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Rented Tritium wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:I don't want to equate involvement in a trial to having it left up to them. They do not decide guilt. They do not decide sentencing. Period.

But they often influence it.

So does the defendant. But you wouldn't say that we leave justice up to defendants.

To an extent, which is all Frazzled said in the first place, the defendant does effect the proceedings.

If the victim of the family testifies about the harm caused, and this effects the sentencing or determination of guilt, then the family of the victim, by definition, has some bearing on the outcome of the trial. I'll read any rebuttals to this as "I'm being stubborn and deliberately wasting your time."

Wait wait you keep saying justice. There's the law and the court system, then there's justice. These are not the same.

Monster Rain wrote:I'll read any rebuttals to this as "I'm being stubborn and deliberately wasting your time."

Man, and I've seen you complain in other threads that people weren't arguing in good faith. Think about what you're saying here.

I guess I would like to see him get the needle. Not because he threatened a child. Mainly because he just seems like yet another, in a long line of annoying ASBO retards, who I don't want to have to watch on E4 next year talking about how "-._,~BaRe mANz B R8in mA sKiLz init Bruv~._,-". Other such illiterate tools include NDubZ who should also get the needle for crimes against grammar and music.

With regards to the fairness of the sentence... I think it was probably a good call. Throwing people in jail and destroying their lives and future oppertunities, isn't very productive. It usually just leads to them being more problematic and anti social in the future. He has been given a second chance to make something of his life. Who knows maybe after a few years of polluting the airwaves and buying Nike trainers, he might actually grow up and become a decent human being. If not he'll go to jail. Either outcome is acceptable to me.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I'll read any rebuttals to this as "I'm being stubborn and deliberately wasting your time."

Man, and I've seen you complain in other threads that people weren't arguing in good faith. Think about what you're saying here.

I have.

You aren't willing to acknowledge that victims have input in legal proceedings.

Monster Rain wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:I'll read any rebuttals to this as "I'm being stubborn and deliberately wasting your time."

Man, and I've seen you complain in other threads that people weren't arguing in good faith. Think about what you're saying here.

I have.

You aren't willing to acknowledge that victims have input in legal proceedings.

I'm not willing to say that they decide guilt or sentencing. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that they are part of the process. You've been strawmanning me about this for like a page now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The victims being part of the process has nothing to do with the fact that a key component of the judicial system is that we don't let the family of a victim actually decide things.

I made this post in response to the usual "if it was your family, you'd want to murder the accused as well" nonsense that comes up in these revenge porn conversations.

The entire point of my post is that the families of the victims are too emotional to make judgement on the matter. Testifying is not making judgement.

Rented Tritium wrote:I'm not willing to say that they decide guilt or sentencing. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that they are part of the process. You've been strawmanning me about this for like a page now..

Speaking of strawmen.

Rented Tritium wrote:Is your position that we do in fact leave justice "up to the family of the victims"? because you need to redefine some words for that to be true.

Rented Tritium wrote:The victims being part of the process has nothing to do with the fact that a key component of the judicial system is that we don't let the family of a victim actually decide things.

I made this post in response to the usual "if it was your family, you'd want to murder the accused as well" nonsense that comes up in these revenge porn conversations.

"I am above your barbaric empathy."

Rented Tritium wrote:Testifying is not making judgement.

Who said that it was?

Rented Tritium wrote:strawmanning

This is his music video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANf6libd07o

Is that really what passes for talent now? Just seems like any other thug on an ego trip. I'm not much of a musician and have only ever tried MCing as a joke. But I reckon I could pull a better tune, rap, and video, out of my ass, in about an afternoon. Not because I'm that good, just the bar is set pretty low here.

Monster Rain wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:Testifying is not making judgement.

Who said that it was?

I said that we did not leave things up to the victim's family. You said that we totally do because the victim's testify. I said that testifying doesn't count as "leaving things up to" and you said it did.

I rephrased "leave things up to" to "make judgement" to be clearer because something was obviously not being communicated about my position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Monster Rain wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:The victims being part of the process has nothing to do with the fact that a key component of the judicial system is that we don't let the family of a victim actually decide things.

I made this post in response to the usual "if it was your family, you'd want to murder the accused as well" nonsense that comes up in these revenge porn conversations.

"I am above your barbaric empathy."

Empathy?

Saying that punishment should be harsher because the victim's family said so is empathy now? No, that's revenge. Revenge is not empathy and it's not justice.

Rented Tritium wrote:Saying that punishment should be harsher because the victim's family said so is empathy now? No, that's revenge. Revenge is not empathy and it's not justice.

No, empathy is the capability to feel what others are feeling. I know there will be pedantic posts that cause me to regret not being bothered to look up the official definition.

Rented Tritium wrote:strawmanning

Oh how I do love living on the fringe of Europa, it saves us from such fools.

Monster Rain wrote:

Albatross wrote:Yes, this is the stupidest thread I've seen on Dakka for quite some time. I once pointed my finger at another persons face and threatened to kill them whilst in a fit of rage. Hopefully, the judge will be lenient and only give me 20 years.

Surely you see the difference between that and the case being discussed?

Well, yes. He put his finger on a child's head, therefore he deserves the electric chair.

He violated his ASBO, he's not doing the punishment for it, therefore It's unfair and unjust. Are we ready different articles?

Albatross wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Albatross wrote:Yes, this is the stupidest thread I've seen on Dakka for quite some time. I once pointed my finger at another persons face and threatened to kill them whilst in a fit of rage. Hopefully, the judge will be lenient and only give me 20 years.

Surely you see the difference between that and the case being discussed?

Well, yes. He put his finger on a child's head, therefore he deserves the electric chair.

I meant aside from the hyperbole.

InquisitorVaron wrote:He violated his ASBO, he's not doing the punishment for it, therefore It's unfair and unjust. Are we ready different articles?

Yes, we're ready.

@Monster - It's the hyperbole I have a problem with.