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dogma wrote:Anyway, I'm getting at what I assumed was you making a comment about poor major choice.

While I'm never one to shy away from that argument (see above), I was actually making the point that if you're working minimum wage and have a college degree you're simply not looking hard enough. Unemployment among college-educated people is around 5%. While I'm sure many of them are underemployed in the current economic climate, I doubt that many are working minimum wage jobs.

Soup kitchens and food banks perhaps? Live in a shelter or under a bridge maybe? But as long as they can have a box to keep their warhammer models in, then they'll be just fine.

If you can buy warhammer you are surviving nicely.

biccat wrote:While I'm sure many of them are underemployed in the current economic climate, I doubt that many are working minimum wage jobs.

I don't know, and have no statistics to cite (I'm also too lazy to look) but it would be an interesting topic of research (ie. I may look later).

corpsesarefun wrote:If you can buy warhammer you are surviving nicely.

Not always. I knew a guy who would sneak his roommates food to keep from having to buy anything past ramen so he could buy Warhammer. There was another that built his entire collection of D&D books stealing them from stores and libraries. I condone neither and find both sad, but in the end people often find strange ways to get things they shouldn't.

If you can buy warhammer and have even an ounce of common sense then you are surviving nicely.

Minimum wage earners dont 'survive', they get into debt instead.

The dumb ones get into debt.

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

Go solar, live out of town, live for free, free internet and power:

http://youtu.be/fJsDOD0dTQI

Slarg232 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

I know what its like to be on benefits and on very low wages, its easier on benefits. Low wages supposedly give you more money, indeed government calculations guarantee that, but expenditure is not the same, once you have accounted for travel and eating at lunchtime away from home you have already blown any saving you have from having a job. wage earners need more money to live, especially if any form of commuting is involved. I remained solvent on low wages by only taking jobs I could get to by bike and not eating at lunchtime and having no berr money. A lot of people find that hard month in month out, year in year out, and credit is too easy to get.

Were it not for my loathing of credit culture I would be there too, and even then I got into debt anyway, heavy rent arrears due to cashflow problems. I am also lucky in that tobacco and alcohol has no hold on me, and I do not run a car.

I see the point raised a lot, but debt does not solely come from credit cards. Medical bills (sometimes unavoidable), surprise overdraft crap (not talking about overspending, talking about random fees you were unaware of and the like) that begins a snowball and other mandatory miscellaneous expenses that take priority over bills that can be paid slightly late (your work clothes got burned in a fire and what are you going to where? stuff like that ). It's really not so simple.

VanHammer wrote:Go solar, live out of town, live for free, free internet and power:

http://youtu.be/fJsDOD0dTQI

After watching that I don't mind so much being a "slave to the system" and having a mortgage.

VanHammer wrote:Go solar, live out of town, live for free, free internet and power:

http://youtu.be/fJsDOD0dTQI

.

Costco is the place to shop for cheap food. You can get a huge ass bag of chicken cheap. The frozen stir fry mix is the best, I never had the energy to cook so many veggies before but everything is just ready to be cooked.

Orlanth wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

I know what its like to be on benefits and on very low wages, its easier on benefits. Low wages supposedly give you more money, indeed government calculations guarantee that, but expenditure is not the same, once you have accounted for travel and eating at lunchtime away from home you have already blown any saving you have from having a job. wage earners need more money to live, especially if any form of commuting is involved. I remained solvent on low wages by only taking jobs I could get to by bike and not eating at lunchtime and having no berr money. A lot of people find that hard month in month out, year in year out, and credit is too easy to get.

Were it not for my loathing of credit culture I would be there too, and even then I got into debt anyway, heavy rent arrears due to cashflow problems. I am also lucky in that tobacco and alcohol has no hold on me, and I do not run a car.

£55 a week on unemployment benefit, £240 a week for a minimum wage job.
It's a myth that it "pays to be unemployed".

It's not easy. I work part time for a regular pay check. I get tips, and there are days where you can make a lot of money on tips more than minimum wage. A former class mate of mine was a waitress at a Olive Garden for a few years before decided to go to college. She made more being a waitress than some of my friends who are electrical engineers.

I also do odd jobs for people that get paid a bit of money for but it is not a reliable income, meaning I could go weeks without doing an odd job for someone.


Replace sinks, fix toilets, lay tile, put in a water heater, fix a dish washer, etc. Did a lot of it growing up.


It's probably easier for me since I don't drive. No gas. No maintenance. No auto insurance.


What's really difficult is being a single mother working for minimum wage. Quite a few of them come into the restaurant I work at in the morning tell me their struggles. A mother should have to decide between medicine and food.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:
£55 a week on unemployment benefit, £240 a week for a minimum wage job.
It's a myth that it "pays to be unemployed".

You guys got that myth going on over there too?

Wow.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bleak_Fantasy wrote:Costco is the place to shop for cheap food. You can get a huge ass bag of chicken cheap. The frozen stir fry mix is the best, I never had the energy to cook so many veggies before but everything is just ready to be cooked.

Ahhhhhh Costco. Miss the place. The store where you can buy chocolate muffins the size of your head.

Unfortunately upstate New York does not have a costco, at least where I live.

The real question is how do people making close to minimum wage survive working less than 30 hours a week...

I work 30-36 hours a week right now, IDGAF, just doing it until I go back to college and get a different part time job. There's people I work with that are 28+ with multiple children working less than 30 hours a week, making at most $8.50/hour. That ain't spit. Not much sympathy for most of them either since they're sloppy, lazy, slow, and turn down extra hours (which in turn would lead to a raise and promotion....). state aid man smh

Amaya wrote:The real question is how do people making close to minimum wage survive working less than 30 hours a week...

I work 30-36 hours a week right now, IDGAF, just doing it until I go back to college and get a different part time job. There's people I work with that are 28+ with multiple children working less than 30 hours a week, making at most $8.50/hour. That ain't spit. Not much sympathy for most of them either since they're sloppy, lazy, slow, and turn down extra hours (which in turn would lead to a raise and promotion....). state aid man smh

Know what you mean man.

Amaya wrote:
...and turn down extra hours (which in turn would lead to a raise and promotion....).

Possibly because they have other jobs, or, you know, kids.

Joey wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

I know what its like to be on benefits and on very low wages, its easier on benefits. Low wages supposedly give you more money, indeed government calculations guarantee that, but expenditure is not the same, once you have accounted for travel and eating at lunchtime away from home you have already blown any saving you have from having a job. wage earners need more money to live, especially if any form of commuting is involved. I remained solvent on low wages by only taking jobs I could get to by bike and not eating at lunchtime and having no berr money. A lot of people find that hard month in month out, year in year out, and credit is too easy to get.

Were it not for my loathing of credit culture I would be there too, and even then I got into debt anyway, heavy rent arrears due to cashflow problems. I am also lucky in that tobacco and alcohol has no hold on me, and I do not run a car.

£55 a week on unemployment benefit, £240 a week for a minimum wage job.
It's a myth that it "pays to be unemployed".

£600 a month rent - paid for.
£125 council tax - paid for.

Things are starting to even out....

mattyrm wrote:

Joey wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

I know what its like to be on benefits and on very low wages, its easier on benefits. Low wages supposedly give you more money, indeed government calculations guarantee that, but expenditure is not the same, once you have accounted for travel and eating at lunchtime away from home you have already blown any saving you have from having a job. wage earners need more money to live, especially if any form of commuting is involved. I remained solvent on low wages by only taking jobs I could get to by bike and not eating at lunchtime and having no berr money. A lot of people find that hard month in month out, year in year out, and credit is too easy to get.

Were it not for my loathing of credit culture I would be there too, and even then I got into debt anyway, heavy rent arrears due to cashflow problems. I am also lucky in that tobacco and alcohol has no hold on me, and I do not run a car.

£55 a week on unemployment benefit, £240 a week for a minimum wage job.
It's a myth that it "pays to be unemployed".

£600 a month rent - paid for.
£125 council tax - paid for.

Things are starting to even out....

Pretty sure the housing benefit is regardless of employment, hence the "scandal" over people in London earning 30k a year and receiving housing benefit.

Necroshea wrote:As a college graduate, getting by on minimum wage is not easy.

It's not meant to be easy. Minimum wage is supposed to be the minimum you can get by on. It sucks that you're stuck with that job, but life is hard sometimes. Best of luck finding something better!

Necroshea wrote:Pay wise we're looking at maybe 1200 a month, and that's if I can pull 40 hours every week. Well, after a breakdown expenditures...

Ouch! Living in a state with the lowest minimum wage is extra rough.

Necroshea wrote:Food - Average 7.50/day. 7.50*30 = 225

You could cut way down on food costs. When I was in college, I was living off of ~$3 per day for food. It's possible to go even below that. And, there are soup kitchens and things like that to provide extra help if need be.

Necroshea wrote:Rent - 400 (that's about average for cheap places I've seen in dallas)

That's fairly high. I did a quick scan on Dallas craigslist and found plenty of places for $300 or less.

Necroshea wrote:Water - 30
Electricity - 70

A roommate will help with that. But, $100 per month per person isn't too bad.

Necroshea wrote:Gas - 50*4 = 200 (filling up once a week)

Public transit can be a big saver here. A monthly pass is $100.

Necroshea wrote:Total - 925
Remaining Cash - 275

So, after all that you start adding in additional things like car payments, cell phone bills, student loans, etc. etc.

Car payments are rough, but they shouldn't be too bad. If you paid more than a few thousand for the car, you're driving a luxury you really didn't need. (And, if you go with public transit, you can forgo the car all together.) Cell phone bills can be reduced greatly if you don't use a smartphone and pay by the minute (with keeping phone calls to a minimum). Student loans should be able to be differed or even forgiven if your income is low.

Necroshea wrote:I don't think it's too unrealistic to say that you'd have less than a hundred dollars a month to pay for unneeded things, or save for emergencies.

If you can save money while working on minimum wage, you're doing great. Most people on minimum wage are living paycheck to paycheck, or are surviving on credit and getting deeper and deeper into debt.

Joey wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:The dumb ones with credit cards get into debt.

Fixed.

I'm trying to stockpile money for College, to cut down my debt, on minimum wage. It's nice living with my parents.

I know what its like to be on benefits and on very low wages, its easier on benefits. Low wages supposedly give you more money, indeed government calculations guarantee that, but expenditure is not the same, once you have accounted for travel and eating at lunchtime away from home you have already blown any saving you have from having a job. wage earners need more money to live, especially if any form of commuting is involved. I remained solvent on low wages by only taking jobs I could get to by bike and not eating at lunchtime and having no berr money. A lot of people find that hard month in month out, year in year out, and credit is too easy to get.

Were it not for my loathing of credit culture I would be there too, and even then I got into debt anyway, heavy rent arrears due to cashflow problems. I am also lucky in that tobacco and alcohol has no hold on me, and I do not run a car.

£55 a week on unemployment benefit, £240 a week for a minimum wage job.
It's a myth that it "pays to be unemployed".

Tax already 'paid' JSA is net taxable income, minimum wage with a full annual wage yields £12,400, that is enough to lump you with £1K of tax, and cuts your pay to £208/week.
Then you have to pay rent, housing benefit will not cover all of this, the rates will vary but with £100 a week for rent you can expect to have a top up of about £30,could be more or less, this cuts you down to £138 as a guess. Next comes council tax, this cannot be offset, you can complain about high rent and get a reduction, lawful tax cannot. The council cannot decide to let you off, under any circumstances outside of a council tax reduction claim. This could end up any amount frankly and personal contributions will only go so far. Its hard to put a figure to this but £20 a week is not unreasonable.
We are now down to £118.

A lot better than £55 yes?

However now count in commuting costs, that isnt cheap. If the minimum wage guy can walk your golden, but I am going to assume a bud is taken and the bus journeyt costs £3 each way. Thats £30 a week.

This guy is also working a full week, probably not on the best hours either, so he needs food. Lunch out might cost £3, more if you eat healthier. Thats £15 minimum. An unemployed person can buy incredients and cook at home for a fraction of the price., I will assume both have similar out of hours food expenses. This cost is pure extra to have something to eat while working, probably doing something manual.

Your minimum wage worker is down to £73 a week.

I stop here, but fate doesn't. If the job is new you are on emergency tax, which is a higher rate, if the pay is late it will likely be harder to fix than late JSA and income support payments. JSA offices pay out with a counter cheque quickly enough, employers might not like to admit error swiftly. They might ask for evidence in writing etc and be very slow. JSA related housing benefit etc are also easy to calculate, when working the council asks for proof, reviews etc. So your persons housing benefit may well be delayed.
This cuts net monies from £73 to £43. Is this likely? Hell yes. I know plenty of people who have had a lot of problems with councils miscalculating and being tardy with payments.

The governments calculations guarantee you are better off working, if the calculations do not add up in your favour you get as work credit top up to ensure you have more than benefits would get you. However working incurs higher costs, and we only touched on the minimums here, more tellingly the bureaucracy is harder on the workers than the non workers as the calculations are individually tailored rather than taken from a single benefit entitlement base.

The kicker is that if you have plenty of kids and get a large council house it is real easy to have more on benefits than you can likely earn. Though extreme cases go beyond the scope of this thread.
100% housing benefit and council tax benefit, in council/housing association accomodation.
No

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote: Even so, $800/mo for a one-bedroom apartment is high outside of New York.

I paid $600 to live with 5 roommates (against city code) in a house in St. Paul, Mn.

Where my parents live, in an, admittedly wealthy, Chicago suburb a 1 bedroom apartment would run upwards of $700 a month.

My one bedroom, college town apartment cost me $1000 a month. It had many amenities, but the lowest price I saw on market was $600.

Thats so stupid...I just bought a brand new 1500 sq ft home and it's only $617 a month (not including taxes and insurance)!

That is another thing that really hurts people who can not save anything at all. They are throwing away money on something they will never see a return on.

In my $1300 River North apartment I saw a great return on awesome views, and drinking scotch on the balcony.

Orlanth wrote:

Tax already 'paid' JSA is net taxable income, minimum wage with a full annual wage yields £12,400, that is enough to lump you with £1K of tax, and cuts your pay to £208/week.
Then you have to pay rent, housing benefit will not cover all of this, the rates will vary but with £100 a week for rent you can expect to have a top up of about £30,could be more or less, this cuts you down to £138 as a guess. Next comes council tax, this cannot be offset, you can complain about high rent and get a reduction, lawful tax cannot. The council cannot decide to let you off, under any circumstances outside of a council tax reduction claim. This could end up any amount frankly and personal contributions will only go so far. Its hard to put a figure to this but £20 a week is not unreasonable.
We are now down to £118.

A lot better than £55 yes?

However now count in commuting costs, that isnt cheap. If the minimum wage guy can walk your golden, but I am going to assume a bud is taken and the bus journeyt costs £3 each way. Thats £30 a week.

This guy is also working a full week, probably not on the best hours either, so he needs food. Lunch out might cost £3, more if you eat healthier. Thats £15 minimum. An unemployed person can buy incredients and cook at home for a fraction of the price., I will assume both have similar out of hours food expenses. This cost is pure extra to have something to eat while working, probably doing something manual.

Your minimum wage worker is down to £73 a week.

I stop here, but fate doesn't. If the job is new you are on emergency tax, which is a higher rate, if the pay is late it will likely be harder to fix than late JSA and income support payments. JSA offices pay out with a counter cheque quickly enough, employers might not like to admit error swiftly. They might ask for evidence in writing etc and be very slow. JSA related housing benefit etc are also easy to calculate, when working the council asks for proof, reviews etc. So your persons housing benefit may well be delayed.
This cuts net monies from £73 to £43. Is this likely? Hell yes. I know plenty of people who have had a lot of problems with councils miscalculating and being tardy with payments.

The governments calculations guarantee you are better off working, if the calculations do not add up in your favour you get as work credit top up to ensure you have more than benefits would get you. However working incurs higher costs, and we only touched on the minimums here, more tellingly the bureaucracy is harder on the workers than the non workers as the calculations are individually tailored rather than taken from a single benefit entitlement base.

The kicker is that if you have plenty of kids and get a large council house it is real easy to have more on benefits than you can likely earn. Though extreme cases go beyond the scope of this thread.
100% housing benefit and council tax benefit, in council/housing association accomodation.
No

£100 a week for rent? Where the hell do you live?
You can get a city centre place for about £40 including bills.
Everything else you listed would have to be paid for by someone on JSA as well so I really don't know what your point is.
There's no mystic maths to it. 40 hours a week at minimum wage is far in excess of job seeker's allowance.

what city do you live in?
Best I found locally when I was looking for somewhere to live was £350/month, unfurnished not including bills, in an area you wouldn't want to live in.

marv335 wrote:what city do you live in?
Best I found locally when I was looking for somewhere to live was £350/month, unfurnished not including bills, in an area you wouldn't want to live in.

http://www.gumtree.com/p/flats-houses/single-room-in-modern-refurbished-house-sharing-with-professionals-inc-bills/94206323
£180pm. There's much cheaper than that, though.
Even cheaper when i lived in Leicester.
You did know that not everywhere in the Uk is rich, right?

dogma wrote:

Amaya wrote:
...and turn down extra hours (which in turn would lead to a raise and promotion....).

Possibly because they have other jobs, or, you know, kids.

Didn't I just state that it's the lazy people turning down extra hours? No, they don't have another job. People with another job aren't even asked to stay later or come in on days they're scheduled off.