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Things that shouldn't exist:
Ultramarines (joke)
imotech the storm lords night fight rule and thunder

Well, cover saves should work how they worked in rt days. If you don't know it was harder to hit the unit, instead of 4's you might need 5's or 6's. all depends on cover.

What irks me is Combat Squads. You split up your SM Tactical squad and you have 2 scoring units which you have to kill both of before you can get a kill point.
Kind of like cutting a cake in half and eating both halves just to make sure that it's gone.

When me and my friend play, we always roll to see who goes first, then the other person rolls for seizing initative. Then we deploy and so on, it balances the game out alot easier and doesn't mess lists up. Perhaps you guys should try it?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:What irks me is Combat Squads. You split up your SM Tactical squad and you have 2 scoring units which you have to kill both of before you can get a kill point.
Kind of like cutting a cake in half and eating both halves just to make sure that it's gone.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is wrong. Each combat squad is a separate unit, and hence each half is worth a kill-point. Not that people actually combat squad in KP missions.

The only thing that irks me, which hasn’t been mentioned yet, are 3++ saves.

During the previous edition I played in, which was third, 4++ were the best saves possible and only available to characters, with rank and file only having access to 5++ saves at best. It was a far better system IMO.

Mechanic wise, 3++ saves are sloppy rules design IMO as it essentially allows the unit a 66% chance to shrug of anything that comes their way. The commonality of 3++ saves in 5th and the fact that some units can even get 2++ saves in even more mind boggling IMO.

Personally if I re-could rewrite 40k, I’d cap Inv saves at 4++ with only certain special characters like Ghazz in special circumstances getting access to 3++ saves.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:3. Jaws of the World Wolf. I really just think this shouldn't exist. It doesn't really hurt other top-end books at all, just distributes a real kick to the teeth for some of the more subpar armies out there. Just in general, it's not like the SW book is weak to MC-heavy lists (thanks to missiles), but Jaws just turns battles from "difficult matchup" to unwinnable situation.

While I'm meant to hate this power by default as a Tyranid player, I really only hate its execution. I really don't mind pwoerful abilities like this, but what bugs me about the power is it bypasses all other tests for killing a model.

Usually, for a psychic power, it is Psychic Test > To Hit > To Wound > Armour/Invulnerable Save, then check to see if instant death is applicable, and if so, if the target has Eternal Warrior. Just like any other shooting attack, but requiring a psychic test. I can even forgive psychic powers that don't require a to hit or to wound roll (mostly to hit through, as template weapons do this anyway). Even psychic powers that 'wound' based on another stat - it's just another type of wounding.

Jaws of the World Wolf crosses the line multiple times. All it requires is a psychic test and an initiative 'to wound' test. There's no attempting to hit, you automatically hit everything under the line. It allows sniping, bypassing wound allocation - you can specifically angle the line to take out, say, sergeants. It bypasses all kinds of saves, even invulnerable saves. And on top of that, they felt the need to word it so it doesn't cause Instant Death, but simply removes the model from play. Eternal Warrior is bypassed.

It's not really broken in that it's overpowered, it's broken in that it bypasses just about every hoop you need to jump through to kill a model. One test, removed from play entirely if failed. It's a terribly designed power from a game design point of view.

Wraiths had 3++ saves in 3rd, but were about the only ones that did (possibly a very few others).

Dark Eldar have always had the 2++ until failed Shadow Field, AFAIK.

Blame Ward for turning an item that gives a 4+ invulnerable save in CC against ONE opponent into a perpetual 3++ save on a 2+ unit..

2+/3++ anoys the hell out of me too.

Daemons with 4++ or 3++ saves are less annoying, as they don't generally have armour saves as well (3+,4++ for Khorne stuff, is all)

The "Beat this unit!" thread.

I know it is not a unit or mechanic of the game, but it really is useless.

As for 'rules/mechanics' they need to take out the ability to auto hit skimmers in CC, a vehicle floating 10-20 meters above the battlefield should never be auto hit in an assault.

DeathReaper wrote:The "Beat this unit!" thread.

I know it is not a unit or mechanic of the game, but it really is useless.

As for 'rules/mechanics' they need to take out the ability to auto hit skimmers in CC, a vehicle floating 10-20 meters above the battlefield should never be auto hit in an assault.

the idea is that it lands at the end of the phase and basically hovers very lowly above ground.
One thing that annoys me is that people NEVER read the rulebook. They take it as rules as written, and then miss out the explanation for why things do that.

The Son Of Russ wrote:the idea is that it lands at the end of the phase and basically hovers very lowly above ground.

Right, which is a big change from previous editions, where Skimmers were hit only on a 6 in CC no matter how far they moved.

Skimmers have no need to hover 'very lowly above ground' it makes it strange in the flow of things.

Another rule that needs to go, or be changed, is fast skimmers that move 13 inches get a cover save, and fast skimmers that move 12 inches get nothing.

The only thing that kinda irritates me to no end in this edition is Outflanking and the removal of the Auspex and Auspex-ish type abilities.

I like the way cover works in most situations. Sitting in a ruin or forest should easily warrant 4+ cover imo, but it's too easy to get it in stupid situations where it's not realistic. Conga lines around a corner come to mind. Would make more sense to cap the death toll at the number of models visible in the unit, or something.

Things that just shouldn't exist:
-The black library.
-Fluff in general? maybe? All it does is cause ridiculous arguments and more marine books.
-The extra marine books. Marines are my favourite TEAM but they don't need more than one codex, plus it's obviously too much work.
-Chaos gods. They spend too much time and effort on this stuff and it was always hyper-lame.
-Special model sniping rules. It would be alright if it came with sniper weapons, but it's awful as it is.
-2++ saves
-Shadow fields
-Comp scores
-Storm ravens
-Terminator-size LC hands on PA marines. Seriously, what is the deal with this? Whose idea was it?

Warboss Gutrip wrote:I wish fanboism didn't exist.

I don't mind people getting excited over new releases, but it annoys the crap outta me when Mr. Generic bandwagoner is running around the FLGS mouthing off to anyone who will listen about how his SPATHE MAHREENS are STHO AMATHING and will beat ANYTHING thanks to his new codex.

The irony inherent in these players is that they are generally the same guys that run armies consisting of 500+ points lumped into HQ or other 'uber' units, but fail miserably on the tabletop.

The opposite side of the fence here is annoying, too. The people who play one army and decide to bitch and moan about the new flavor of the month codex that just came out. I've got one friend who just moans constantly about how Grey Knights are the worst thing to happen to the game, and they're so incredibly overpowered - and I've played a few games where I just outright slaughtered a GK player's army without taking too many major casualties. Heck, I've even seen a daemon player, an army who the GKs were meant to counter, wipe the floor with the Knights.

RAVEN 97 wrote:Things that shouldn't exist:
Ultramarines (joke)
imotech the storm lords night fight rule and thunder

This^ I do not have so much a problem with the night fight rule, though I do find it strange, as much as the lightning. Its a gimic that relies completely on luck and should be gotten rid of completely. Most of the time it should fail, rolling a 6 should be pretty difficult. But it is on those rare occasions where you see a mech or ig army lose all their vehicles first turn due to some lucky gimic, b/c it has the capability to just wreck for no good reason and based off of no strategy is the reason it bothers me so much. I do not like the night fight ability either, but it is slightly less bothersome