .

Risk... lets see.

Risk, if the beasts have too much fury after the Warlock takes the fury off, then the beasts may frenzy when they fail a threshold check. After which there are rules that dictate the moves over to something and whacks on it.

The 'reward' for this can be seen as somewhat doubled magic capabilities, because the Animus can be seen as part of the warlocks' spell list and the beasts can be forced to use it too almost like doubling the fury used.

There is also saving fury to transfer...that is the mechanic they use defensively instead of the overboosted power fields. It's both great and no so great, cause the beast takes the damage and they are your source for more fury.

Something like that. I'm still just a newbie with Warmachine and a sprinkle of info on Hordes :-(

The advantage to Fury is that you can get a heck of a lot more boosts and bought attacks than a Warjack can, especially from a Heavy with a Fury stat of 5 (I <3 Bronzebacks). On the downside? If you do that with a lot of warbeasts, you won't be able to pull in all that excess Fury, which means any beasts with fury left on them might frenzy and charge the closest model, friend or foe.

The other main risk is when transferring: If a model is full up on Fury, it's not a legal transfer target. So, if you run all your beasts as hot as they can go, you won't be able to pawn hits off onto your mooks warbeasts.

Hmm. Having only read the quick start rules I don't understand.
I looked a the Circle Oboris and just fell in love the the Warpborn Skinwalkers and the Wolves of Oboris. Oh and Feral Warpwolves.


Yes I know I am Fickle. I am just glad I've baught nothing yet.


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I see now about the risk thing. I started the Hordes quick start rules.

I read about healing. So it seems a good straegy against hordes would be to focus attacks onto a single beat until it is killed?
Although now I notice you can't heal that much.

I think Hordes seems a bit simpler to me at least (maybe because I've read the confusing bit twice! ) And circle does seem tempting....

Pros and Cons of Warbeasts

Warbeasts in general have higher DEF and Lower Arm and Fewer boxes than warjacks.

Warbeast can be forced for boosts up to their FRY stat (so a Warp Wolf will be able to boost 4 times as long as he is in the warlocks CTRL area).

Warbeasts that have fury on them after leaching (the process of a warlock pulling fury off of warbeasts) risk frenzy. Losing a 9 point beast to frenzy can cost you the game.

Warlocks vs Warcasters

Warcasters have the ability to boost their ARM with spare focus. This means a few hard hits are the ideal way to kill a warcaster.

Warlocks usually have low arm and spend fury to transfer hits to their beasts. This means that many lower pow hits are the ideal way to kill a warlock.

Warlocks usually have to be closer to the front. Warjacks can be allocated focus and then they can leave their warcaster's CTRL area and still boost. Warbeasts have to be in their caster's CTRL area, so that forces the warlock to be closer to the front.

Hordes vs Warmachine

Hordes has an early game advantage, as Beasts are able to boost many more times on average than warjacks.

Warmachine has the late game advantage as warlocks get less powerful as beasts die (warlocks loose sources of fury) while warcasters always get their focus stat in focus every round.

Warmachine has more options available to it as it is the older game. In general, this leads to a slight composition advantage for WM.

Overall

The two systems are balanced to the point the player will make more of a difference than the System or Faction. In general, I find new players have an easier time adjusting to fury than to focus as it involves less planning ahead with allocation and you're less likely to be immediately assassinated if you're sitting on fury for transfers.

I'm glad I haven't bought anything yet!
I keep changing sides!
Sorry about that. Everyone gives me great advice but I go nullifing it be going Ooohh at a model a haven't seen yet and switch faction.