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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 03:25:51
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:The idea that value is entirely subjective is stupid.
No it isn't, its right.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 03:53:27
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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dogma wrote:Melissia wrote:The idea that value is entirely subjective is stupid.
No it isn't, its right.
Most assuredly not. It's partially subjective, but there's many things which are objectively more valuable. Someone might not think that the various forms of refuse disposal is as valuable as holding a piece of leather while running, but the latter is an entirely optional luxury, while the former is pretty much necessary as without it they'd be swimming in their own filth (sometimes quite literally if you include plumbing in that category). If someone made the decision to forgo garbage disposal and plumbing in order to watch a couple dozen sweaty men run around a field for a few hours, they'd probably be seen as a bit mentally unstable. And rightfully so, as that was a stupid decision because the garbage disposal and plumbing were objectively the better decision. That the two dozen sweaty men running around a field are paid more is simply a flaw of capitalism, rather than proof of value. This is why we make the distinction between luxuries and necessities to begin with. edit: Don't take this as an endorsement of other economic theories  I'm not bashing on capitalism, merely pointing out that it, like all other things made by humans, is flawed.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/09/18 03:55:29
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 04:29:08
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:Most assuredly not. It's partially subjective, but there's many things which are objectively more valuable. Someone might not think that the various forms of refuse disposal is as valuable as holding a piece of leather while running, but the latter is an entirely optional luxury, while the former is pretty much necessary as without it they'd be swimming in their own filth (sometimes quite literally if you include plumbing in that category).
When you use the qualifier "pretty much" you indicate that value is relative. I might, for example, enjoy swimming in my own filth.
Melissia wrote:
If someone made the decision to forgo garbage disposal and plumbing in order to watch a couple dozen sweaty men run around a field for a few hours, they'd probably be seen as a bit mentally unstable.
Which has no bearing on value. I can value X very highly, and be seen as mentally unstable.
Melissia wrote:
And rightfully so, as that was a stupid decision because the garbage disposal and plumbing were objectively the better decision.
No, they weren't. Because there is no objective measure of "better".
Melissia wrote:
This is why we make the distinction between luxuries and necessities to begin with.
And why they are extremely contentious. And why most people don't understand the distinction.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 04:37:05
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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dogma wrote:most people don't understand the distinction.
Most people don't understand the distinction between methyl alcohol and ethyl alcohol, or between 3-methylmorphine and 6-methoxymorphine but that doesn't indicate a lack of importance. I just indicates ignorance. For reference, methanol (mostly used as fuel) is much more poisonous than ethanol (drinking alcohol), while 6methylmorphine (Heterocodeine) is a damned bit stronger (and more open for abuse) than the more commonly used 3-methylmorphine (Codeine). The latter pair actually both have the same molecular formula.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/09/18 04:41:21
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 04:38:54
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:Most people don't understand the distinction between methyl alcohol and ethyl alcohol, or between 3-methylmorphine and 6-methoxymorphine but that doesn't indicate a lack of importance. I just indicates ignorance.
How nice of you to make my point for me.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 04:42:19
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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If your point was that ignorant people make objectively bad subjective judgments precisely because of their ignorance, then I suppose... I agree with you? But you seemed to be arguing otherwise.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/18 04:42:52
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 05:41:33
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:If your point was that ignorant people make objectively bad subjective judgments precisely because of their ignorance, then I suppose... I agree with you? But you seemed to be arguing otherwise.
Well, yes, but I'd also point out that you don't seem to have any realistic understanding of objectivity.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 05:48:45
Subject: Re:A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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If value isn't entirely subjective why do people pay thousands of dollars for shiny rocks?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/18 05:48:59
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 05:54:00
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Value unfortunately is hard to call objective in many cases because it relies on each individual's own personal wants, needs, desires, ect. and that in an of itself is always subjective, irregardless of how fair and impartial the person is. Now there are ways to which things have objective values that are intrinsic and can be measured. Take for instance a sugar molecule. Each sugar molecule is exactly the same and will yield the same kcal of energy every time it is burned for energy in the exact same way. Further, that molecule will have the same atomic weight and structure everytime we go back to measure it and see it. These are intrinsic values of an item that are objective- definable, measured aspects that don't involve an emotional or personal attachment of worth to that item. Automatically Appended Next Post: Amaya wrote:If value isn't entirely subjective why do people pay thousands of dollars for shiny rocks? The desire is exactly what makes the monetary value of a shiny rock subjective. Now all of gold's properties listed in the periodic table of the elements- those are objective values that don't change over time. If civilization ended today, I'd bet cave men would not want to buy a shiny rock they couldn't eat or bash over a person's head to eat that person merely because the shiny rock now because its subjective monetary value has changed.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/09/18 05:58:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 11:37:45
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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dogma wrote:Well, yes, but I'd also point out that you don't seem to have any realistic understanding of objectivity.
I know what objectivity is, and I never said that it was ENTIRELY objective-- the value of luxuries is always subjective for example. But there is an objective value to, say, riding a bicycle to work over walking; that is to say, the value gained in time saved over walking is something that can be objectively proven. There's a similar value for driving a car, but that has to be counterbalanced by the cost of fuel and the cost of the automobile itself, obviously.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/09/18 11:39:21
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 12:31:43
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:But there is an objective value to, say, riding a bicycle to work over walking; that is to say, the value gained in time saved over walking is something that can be objectively proven.
No. You've already assumed that driving was an undesired expenditure.
Also,  .
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 12:38:22
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Preacher of the Emperor
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If you define the only thing of value to be time. Someone might like walking, or hate their bike. They might want to actually expend the time in a walk if the area is nice.
Even something as simple as walk vs. ride requires you to make quite a few subjective judgements and you can't say your judgement is objective if you've based it off a lot of subjective calls.
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mattyrm wrote: I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.
I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 13:38:34
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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dogma wrote:Melissia wrote:But there is an objective value to, say, riding a bicycle to work over walking; that is to say, the value gained in time saved over walking is something that can be objectively proven.
No. You've already assumed that driving was an undesired expenditure.
Also,  .
I never made any assumptions about expenditures being desirable or not.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 14:38:26
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Melissia wrote:I never made any assumptions about expenditures being desirable or not.
Yes, you did.
Any gender studies person would know this. Automatically Appended Next Post: Tyyr wrote:...and you can't say your judgement is objective if you've based it off a lot of subjective calls.
You can, but it becomes complicated.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/09/18 14:39:45
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 14:57:30
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Meh, I'm not a gender studies person, I'm a scientist person
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 14:59:22
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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dogma wrote:
Tyyr wrote:...and you can't say your judgement is objective if you've based it off a lot of subjective calls.
You can, but it becomes complicated.
Step away from the dogma Tyyr! His logic is worse than his beit.
I'm assuming there is a philosophical school that can say a thinking being can be objective. I must inquire what you speak of despite it being complicated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 16:21:19
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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Thi whatever it is is getting mind bending...
Value is relative to the person/company/entity. It always will be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 17:00:20
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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Necessity and value do not go hand in hand. Needing your garbage picked up does not mean you will value it more than your Monday night football. Besides, the garbage disposal business is probably worth millions of dollars. Its not like its something no one pays for.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 23:18:50
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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WarOne wrote:
I'm assuming there is a philosophical school that can say a thinking being can be objective. I must inquire what you speak of despite it being complicated.
Well, objectivity is basically stance independence, so if you can demonstrate stance independence by encapsulating all possible stances relative to X, then you can be objective relative to X. Independence being, essentially, dependence on all relevant things.
So, in a world where there is only beef and pork, in which I like beef and pork equally, I could be thought of as objective due to my subjective regard for beef and pork.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/09/18 23:36:09
Subject: A Republican staffer of almost 30 years talks about what has gone wrong in his party
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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LordofHats wrote:The irony here may be that the monetary value of what scientists and scholars do is not as easily measured as say, Tom Cruise. I wonder how much money Thomas Edison would have by now if we accounted for every light bulb ever purchased.
Depends, is the RIAA or Hollywood doing the accounting? If so, Edison still owes them money for marketing and stuff, and they've never been profitable, amite?
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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