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nosferatu1001 wrote:

skyth wrote:Hey, you're always welcome to house-rule it and have Focused Ruminations give you the extra D6 for bound spells.

You're welcome to houserule it and pretend that something specifically stated as not being a modifier (check the rule again, it states itisnt a modifer *at all*) IS a modifer, and therefore make FR not work. Up to you.

I'll go with Skype. You just keep hammering the same thing over and over, somehow assuming you can beat people down. Doesn't seem to be working, and yes, we do read your posts. Reading them doesn't make us magically agree with them.

Play it your way. Others will play it differently. At a tournament, ask the TO.

Valueless posts abound....

Skyth didnt read the post, as I had answered the question. Not agreeing with it is not the same thing at all.

Actually, I did read the post and like I said, you are using the definition for one thing for something else, thus having a logical error rendering your argument invalid.

Which i refuted, and you then ignored. Making your rebuttal(s) harping on about the same point still invalid. But carry on, believe what you want to.

Actually, your refutal was just restating the same, incorrect thing. Unless you mean when you said that since casting involves rolling dice, it must be a die roll modifier...Which is incorrect because casting involves more than rolling dice.

So try again.

Nope, dont need to.

As I have already said, I am convinced, I have no need to convince you.

Well, at least I convinced the silent majority

If the extra die counts as a power die in respect to the maximum number of dice pool, then wouldn't it be modifying the dice pool and not the casting roll?

Shush, apparently everything is a modifier in skyths world...

If you treat focused rumination as a modifier, then would you say that a Slann who casts a spell with 1 "normal" die, then gets a free one from rumination, but rolls a 1 or 2 on the normal die has failed to cast per the rules on a natural 1 or 2 without bonuses?

I can't see that being true at all. I really don't think the die roll is a modifier in any sense of the word, although I do think the "who is casting" is a much closer call.

Again, die roll modifier is different than casting modifier.

and focused rumination is neither, but a modifier of the Power Dice Pool.

It's a different than the normal casting process, thus it modifies casting and is thus a casting modifier which is prohibited from being used on bound items.

I agree with you Arion. But Skyth, the failure on 1 or 2 doesn't say "die roll modifier" it says it is a failure "regardless of any bonus from any source"

Well, it is a bonus, so if the rules say that, then it would fail if it doesn't get greater than 2 without the bonus die.

skyth wrote:It's a different than the normal casting process, thus it modifies casting and is thus a casting modifier which is prohibited from being used on bound items.

Well, if we are applying this to FR, we must then apply it to Master of the Black Arts, Standard of Sorcery, and any other item/ability that grants extra power dice.

Those items don't modify the normal casting process. Focused RUminations has an effect on each spell that is cast.

sure they do, you gain Power Dice through unconventional means. they Modify the Power Dice Pool just like Focus, only difference being that they have to be used at the beginning of the phase. Again Focus DOES NOT modify the casting, merely the Power Pool.

When it is dependant on casting a spell to get it, and cannot not be used, it is a modification of the standard casting process.

If it were, then it wouldn't be included in the maximum power dice in the pool. I'm sorry, there is just too much evidence stacked against you, you are just unwilling to see it.

I haven't seen any evisdence against it being a casting modification. I've just seen people try to twist what the rules say to come up with what they want the answer to be.

By casting, you add a die to the power pool that must be used. That is a modification of the standard casting procedure, as normally casting a spell doesn't add a die to the pool.

Personally, I've been convinced on the casting modifier portion of the rule (that FR isn't a casting modifier, that is).

However, I wasn't convinced on the item/model casting the spell... and I think that's where the crux of the argument is (as someone said last page). And that's where you'll have to 4+ it, or ask the TO at an event.

In practice though, it's not going to come up... in fact, I might offer to a LM player to have an extra dice on a bound spell, if that means they wouldn't take cupped hands

RiTides wrote:
In practice though, it's not going to come up... in fact, I might offer to a LM player to have an extra dice on a bound spell, if that means they wouldn't take cupped hands

+ a whole bunch!

"In practice though, it's not going to come up... in fact, I might offer to a LM player to have an extra dice on a bound spell, if that means they wouldn't take cupped hands "

NEVER!!!!!

I know your frustration with Slann and FR in particular RiTides, and you seem like a pretty cool dude that would be fun to play against.... but c'mon... Slann with FR and Cupped Hands is just so damn fun.

Well, for the LM player anyway LOL

RiTides wrote:In practice though, it's not going to come up... in fact, I might offer to a LM player to have an extra dice on a bound spell, if that means they wouldn't take cupped hands

Actully this thread was started with "blood statuette of spite" in mind so i'd still get both

Arion wrote: I'm sorry, there is just too much evidence stacked against you, you are just unwilling to see it.

A statement that could be applied by both sides of this arguement, and I think has already.)

Until it's FAQ'd, you're just going to have to ask a TO at a tournament how he sees it. TO's really do have to 'Make da Call' in these situations, and players have to accept it that it's going to get played that way at that tournament. In a friendly game, you either batter your opponent verbally until he gives in, or roll a 4+ to decide it.

I think FR is a modifier to casting, and can't be used on bound items. It's how I'lll make da call, and how we will play it in my area.

Feel free to have a different opinion.

mikhaila, would you count FR as a bonus to the "1, 2" rule for casting?

Killjoy00 wrote:mikhaila, would you count FR as a bonus to the "1, 2" rule for casting?

This is the point where I've said I'm done discussing things, stated how I'll Make Da Call, you don't like the answer, so you want to get statements from me that you can then interpret in such a way to show that I'm inconsistant and that you're right about the original topic.

Don't feel like playing the game. Sorry.

I'll stick with "No you can't use FR to add a dice to the casting value of a bound spell". I'm ok with you not liking my reasons, my logic, or how I came to the conclusion.

Feel free to play it otherwise in friendly games. Ask the TO at tournaments.

It's not a game. I'm legitimate interested (and almost started a new thread). How would you Make Da Call on Focused Rumination and "Not Enough Power"?

Not to mention you must now keep all Power Dice gained in unconventional ways from being used on bound Items i.e. Standard of Sorcery, Master of the Black Arts et al. If you don't want to play our "game" that's fine, but they are legitimate questions. you can't have it not count for bound Items, but still count to modify the score of a 1 or a 2 on the "natural" die. You also can't let those other items that give you power dice work when casting bound spells, because that is the same thing. You have to go all or nothing, you can't pick and choose.