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ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So, where does it saw in the rules that a chainsword cannot be a power weapon? Why do I have to Have 10 sgts with chainswords and 10 with power weapons. When i can have ten sergeants with a chainsword, that can be upgrade for ten points to have a better motor and adimantium teeth so it ignores armor saves. All my chainswords will be either ccw or pw in a game. So how is that confusing? I clearly point out that either all the chainswords are power weapons, or i point out all the chainswords are ccws. If you find that confusing, well maybe this game is too complicated.

Because chainswords are not power weapons and are distinguished in the codex as different.

You don't have to buy 10 chainswords and 10 power weapons, you just have to decide which you use more and always use them like that. Or do half and half. You can't have everything.

Owning as model doesn't give you the right to field it as any and every weapon option available. If you want to play in events that require WYSIWYG, then deal with it. Saying chain swords are power weapons is not WYSIWYG and unfairly burdens your opponent which is unreasonable in competative play when a rule has been put forward.

If you get to choose which rules of an event you feel like following and which rules you do not feel like following, then maybe I should to the same. You think WYSIWYG is stupid and you choose not to follow it? I think moving 6" is stupid and I choose not to follow it.

If the event requires it, then follow it or don't participate.

Happyjew wrote:@WarlordRob: Go ahead and piggyback.

curtis wrote:
There was an article some time during the life of the last tyranid codex which gave rules for spike rifles and stangle webs I remember spike rifles being a barb from a flesh hook attached to the end of a gun, I think it was a devourer anyone care to help out?

Unfortunately all I can find on Stranglers and Skewers (which is what I believe you are referring to) is dead links.

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Tyranids_%28Second_Edition%29_-_Collectors_Guide

That link takes you to a site that shows the different termagants released for 2nd edition, note the stranglewebs and spike rifles.

Conversion beamers were another item mentioned. Until recently four versions of the beamer were released (follow the link and it's the 2nd picture from the left at the top of the page):-
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=conversion+beamer

and now Forgeworld have released two more variants, one on a character and another for the Contemptor Dreadnought.

I can't add anything to the WYSIWYG arguement that hasn't already been stated multiple times in this thread. Too expensive to buy x models to make a single WYSIWYG model? Then either choose an army where almost all the options are readily available (DE) or try a different game where wargear is not exchangable (Warmahordes).

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
I'm sorry but did i miss the part of a space marine model where it has s4 t4 modeled on it? If he wants to put a hotshot on a space marine model and call it a warrior acolyte, then its wysisyg. All the equipment is modeled. Lets go over it: Equipment: Power Armor, modeled. Hotshot lasgun, modeled. Or he could even just use a space marine model as a warrior acolyte with a boltgun. Perfectly legal. I fail to see whats the problem.

So I can take a warboss model and make it a boy because they both have a 6+ armorsave? As long as he has a shoota it is WYSIWYG

I can make a Tyranid Warrior a SM scount because they both have a 4+ armor save? As long as he has a shotgun it is WYSIWYG right?

Conversions are always 'rule of cool' and opponents consent. If you conversion is UNCLEAR then it is bad and may be disallowed from an event. Space marines in space marine power armor are seen universally as STR3 T4 models. There are loads of non T4 powered armored models out there which look totally different. While you can convert a space marine into an acolyte, it will take conversion and effort to be a clear 'counts as' and be validated by the rule of cool.

None of it justifies proxying chainswords as Power weapons.

rigeld2 wrote:

WarlordRob117 wrote:OMG are you cereal?!?!?!?! I told you Warrior Acolytes can wear power armor... power armor is space marine armor as there is no substitute by your logic... further more they can uprgrade to hotshot lasguns... so to make you happy I will cut off some stormtrooper arms and glue them to Space Marine models...

You see where the confusion comes from? I was following WYSIWYG by your standard, giving you hints as to what I was doing, explained with verbatim entries from the GK codex sitting 5 inches from my face, and you are still confused...

I motion to strike your Honor... IMPOSSIBEBLE!!!!

and I dont need your pity, I am a GK player that uses any technology when I want, however I want... if I wanna ride Optimus Prime into battle instead of a dreadknight, you dont have to like it... just know death will come for you all the same...

What confusion? Take a power armored model (which can be different from the default SM models - GK have lots of PA and they don't all look like SM) and give it a hot-shot lasgun.
What's impossible?

I dont mean thats impossible... according to nkelsch it is impossible... because power armor is not space marine armor(which is false by the way, look in the vanilla marine dex and you will see a picture that says power with a picture above it).
I say it is impossible to follow WYSIWYG all the time... which it is...

I think it'd be great to field a conversion like that... funny too...

WarlordRob117 wrote:I say it is impossible to follow WYSIWYG all the time... which it is...

For upgrades? No, it's not. Doing it only with what you get on the sprues when you purchase a box? Yes, you're right.
Which is why it takes more time and effort to get into a tourney than it does friendly play.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:So, where does it saw in the rules that a chainsword cannot be a power weapon? Why do I have to Have 10 sgts with chainswords and 10 with power weapons. When i can have ten sergeants with a chainsword, that can be upgrade for ten points to have a better motor and adimantium teeth so it ignores armor saves. All my chainswords will be either ccw or pw in a game. So how is that confusing? I clearly point out that either all the chainswords are power weapons, or i point out all the chainswords are ccws. If you find that confusing, well maybe this game is too complicated.

I'm sorry but did i miss the part of a space marine model where it has s4 t4 modeled on it? If he wants to put a hotshot on a space marine model and call it a warrior acolyte, then its wysisyg. All the equipment is modeled. Lets go over it: Equipment: Power Armor, modeled. Hotshot lasgun, modeled. Or he could even just use a space marine model as a warrior acolyte with a boltgun. Perfectly legal. I fail to see whats the problem.

you are as awesome as your avatar lol... bless you my child... I will field my extra space wolf models to fill out my 2500 point gk army tonight hahaha

Your missing the point with the warrior acyolte in power armor. A warrior acyolte in power armor is a human wearing power armor. Hey what looks just like a human wearing power armor? Why a standard space marine. Human in Power Armor = Human in Power Armor. I mention nothing about armor saves. I specifically mention Equipment. Power Armor, modeled. Show me a human in power armor that is a GW model. That isnt either a Space Marine or a Sister of Battle.

I mentioned nothing about armor saves. So if your warboss looks like a boy and is armed with whatever a boy is armed with, then he can be a boy. If your scout looks like a tyrinid warror, your playing the wrong game, or your blind.

As for the chainsword, my codex says refer to the warhammer 40000 rulebook for power weapons. Looked at it, it says power weapons are sheathed in a lethal haze. Oh cool. My chainswords are painted to have the teeth look like it has a lethal haze, a very shiny silver. The only models who have power weapons are the ones with chainswords. Its clearly distinct and wysiwyg. No TO i have talked to has a problem with it. I called the gw rules hotline. They told me that as long as the upgrade is clear and distinct were your opponent can tell the difference between a non upgraded model and a upgraded model its wysiwyg. In a friendly game, if you cant have the mental flexablity to wrap your mind around that all the models armed with chainswords are upgraded to have power weapons. I guess i'll play with someone that is more mentally evolved.

However if your putting, using your example, a tyrinid warrior down as a space marine. No. Not gonna fly in a tournement. But if your building your army in a friendly game. Its cool.

Last thing. If you want to go extreme RAW then only characters need to be WYSIWYG. So all my guardsmen with lasguns are really space marines. And it would be RAW. See pg 47.

Edit: @Warlord Rob. As long as the GK your using them as have the same weapon and armor as the Space Wolves model, then it is exactly WYSISYG.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:However if your putting, using your example, a tyrinid warrior down as a space marine. No. Not gonna fly in a tournement. But if your building your army in a friendly game. Its cool.

Last thing. If you want to go extreme RAW then only characters need to be WYSIWYG. So all my guardsmen with lasguns are really space marines. And it would be RAW. See pg 47.

It would be great if you actually read things. I don't think anyone has advocated WYSIWYG outside of a tournament specifying everything needs to be WYSIWYG. Friendly games it doesn't matter really.

rigeld2 wrote:

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:However if your putting, using your example, a tyrinid warrior down as a space marine. No. Not gonna fly in a tournement. But if your building your army in a friendly game. Its cool.

Last thing. If you want to go extreme RAW then only characters need to be WYSIWYG. So all my guardsmen with lasguns are really space marines. And it would be RAW. See pg 47.

It would be great if you actually read things. I don't think anyone has advocated WYSIWYG outside of a tournament specifying everything needs to be WYSIWYG. Friendly games it doesn't matter really.

The same could be applied to you my friend. Please answer my question in my last post referring to human in power armor.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Your missing the point with the warrior acyolte in power armor. A warrior acyolte in power armor is a human wearing power armor. Hey what looks just like a human wearing power armor? Why a standard space marine. Human in Power Armor = Human in Power Armor. I mention nothing about armor saves. I specifically mention Equipment. Power Armor, modeled. Show me a human in power armor that is a GW model. That isnt either a Space Marine or a Sister of Battle.

I mentioned nothing about armor saves. So if your warboss looks like a boy and is armed with whatever a boy is armed with, then he can be a boy. If your scout looks like a tyrinid warror, your playing the wrong game, or your blind.

As for the chainsword, my codex says refer to the warhammer 40000 rulebook for power weapons. Looked at it, it says power weapons are sheathed in a lethal haze. Oh cool. My chainswords are painted to have the teeth look like it has a lethal haze, a very shiny silver. The only models who have power weapons are the ones with chainswords. Its clearly distinct and wysiwyg. No TO i have talked to has a problem with it. I called the gw rules hotline. They told me that as long as the upgrade is clear and distinct were your opponent can tell the difference between a non upgraded model and a upgraded model its wysiwyg. In a friendly game, if you cant have the mental flexablity to wrap your mind around that all the models armed with chainswords are upgraded to have power weapons. I guess i'll play with someone that is more mentally evolved.

However if your putting, using your example, a tyrinid warrior down as a space marine. No. Not gonna fly in a tournement. But if your building your army in a friendly game. Its cool.

Last thing. If you want to go extreme RAW then only characters need to be WYSIWYG. So all my guardsmen with lasguns are really space marines. And it would be RAW. See pg 47.

Edit: @Warlord Rob. As long as the GK your using them as have the same weapon and armor as the Space Wolves model, then it is exactly WYSISYG.

BRAVO!!!

As a sanctioned inquisitor for the Imperium I cannot declare these statements as Heresy... exterminatus denied...

Space marines are not humans BTW... They are genetically engineered 8 foot monster humans, which means acolytes are significantly different. There are distinctions.

40k also doesn't allow conversions and that means you cannot make iguard count as space marines or modify the models in anyway. Basically the second you become unreasonable, the game breaks.

Chainswords are not power weapons. Just because some people want relaxed WYSIWYG or are cheap and lazy doesn't make it impossible. Extreme situations don't justify the pedantic and mundane upgrades you are just unwilling to convert. If a TO requires WYSIWYG then you better convert or model or go home.

Yeah, I disagree. A chainsword is a chainsword is a chainsword. I could take a duck and paint it orange, but that doesn't make it a traffic cone. It will still have a distinct ducky look about it.

I don't think WYSIWIG is that big of a deal in friendly games, as long as they ARE friendly. In competitive play, however, I believe that you need to have everything modeled as unambiguously as possible. If that means actually having a power sword on your sergeant then so be it.

I'm going to lock this thread about here to give people a chance to stop and regain some perspective.

As usual, WYSIWYG is being blown up all out of proportion. Regardless of what the rules may or may not be, at the end of the day WYSIWYG is a convention intended to make the game easier to follow. That's all it is.

How closely you follow it is up to you and your opponent.