Games Workshop (ex)Employee

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**BearersOfSalvation**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

**Ma55ter_fett**

spireland wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:
spireland wrote:

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Being someones supervisor does not all of a sudden give you the right to treat that person however you want. Speak to your subordinates politely, perhaps with anger, but politely. Yelling is unacceptable anywhere where employees know their rights.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ruckdog wrote:

It sounds like you might be talking about the Harbor Center (it has a large lighthouse in the parking lot).

That's it, thats where it was.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

Still makes you sound like an ass.

Rule #1 Frazz....be polite!

It's crazy, but supervisors/bosses can yell/be jerks as long as they do it equally. In California every two years if you supervise employees you have to sit through two hours of harrasment training and I've had to sit through many over the years. Do a quick search, it sounds crazy but its true. If the harrasment is equal to everyone it is not harrasment. It has to target one protected class in order to be a hostile work environment.

From http://employeeissues.com/hostile_work_environment.htm

" ....to be illegal under one of the laws in the eyes of the courts, a hostile work environment typically must be caused by discriminatory workplace harassment based on race, color, religion, national origin, disability, genetics, age or sex..."

So if I grope all the female employee’s equally they can't raise a fuss?

**sourclams**

That would specifically fall under sexual harassment.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

There have been accounts of such behaviour in GW stores above so it is not OT Bearers

**Frazzled**

Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?
***unless a reason cited above, special state legislation, or a contract/union rules that would be NO.

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
***Yep, and time honored tradition.

Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?
***Depends on the culture of that company and location. Shouting is much more customary in our NY offices. Here, you get in a shouting match with someone it might result in a hospital visit. Different cultures.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

There have been accounts of such behaviour in GW stores above so it is not OT Bearers

Its called Life (TM)

**Foo**

BearersOfSalvation wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:Actually, no they cannot. It's called creating a hostile work environment...and there are laws against it.

No, there aren't - if you think there are, cite the specific laws. There is a myth that there is some sort of "Harassment" law that prevent all sorts of things, but it just isn't true.

If a supervisor is yelling AT YOU, collectively or just you, he needs to back away from the coffee machine and calm down. Supervisors have no right to raise voices to employees. Not in America they don't.

Unless you have an employment contract stating otherwise, your only right is to quit if you don't like working conditions. A supervisor can talk as mean to you as he wants and, as long as it's not sexual harassment or discriminating against a protected class, is in violation of no laws.

...

Again, if you think that supervisors can't raise voices at employees in the US, tell us exactly what law it violates. You're not going to find one, because there are very, very few protections for workers in the US.

Everyone should be aware of their rights as a worker, as they vary greatly from country to country and state/province to state/province. As you say, there are probably quite a few places (likely "right to work" states) where you aren't protected from this sort of thing. The important thing is knowing for sure and standing up for yourself.

Go online and search for worker's rights in your country/state/province and get informed because in most first world places, you have the right to be treated with dignity in the workplace.

Also: know your company's employment standards. Most companies (at least the larger ones) will have guidelines and standards around reasons and processes for terminations, warnings, behaviour and such for both employees and managers. Know these!

**Frazzled**

Er Canadian law differs strongly from US law.

**BearersOfSalvation**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:But why is it that people in any workplace, retail or otherwise, can be abused when this would not be deemed acceptable elsewhere?

It's not, in general, illegal to yell at someone outside of work either. For example, if you come to my house, it's legal for me to yell at you. If I track mud into my parent's house, they can yell at me. If someone cuts me off in traffic, I can yell at them. Doing things that are not illegal is acceptable to the legal system, so it's as acceptable there as elsewhere. Just calling something 'abuse' doesn't make it illegal, and in discussions about employment I've seen people claim 'abuse' for something like 'the manager told me I was going to be fired if I didn't follow the rules'.

"I don't like it when someone does this thing" does not mean "this thing is absolutely illegal".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Foo wrote:Everyone should be aware of their rights as a worker, as they vary greatly from country to country and state/province to state/province. As you say, there are probably quite a few places (likely "right to work" states) where you aren't protected from this sort of thing. The important thing is knowing for sure and standing up for yourself.

You are not protected from a manager yelling at you by law in any US state, your statement is misleading because it implies that only some do not have this protection. I don't know about, and am not commenting on Canadian law. Whether the state forbids contracts that require all employees at a site to be in a union or not (which is the distinction between a 'right to work' state or not) is completely irrelevant.

**Kilkrazy**

BearersOfSalvation wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

I would suggest consulting a lawyer. In the UK, bullying behaviour is covered by laws on assault, apart from any specific workplace legislation. The US of course is a separate legislation.

**Phayse**

Kilkrazy wrote:
BearersOfSalvation wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken? Is this acceptable behaviour in society? Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

You can request that the person stop, you can ask someone higher up the food chain to tell him to stop, or you can quit your job and find one that you like. There isn't any form of legal action you can take - you can't sue the company or person for money, get the person or company arrested or fined, or force the company to transfer you or them elsewhere. If you really want to discuss this side topic, we should move it to a new thread in OT since it's not really what this thread is about. I just wanted to correct some bad information that can easily get someone into trouble if they rely on it.

I would suggest consulting a lawyer. In the UK, bullying behaviour is covered by laws on assault, apart from any specific workplace legislation. The US of course is a separate legislation.

Unfortunately when the case goes to tribunal, they tend to wiggle out on technicalities - such as the fact I punched him back.

>_>

That's what killed it for me and the world of work. Lost several jobs in the steel industry, which I loved. Then spent years floating from tin pot customer service and legal aid roles, each one more ethically challenged than the last. Then spent a year or so working for probation and drugs services. I don't imagine I'll be returning to work until the manufacturing industry picks up again. There's laws for your personal wellbeing, but they aren't very well enforced.

**anticitizen013**

Kilkrazy wrote:Current employees will not admit their identity as it could compromise their position with the company.

I laughed so hard the first time I heard of this... it's too funny!

**weeble1000**

The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

In some states it is termed "outrage," which I find interesting considering that previous posters have taken the position that such outrageous treatment which would not be tolerated in civil society would be allowed to happen in the workplace with no potential remedy. Indeed, such outrageous treatment potentially involves a legal remedy as long as damaged has been caused. And the social dynamics of a workplace situation can magnify the potential for measurable and identifiable harm.

In any event, the employee handbook likely prohibits such treatment in the first place, so seeking a remedy within the company is likely a good place to start.

**Frazzled**

weeble1000 wrote:The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

In some states it is termed "outrage," which I find interesting considering that previous posters have taken the position that such outrageous treatment which would not be tolerated in civil society would be allowed to happen in the workplace with no potential remedy. Indeed, such outrageous treatment potentially involves a legal remedy as long as damaged has been caused. And the social dynamics of a workplace situation can magnify the potential for measurable and identifiable harm.

In any event, the employee handbook likely prohibits such treatment in the first place, so seeking a remedy within the company is likely a good place to start.

Please try that in court. Tell us how it works out.

**BearersOfSalvation**

weeble1000 wrote:The fact that something happens in the workplace doesn't act as a shield against that which is illegal outside of the workplace. In fact, the power/authority of a boss, manager, etc. can exacerbate the emotional impact of harsh language, threats, and other kinds of abuse.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not illegal to yell at people outside of the workplace, so the 'act as a shield' bit doesn't even make any sense. Rudeness is not generally illegal, regardless of how much you want mean people to go to jail.

Take a look at "intentional infliction of emotional distress."

In the US, emotional distress is legally defined as, "A highly unpleasant mental reaction (such as anguish, grief, fright, humiliation, or fury) that results from another person's conduct; emotional pain and suffering. Emotional distress, when severe enough, can form the basis for the recovery of tort damages."

Can you cite any cases, at all, where a manager was successfully sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress for yelling at an employee in the workplace? No, because those cases don't exist outside of your imagination. Using words that crop up in legal cases like 'harassment', 'hostile workplace', or 'infliction of emotional distress' doesn't magically mean that you magically have created new law, it means that you heard some terms and are stringing them together.

**Formosa**

if you live in LA, you can claim workers comp for stress.

http://www.articlesbase.com/personal-injury-articles/los-angeles-work-related-stress-find-legal-help-1369275.html

**Maxim C. Gatling**

When I worked closing shift at CompUSA they'd lock the doors and keep us inside (unpaid) until the night manager finished their thing. That stopped when several employees threatened to press charges for kidnapping.

Seriously. I called the police myself and another guy said 'Fuggit' and walked out via the emergency doors. They tried to fire him but their lawyers warned them it would be very, very expensive to do that...hee hee!

I've been to about 10 different GW Retail shops. As a customer, it's completely transparent that the annoying sales routine is mandatory at all shops. It's the same at all of them. Most of the employees were very nice and helpful (not all, mind you, but most) and I don't hold their strongarm tactics against them as I know it's Corporate that's causing it.

**Worglock**

spireland wrote:
Deadshane1 wrote:I'm thankful to hear that the guy was let go, if it's true. I suspect it is. I vaguely remember meeting up with my former manager there at a Games day some years later and him telling me that he was forced to move on.

Grade A D-bag indeed.

If you work in the U.S. NEVER let a supervisor YELL at you. It's called Harassment, there are laws against it.

@Ruckdog

The Annapolis Mall location, (i think) opened after the initial annapolis location closed. The oringinal store was located in a strip mall right next to a large AMC or REGAL theatre. I forget what the strip mall was called.

Supervisors can yell, if they yell at everyone equally. If they only yell at a few, or certain types of employees its Harassment.

I would have to say that this type of behavior is not exclusive to GW and is a systemic problem of any low wage retail environment. I worked for Wizards of the Coast when they had retail stores 10+ years ago and had a similar experience.

considering that most states are "right to work" (ie: right to be fired for any reason), those kind of managers can do whatever they damn well please.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

Fearspect wrote:Funny stories I have heard in the past few months from friends I have working at a GW shop:

1) Despite being the third-highest sales store in North America (next to the Chicago Battle Bunker and one in Toronto), they were chastised by their regional manager for being behind on sales so far this year. Note that last year had Spacehulk. They were told that they should have followed the example of another shop and kept their sales low so that they could beat it easier (each year the target is +10% sales).

2) They were told to absolutely stop running their weekly tournaments on the weekends, which ran on Saturdays and were open to 8 player teams of two, because the company was unwilling to allow any involvement with tournaments that involved prizes. These tournaments constantly lead directly to new revenue as people would constantly tweak their lists to be placed as 'Best in Store'.

3) Similarly, they ran a huge escalation league out of the store for Fantasy. Again, huge revenues generated from sales. This was shut down (despite an employee running it in their off-hours) because of the prizes situation, along with being told that they should be focusing on new customers, not the vets (hint, those people are the reason this store does so well).

They constantly innovate to try and generate sales, and are shut down. Despite this, their manager is constantly travelling to the quarterly managers meetings to lecture on how to run an effective store. I have no clue what sort of credentials people hold to be made regional managers, but obviously this is not the only one that doesn't understand what is important.

I managed in a local comic chain and it was the same thing. They hated tournaments being run and wanted to sell out of starter sets of everything (even the things wal-mart had cheaper and a MONTH earlier than us). It's really, really stupid justification behind it.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

My response over the past few years has been to ask them to lower their voice and to calm down repeatedly til they treat me like another human being. Any time this has made them angrier, it just makes for a better story for HR and has ended up with them getting their ass chewed out (yay beneficial hypocrisy). Having a pair helps, even if you really need the job. I'm glad I'm in a union now that makes sure this kind of thing doesn't happen to me.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:When I worked closing shift at CompUSA they'd lock the doors and keep us inside (unpaid) until the night manager finished their thing. That stopped when several employees threatened to press charges for kidnapping.

Seriously. I called the police myself and another guy said 'Fuggit' and walked out via the emergency doors. They tried to fire him but their lawyers warned them it would be very, very expensive to do that...hee hee!

I've been to about 10 different GW Retail shops. As a customer, it's completely transparent that the annoying sales routine is mandatory at all shops. It's the same at all of them. Most of the employees were very nice and helpful (not all, mind you, but most) and I don't hold their strongarm tactics against them as I know it's Corporate that's causing it.

This used to happen at Dillard's. Someone called the fire department and they chopped through the glass doors with axes. That entire shift was let go and the Dillard's lawyers made sure nothing bad happened to them or their image as it mysteriously didn't appear in the news despite some (then ex)employees being interviewed about it. Absolute bs.

**raincity**

bluedestiny wrote:I was a still a full timer 1 yr ago at GW. Had both up and down moments. The only thing i hate more then kids that is annoying you on purpose and idiots who comes into the store to steal stuff or cause trouble...............

10 COMMANDMENTS!!!!!

Burn it!!!!

I think those commandments are an australia only deal..
At the store I worked at we had fortnightly meetings, (on a goddamn saturday evening) and the first thing we did was have to write them out word for word like a test...
I see the value in knowing what they are and how they help but word for word? gimme a break..
I also had up and down moments, the store was great most of the time, the constant critiquing got a bit much for me though.
The main reason i quit was because i was feeling pressured to work weekdays during school holidays (i was a casual) when I already had a fulltime job that paid way more.
Figured I'd quit before it got ugly.

**Necros**

I haven't been to a GW store in a while.. I used to stop in the Franklin Mills store once in a while when it was still around, and I never had any kinda hard sell from anyone. Someone would ask if I needed help, or strike up a quick conversation about what I was buying.. maybe the occasional "need any glue?" when they ring me up.. that's about it. Always had friendly, nice folks working there whenever I was in, which wasn't often but still.

**gpfunk**

May I just say this? Middle management of ANY kind is absolute gak. Nothing but gak.

Store managers, regional managers. Basically anything that lies between bottom retail employee and CEO is automatically destined to be ill tempered and unreasonable.

**Neconilis**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Surely if some one is being verbally abused and intimitated in the work place there is some form of action that can be taken?

Is this acceptable behaviour in society?
Would similar behaviour be tolerated elsewhere?

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

**Kirasu**

Verbal abuse is called being passive aggressive and it is totally tolerated by society

Physical abuse or sexual her-ass-ment is a big no no but you can cut people down with emotional/verbal abuse until they jump off a building all you want!

Why? Because its hard to prove and also its one of those things that others dont identify with very easily unless they are abused by the exact same person

Just gotta deal with it generally or ignore it. Good old british anti-bullying laws. Everyone knows the best way to deal with them is to ignore them not piss them off by crying to the police

If you want to deal with it on a legal basis you need to keep ACCURATE records and you must also express verbally and in writing that is make you feel uncomfortable

Also, once you do start keep records be prepared to be fired for any number of fake reasons (If youre in the USA). There are like 8 million people looking for work so a lot of employee protection fall by the wayside

**micahaphone**

I like how the article in the Guardian says

The Guardian wrote: the robotic "How can I help you?" mantras that only really make sense in America, because they're so friendly they actually mean it.

I thought America was the donkey-cave of the planet, and that the brits were supposed to be the gentlemen?

**fullheadofhair**

micahaphone wrote:I like how the article in the Guardian says

The Guardian wrote: the robotic "How can I help you?" mantras that only really make sense in America, because they're so friendly they actually mean it.

I thought America was the donkey-cave of the planet, and that the brits were supposed to be the gentlemen?

Absolutely not. customer service is non-existant in the UK, especially restaurents where even the receipt says "service not included".

**micahaphone**

Wow. I'm surprised that in one setting, the US is more polite and helpful than the UK.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

Not my general experience.

sorry to disillusion you chaps, but most people I encounter are still friendly and helpful.

I am more perplexed by the apparent willingness to accept boorish behaviour if the responses to my question are anything to go by.
eg

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Might be true in your neck of the woods, but it is not the case in the UK.
Sure it happens, but it is not tolerated and there are frameworks for protecting people against it.

**TheGreyJedi**

Man. 3 pages. What a fire I started!

Deadshane1, whitedragon, I had a similar experience. Our manager was kinda shady on practices, especially with our employee discount.

Man, I miss that discount. Mmmm, cheap-ass pewter. So many Dark Angels.

But the Key-Timers like me, and the rest of the Redshirts were pretty cool. One was a physics teacher full-time, and did the job mostly for the discount and a little extra money. Really funny guy, great gamer.

When the Regional guys came down and fired the manager they fired everybody but one guy. Hence then, the store itself was declared EXCOMMUNICATE TRAITORIS and shut down.

I also wish I had known my rights as an employee better. Retail is a far worse work environment than it should be. On the good days, I got paid to play Warhammer and Warhammer40K as well as paint. I got paid to learn how to do both BETTER. On the bad days, I felt horrible for twisting people into buying way more crap than they needed or wanted.

But if it weren't for those months at GW, I wouldn't be into this game that I like so much.

**Skinnereal**

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

Many schools? Around family members? Society tolerates it plenty, and usually to far more damaging effects.

Might be true in your neck of the woods, but it is not the case in the UK.
Sure it happens, but it is not tolerated and there are frameworks for protecting people against it.

Most schools are now forced to have an anti-bullying policy, available to anyone who asks to see it.
I think it was one of the child protection charities that got it put in place.
The school is forced to report bullying to the police, once it gets to a certain number of instances or too violent, I think.

In the workplace, wrongful-dismissal often gets mentioned when people report harassment and are fired for imaginary reasons.

As for customer service, Having to deal with the grumpy sod behind the counter is normal, and the UK's customer service is hardly up to scratch. It's one reason I haven't left corporate computer support. Got to keep the side up.

[Edit: Why can't I spell Anti these days :( ]

**Kilkrazy**

micahaphone wrote:Wow. I'm surprised that in one setting, the US is more polite and helpful than the UK.

It depends where you go. I've had some terrible customer service experiences in the USA, while the UK is fine most of the time.

Japan is the place for good service. It's a bit too good some of the time, and makes you impatient to get on with things. You still get some bad service on rare occasions.