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FlingitNow wrote:A model gesturing +1 to his armour saves giving him rolls between 2 and 7 but his armour save remains unchanged

Nowhere in the rules does it say you add +1 to the dice roll.
Where are you getting this idea from?
Certainly not the rule book or codex.

Man, if anyone tried to use an invulnerable chariot on me by this logic, I would pack all my models up, let the FLGS owner know that a player is trying to kill the fun out of a product he sells, and leave.

Here's a better interpretation if we're really going to get this trolly:

Only ICs on chariots are ever allowed to take multiple armor saves in the same turn.

Get it? There's an S at the end! You don't see that often, must be there for a reason! If I take 2 hits, I am allowed to make 2 saves, because a add +1 to my armor saves! Unfortunately, if a chariot gets hit 3 times, he has to take a wound.

That's better than everything else. They can only save 1 wound. Volume of fire is awesome in 6th now guys!

Rewriting my lists to contain nothing but TLAC, CIB, psycannons, etc!

Just give it up, dude.

It doesn't work like that, and the arguement you're laying out will get you laughed out of any 40K game for trying to be a cheeseball.

in 40K (unlike real world math/english) +1 to saves means that your armour got better by one (3+ becomes 2+, for example). You can have +1000 to saves, and still fail them on a roll of 1.

Trying to argue immortality for a model will just make people look at you funny, and refuse to play you

katfude wrote:Man, if anyone tried to use an invulnerable chariot on me by this logic, I would pack all my models up, let the FLGS owner know that a player is trying to kill the fun out of a product he sells, and leave.

I stopped playing for 6 years because I could not find anyone else to play with save 2 guys like this who twisted the rules to make them win always. One of them tried to tell me that Counter Attack meant that he charges and I don't get the bonuses even though I am the one who charged him. I am glad I found a good group of guys who are not asshats to enjoy the game again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My wife just said something that made me lol. I was talking about this and she said (note, she has never played any type of wargame in her life, and has no interest in the details or specifics of the ones I play) "No game manufacturer would give someone an invincible model. If he wants to say 'my model is immortal you can't hurt it' he needs to go out back and play pretend with the neighbor kids."

FlingitNow wrote:Rigeld none of those examples refer to a specific model. So multiple models would indeed result in multiple armour saves. The chariot rules relate to a single model which can only ever have 1 save. Its not rocket science people. This is fairly straight forward. A model gesturing +1 to his armour saves giving him rolls between 2 and 7 but his armour save remains unchanged

Yes is is straightforward.

Does Better = improved, yes or no? (Clearly this is a yes to, well everyone.)


From P.19:

"MAXIMUM SAVE
Some models gain additional benefits from rules that may increase any of their Saves by +1 or +2 or even more. However, no save (armour, cover or invulnerable) can ever be improved beyond 2+."

P.19 tells us that +1 = increase = lower save = improved.

P.16: "This means that, unlike other characteristics, an Armour Save is befter if it is a lower number."

So lower is better = increased = improved So: +1 for a 3+ armor save = 2+ armor saves.

Indisputable proof.

DeathReaper wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:Rigeld none of those examples refer to a specific model. So multiple models would indeed result in multiple armour saves. The chariot rules relate to a single model which can only ever have 1 save. Its not rocket science people. This is fairly straight forward. A model gesturing +1 to his armour saves giving him rolls between 2 and 7 but his armour save remains unchanged

Yes is is straightforward.

Does Better = improved, yes or no? (Clearly this is a yes to, well everyone.)


From P.19:

"MAXIMUM SAVE
Some models gain additional benefits from rules that may increase any of their Saves by +1 or +2 or even more. However, no save (armour, cover or invulnerable) can ever be improved beyond 2+."

P.19 tells us that +1 = increase = lower save = improved.

P.16: "This means that, unlike other characteristics, an Armour Save is befter if it is a lower number."

So lower is better = increased = improved So: +1 for a 3+ armor save = 2+ armor saves.

Indisputable proof.

This. A thousand times this

Fling - just give up. You keep making up rules to suit, and ignoring those proving you wrong. You have yet to conjure the word "roll" into that sentence, and pretending it is there is just making you look very, very foolish

I'd suggest *actually* reading the quotes given, and realising you are just flat out, 100% wrong.

What nosferatu said.


Not to mention even if you were somehow right fling, a NATURAL ROLL of a 1 ALWAYS FAILS regardless of modifiers.

Just like the reserve section says a NATURAL ROLL of 1 prevents the reserve regardless of any +1 to my roll I may have from psychic communion.

If you pick up that D6 and roll it, and it turns up a 1, you basically wouldn't even get to the step of "adding" your fantasy +1 because the NATURAL ROLL already auto failed.

I would like to point out that his entire argument is moot.

Codex Necrons. Page 52 Catacomb Command Barge
Unit type : vehicle Fast Open topped Skimmer

Rulebook Page 413
Catacomb Command Barge Type : F, O, S, T

Rulebook page 410
Key: Vehicle Types: Fast=F Flyer=Fl Heavy=Hv Hover=H Open-topped=O Skimmer=S Tank=Tk Transport=T Walker=W

both the rulebook and the codex DO NOT say its a chariot.

And while yes I do realize the thing is likely MEANT to be a chariot...


Edit: Thanks regeld2 yes faq states CCB adds chariot. By all means please continue your cheese argument

... That's an interesting find. And nothing in the Chariot rules imply that it's a typo (ie there's no examples using a CCB)

edit: Ah. It's in the FAQ that it gets added.

I have heard a rumor there will be a zero armor save where what you rolls kill enemy models