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Aldarionn wrote:

purplefood wrote:Incidentally was i the only one who tried to get as many people killed as i could in my playthroughs?

My old roommate did a speed run on ME2 once. He finished in under 5 hours and lost just about everyone, including Shepard. It was....amusing.

Same happened to me...

The best thing about mass effect is all the nerdrage it causes.

True story.

Melissia wrote:The best thing about mass effect is all the nerdrage it causes.

True story.

Yeeeeeesssss. The rage sustains me

Some people get way into Bioware games Then again I'm the guy whose pretty much watched the whole game on youtube XD

Hmm, have to go with Liara in the first one, but I strayed with Miranda in number two because I actually assumed that Liara was out by the way she acted when you first meet her again, and then, I went back to her in number three. Actually, the scene where you meet Miranda again and I told her it was off was pretty hard to do...I haven't played since then, so not sure if that's it for Miranda, but it was a hard call.

Karon wrote:

Amaya wrote:Dragon Age is certainly worse than World of Warcraft, in addition to being worse than pretty much every decent RPG made in the past 20 years. I could probably write a fething research paper on how bad Dragon Age is. God, I hate that game.

If you're simply comparing which game is better in comparison to its respective peers within its genre than you could say that World of Warcraft is better than Mass Effect and Skyrim, from a stand alone perspective, it's really impossible to say. It's almost as silly as comparing Mario Kart and Madden.

Dragon Age Origins was a great game.

Dragon Age 2 was average overall, and the dislike for it is largely exaggerated.

My point was that you think that comparing an MMO where story is largely irrelevant to an RPG where story is everything. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Since that makes no sense whatsoever, your mindset and general hostile attitude toward "rpg-nerds" is rather pathetic when you consider what website you are on.

Your "superior" attitude is amusing, but rather moronic for my tastes, so I'll do myself a favor and put you on ignore.

I loled at the bolded part. So, there's nothing wrong with the stereotypical skinny fat pasty nerd that shuns sunlight and is unable to function in that vast majority of social environments?
If you take offense at that you either are one, in that case, my condolences, or assume that I am assuming you are one simply because you play 40k and/or video games.

Most of the people I know that play 40k and other wargames are normal college students or mature and responsible adults with families and careers. Sure, they tend to run on the unathletic side, but I've seen several exceptions to that. They might be 'nerds', but they aren't a stereotypical basement troll. If anything those individuals make up less than 1/4 of the gaming population, probably even less than since video gamers, especially those who play RPGs, are no longer ostracized as they once were. There are of course a token remnant, but there's always a percentage of the populace that lurks at the various corners of social norms.

You'll note that I've never actually directly compared WoW to any normal RPG, simply because you can't, for various reasons, but saying that all MMOs lack story is incredibly ignorant, especially considering that the only thing going for SWToR are the various class stories.

But I have yet to ever see a constructive post from you and for whatever reason you respond violently to anyone who disagrees with you, often in a nonsensical manner. It would probably be wise to stop raging over my posts.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Totalwar, stop trying to justify your fanservice by comparing it to other media. Its a flawed argument, especially because a significant portion of romance in other media is equally pointless, especially in James Bond films, where is blatant fanservice...why else would they have bimbos named Pussy Galore, etc?

The only reason to explore romance options in video games is if you're an OCD completionist WHO HAS TO DO everything or if you find it titillating. The fact people even discuss the various character traits and emotional merits of possible romance options is somewhat disturbing...more so when they compare them to people in RL...

Its a flawed argument to say they're the same; because they're the same...

They are the same form of media; you should evaluate them accordingly. Theres no difference to me liking Tali and liking Talith (coincidental similarity in names) out of the Wars of Light and Shadow book series. Even a description of a female character in a book could be considered 'titilating' if you employ that measure.

My argument is flawed? I'm confused in the Mass Effect romances you choose to a) pursue them, b) not pursue them, c) pursue them to a sexual end. Now the premise behind the typical western RPG, is that you are the character, correct? You are in this little virtual world, guiding and exploring the story, within the limitations placed by the creators. What is the point of pursuing a romance, particularly one that leads to a cheesy sex scene? Are you arguing that a romantic relationship is somehow more significant than a platonic one? Okay, I can agree with that point, but why is the sexual aspect necessary? Does it add anything to the story, or is it just a random scene tossed in as fanservice? Just like the typical SSC in film, it's nothing but fanservice and the only reason I see to pursue it is sexual gratification.

Aldarionn wrote:Amaya, you clearly have a difference of opinion on forming any kind of connection with characters in any form of animated media, which tells me that you don't respect voice acting and art development nearly as much as you respect stage/live acting. This kind of thinking is one of the main reasons that people who play video games are considered nerds and freaks when much of the same subject matter that appears in games also appears in films and other forms of media.

So, since your opinion differs so much, and you have clearly stated it, re-stating it isn't bringing anything new or on-topic to this thread so perhaps consider making your own thread if you want to discuss your reasons for disliking romantic relationships in video games, and I will be happy to argue this all day in that thread. That way those of us who do enjoy that content can discuss it in this thread in peace.

Most voice acting is mediocre, but there are many exceptions. Grey DesLisle and Jennifer Hale are excellent to the point that I'll actually look into media that they're in simply because it will probably be pretty good. Mordin, Grunt, the CSM (ME fans call him the Illusive Man, but I know the truth) are also done well. I could go and do a list of every character I think has gotten good voice acting, but that would be pointless. For the most part yes, I would say animated media is inferior. There is a considerable amount of excellent art out there, but for some reason the quality drops like a rock from still frames to moving...especially in anime. When I consider the animated works I like, I have to admit I lean towards works typically aimed at children, such as the recent Winnie the Pooh film.

Melissia wrote:The best thing about mass effect is all the nerdrage it causes.

True story.

I'm pretty sure that's the best thing about every video game. You should see the forums where people have year long arguments over whether or not Planescape Torment, BG, BG2, or Arcanum is the best RPG ever. Aaaamazing.

And I'm out.

And I'm out.

Awsome

back on topic...

Amaya wrote:[quo

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Totalwar, stop trying to justify your fanservice by comparing it to other media. Its a flawed argument, especially because a significant portion of romance in other media is equally pointless, especially in James Bond films, where is blatant fanservice...why else would they have bimbos named Pussy Galore, etc?

The only reason to explore romance options in video games is if you're an OCD completionist WHO HAS TO DO everything or if you find it titillating. The fact people even discuss the various character traits and emotional merits of possible romance options is somewhat disturbing...more so when they compare them to people in RL...

Its a flawed argument to say they're the same; because they're the same...

They are the same form of media; you should evaluate them accordingly. Theres no difference to me liking Tali and liking Talith (coincidental similarity in names) out of the Wars of Light and Shadow book series. Even a description of a female character in a book could be considered 'titilating' if you employ that measure.

My argument is flawed? I'm confused in the Mass Effect romances you choose to a) pursue them, b) not pursue them, c) pursue them to a sexual end. Now the premise behind the typical western RPG, is that you are the character, correct? You are in this little virtual world, guiding and exploring the story, within the limitations placed by the creators. What is the point of pursuing a romance, particularly one that leads to a cheesy sex scene? Are you arguing that a romantic relationship is somehow more significant than a platonic one? Okay, I can agree with that point, but why is the sexual aspect necessary? Does it add anything to the story, or is it just a random scene tossed in as fanservice? Just like the typical SSC in film, it's nothing but fanservice and the only reason I see to pursue it is sexual gratification.

.

Sexual gratification? You're wondering why I'am taking offense to what you're saying as if I'am being the unreasonable one here. You've came onto this forum specifically to hurl abuse. That prooves you're a jerk and an incredibly petty individual to casually hurl personal insults like that around. You do not know me. You do not know how I think. But more to the point, you, like every other piece of scum doesn't care to hear what my opinion is. You are simply fine to judge and have a laugh. Talking to the likes of you is pointless.

Take it to PMs if you care to continue the conversation, I will not continue to derail the thread in this line of discussion.


From a completionist standpoint, Liara seems to be the most developed relationship at least through ME and ME2. I personally think her voice acting is superior to those of other female romance options. The male romance options seem slightly comical in the first two games, but I may be thinking too much of the PRIZE.

Amaya wrote:

Karon wrote:

Amaya wrote:Dragon Age is certainly worse than World of Warcraft, in addition to being worse than pretty much every decent RPG made in the past 20 years. I could probably write a fething research paper on how bad Dragon Age is. God, I hate that game.

If you're simply comparing which game is better in comparison to its respective peers within its genre than you could say that World of Warcraft is better than Mass Effect and Skyrim, from a stand alone perspective, it's really impossible to say. It's almost as silly as comparing Mario Kart and Madden.

Dragon Age Origins was a great game.

Dragon Age 2 was average overall, and the dislike for it is largely exaggerated.

My point was that you think that comparing an MMO where story is largely irrelevant to an RPG where story is everything. That makes no sense whatsoever.

Since that makes no sense whatsoever, your mindset and general hostile attitude toward "rpg-nerds" is rather pathetic when you consider what website you are on.

Your "superior" attitude is amusing, but rather moronic for my tastes, so I'll do myself a favor and put you on ignore.

I loled at the bolded part. So, there's nothing wrong with the stereotypical skinny fat pasty nerd that shuns sunlight and is unable to function in that vast majority of social environments?
If you take offense at that you either are one, in that case, my condolences, or assume that I am assuming you are one simply because you play 40k and/or video games.

Most of the people I know that play 40k and other wargames are normal college students or mature and responsible adults with families and careers. Sure, they tend to run on the unathletic side, but I've seen several exceptions to that. They might be 'nerds', but they aren't a stereotypical basement troll. If anything those individuals make up less than 1/4 of the gaming population, probably even less than since video gamers, especially those who play RPGs, are no longer ostracized as they once were. There are of course a token remnant, but there's always a percentage of the populace that lurks at the various corners of social norms.

You'll note that I've never actually directly compared WoW to any normal RPG, simply because you can't, for various reasons, but saying that all MMOs lack story is incredibly ignorant, especially considering that the only thing going for SWToR are the various class stories.

But I have yet to ever see a constructive post from you and for whatever reason you respond violently to anyone who disagrees with you, often in a nonsensical manner. It would probably be wise to stop raging over my posts.

Totalwar1402 wrote:

Amaya wrote:Totalwar, stop trying to justify your fanservice by comparing it to other media. Its a flawed argument, especially because a significant portion of romance in other media is equally pointless, especially in James Bond films, where is blatant fanservice...why else would they have bimbos named Pussy Galore, etc?

The only reason to explore romance options in video games is if you're an OCD completionist WHO HAS TO DO everything or if you find it titillating. The fact people even discuss the various character traits and emotional merits of possible romance options is somewhat disturbing...more so when they compare them to people in RL...

Its a flawed argument to say they're the same; because they're the same...

They are the same form of media; you should evaluate them accordingly. Theres no difference to me liking Tali and liking Talith (coincidental similarity in names) out of the Wars of Light and Shadow book series. Even a description of a female character in a book could be considered 'titilating' if you employ that measure.

My argument is flawed? I'm confused in the Mass Effect romances you choose to a) pursue them, b) not pursue them, c) pursue them to a sexual end. Now the premise behind the typical western RPG, is that you are the character, correct? You are in this little virtual world, guiding and exploring the story, within the limitations placed by the creators. What is the point of pursuing a romance, particularly one that leads to a cheesy sex scene? Are you arguing that a romantic relationship is somehow more significant than a platonic one? Okay, I can agree with that point, but why is the sexual aspect necessary? Does it add anything to the story, or is it just a random scene tossed in as fanservice? Just like the typical SSC in film, it's nothing but fanservice and the only reason I see to pursue it is sexual gratification.

Aldarionn wrote:Amaya, you clearly have a difference of opinion on forming any kind of connection with characters in any form of animated media, which tells me that you don't respect voice acting and art development nearly as much as you respect stage/live acting. This kind of thinking is one of the main reasons that people who play video games are considered nerds and freaks when much of the same subject matter that appears in games also appears in films and other forms of media.

So, since your opinion differs so much, and you have clearly stated it, re-stating it isn't bringing anything new or on-topic to this thread so perhaps consider making your own thread if you want to discuss your reasons for disliking romantic relationships in video games, and I will be happy to argue this all day in that thread. That way those of us who do enjoy that content can discuss it in this thread in peace.

Most voice acting is mediocre, but there are many exceptions. Grey DesLisle and Jennifer Hale are excellent to the point that I'll actually look into media that they're in simply because it will probably be pretty good. Mordin, Grunt, the CSM (ME fans call him the Illusive Man, but I know the truth) are also done well. I could go and do a list of every character I think has gotten good voice acting, but that would be pointless. For the most part yes, I would say animated media is inferior. There is a considerable amount of excellent art out there, but for some reason the quality drops like a rock from still frames to moving...especially in anime. When I consider the animated works I like, I have to admit I lean towards works typically aimed at children, such as the recent Winnie the Pooh film.

Melissia wrote:The best thing about mass effect is all the nerdrage it causes.

True story.

I'm pretty sure that's the best thing about every video game. You should see the forums where people have year long arguments over whether or not Planescape Torment, BG, BG2, or Arcanum is the best RPG ever. Aaaamazing.

And I'm out.

Your childish personal attacks with no basis whatsoever aside, I'm sure you remember the thread in which you said the aformentioned Skyrim, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age games were all inferior to World of Warcraft.

I can dig it up if you would really like, but you did indeed say it - that's why I said it.

I also did not say that all MMO's lack story - I specifically cited World of Warcraft.

What I see as amusing about your argument regarding the romances in RPG's like Mass Effect is that you talk about them like they are something that isn't normal.

A romance is something to get to know a person (or character) better. The Jack romance in ME2 emphasizes this the best because of the changes she goes through once you break her down.

On the outside before you get to know her, she is a brash, vulgar, and rather hostile person. Once you start the romance with her, you get to know how she became that person she is.

The one sexual scene they throw in there is normal, and I don't see it as "fan service" at all. Getting to know a person really well and becoming close usually results in sex if both are looking for it.

I have never stated that WoW is superior to Mass Effect or Skyrim.

If I have quote me on it.

Amaya wrote:I have never stated that WoW is superior to Mass Effect or Skyrim.

If I have quote me on it.

I'll go through your post history if I must - It was a while ago.

Ok, here you go. I've included other peoples reactions - including mine - to your post as well.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/434242.page#3996422

Amaya wrote:

Spoiler:

The merge ending is far too similar to the fate of the Lich King.

It's shaping up to be a bad year for Bioware. Estimates are that SW:ToR last lost as many as 60% of its initial subscribers and the ME3 fan rage is the greatest I've witnessed in any fashion since the legendary backlash over Blizzard's plan to add realid to the forums.

It's pretty sad that with Dragon Age 2, Skyrim, SWToR, I still prefer WoW. Gameplay > story.

Kanluwen wrote:

Amaya wrote:

It's shaping up to be a bad year for Bioware. Estimates are that SW:ToR last lost as many as 60% of its initial subscribers

Slightly off-topic, but...
This isn't unusual, at all, for an MMO following its launch. There's a huge surge at the launch, then a massive decline shortly thereafter. A population will tend to level out with a gradual increase and then when expansions come the cycle repeats.

and the ME3 fan rage is the greatest I've witnessed in any fashion since the legendary backlash over Blizzard's plan to add realid to the forums.

Yes, fanbases tend to get ridiculous over leaked ending material.

It's pretty sad that with Dragon Age 2, Skyrim, SWToR, I still prefer WoW. Gameplay > story.

I'm confused. Why are you lumping all of these things in to talk about "you still prefer WoW"? Is WoW suddenly a single player, open-world game like Skyrim(which isn't even a BioWare product, no clue why you've got it in your post there)? An NPC party adventure like Dragon Age 2?

The only reasonable comparison you made was SWTOR, which is a bit silly as in the time since its launch TOR has put out quite a bit of material(a new raid and a new instance), and has a bit more coming very soon(another new raid, another new instance and a whole slew of new quest lines on Corellia).

Karon wrote:Wow, you render your entire argument invalid when you compare Skyrim (which is made by Bethesda...), Dragon Age 2, and SWTOR (a game that came out in late December...) to a game that does the same thing every expansion and has has 8 years to refine itself.

Like, how does your brain calculate those to make a point?

Funnily enough, I noticed you avoided posting for the rest of the thread after you were called out.

Where did I state that WoW is objectively better?

I said I prefer WoW. Apparently you can't have personal preferences.

At no point did I say that it is a better game. I personally prefer the gameplay in WoW to that of Mass Effect of Skyrim, but Mass Effect's combat is weak in comparison to ME2 and none of the TES games have particularly outstanding combat.

You're taking things out of context and twisting them to fit your agenda, which as always, is to hurl pointless insults.

Amaya wrote:Where did I state that WoW is objectively better?

I said I prefer WoW. Apparently you can't have personal preferences.

At no point did I say that it is a better game. I personally prefer the gameplay in WoW to that of Mass Effect of Skyrim, but Mass Effect's combat is weak in comparison to ME2 and none of the TES games have particularly outstanding combat.

You're taking things out of context and twisting them to fit your agenda, which as always, is to hurl pointless insults.

Gameplay > story.

That part led to the assumption by myself and others, broseidon.

Comparing the gameplay of an MMO like WoW to the gameplay of Mass Effect 1, 2, or 3 is idiotic. Comparing it to Skyrim's combat even more so.

I agree the combat in ME1 was bland compared to ME2.

I agree that combat in any of the TES games was bad.

Again, you're taking things out of context.

The full statement includes prefer. Upon stating that common sense should dictate that all that follows is personal opinion and not an objective evaluation.

Now, I could objectively state that gameplay in WoW is superior to that in SWToR because SWToR had horrible ability lag and was an almost direct copy of WoW's system (which I'm sure was copied from other MMOs). Once the ability lag is fixed, SWToR's gameplay will be objectively on par with, or perhaps even better than WoWs.

I simply prefer the way WoW handles spellcasting to the way Skyrim does, particularly with my Fire Mage.

TLDR: Preference =/= objectivity

Amaya wrote:Again, you're taking things out of context.

The full statement includes prefer. Upon stating that common sense should dictate that all that follows is personal opinion and not an objective evaluation.

Now, I could objectively state that gameplay in WoW is superior to that in SWToR because SWToR had horrible ability lag and was an almost direct copy of WoW's system (which I'm sure was copied from other MMOs). Once the ability lag is fixed, SWToR's gameplay will be objectively on par with, or perhaps even better than WoWs.

I simply prefer the way WoW handles spellcasting to the way Skyrim does, particularly with my Fire Mage.

TLDR: Preference =/= objectivity

You ended your statement includng "prefer" and then put an overarching statement "GAMEPLAY > STORY", implying that the gameplay centered mindset of WoW was superior to the story-focused games you listed before that.

SWTOR's ability lag was fixed back in January IIRC. It does a LOT of things better than WoW, including the "Story" part, but WoW is the better game obviously because it has had 8 years to develop.

Comparing the combat in Skyrim to an mmo like WoW, including spellcasting, makes no sense. You are clearly intelligent, this isn't hard to understand.

I'm not comparing them, I'm saying I prefer one.

You can't really compare yahtzee and blackjack, but you can prefer one.