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Dito.

I like the look of these ships that just came out, it's obvious that they want to release ships for objective games and also release ships that are going to get the Firestorm armada players ready for their Firestorm Invasion miniatures. I'm excited for both, and the rate in which they are releasing miniatures is insane, I hope they can keep up with themselves haha.


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Sorry about double post, but just had to let everyone know there was a lot more put out this week than just those two ships.

Thank you for updating this thread.

The more I've been looking into this game, reading the rulebook, etc., listening to old episodes of Firebase Delta, etc., the more I am realizing the game needs to be about objectives and scenarios and whatnot.

The scenarios in the main book might be slim pickings, but this is one area the fan base seems to have stepped up to help eachother out.

I love that refinery ship.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Thank you for updating this thread.

The more I've been looking into this game, reading the rulebook, etc., listening to old episodes of Firebase Delta, etc., the more I am realizing the game needs to be about objectives and scenarios and whatnot.

The scenarios in the main book might be slim pickings, but this is one area the fan base seems to have stepped up to help eachother out.

I love that refinery ship.

I agree, however I am pretty sure that they are releasing a full campaign book with scenarios and all, so this might fix the issue you are having. And thank you, since I found this game I have fallen in love with it and only wish to see it grow. However, I LOVE the look of those Syndicate ships.

Just burned through this thread and gotta say I support everything the nay-sayer said. I side with him and not the pony thing. I learned everything I needed to know about Firestorm Armada by watching batreps on the tube. There really are no tactics. It really is just move to band 2 and roll 6s. After watching those I decided to pick up a game that actually uses tactical maneuvering, DROPZONE COMMANDER http://www.hawkwargames.com/pages/dropzone-commander. Check it out. Buy lots of their stuff. Unless you like ponies.

In the Youtube report I watched, one player made a huge error and decided not to target the enemy battleship whatsoever. By the time later turns rolled around, it was raking his vessels and the victory points margin widened drastically.

So somehow you can have tactical blunders in a game with no tactics. How curious...

I've also seen ships keep rolling sixes which lead to more sixes which lead to more sixes which lead to more sixes which lead to the destruction of a ship that the firing ship had no business destroying. Rolling sixes isn't a tactic.

Do you know what sounds like an interesting tactical puzzle? How do you defeat another person's fleet when their lighter vessels can theoretically inflict massive damage on your larger ones.

Here are some hints:

1) maneuver such that a larger portion of your fleet can engage a smaller portion of theirs at optimum firing distance and then move on to the remainder of their fleet.

2) Position yourself in such a way that if they wish to bring about the best arc of fire for their ships, they'll have to deal with asteroids and other terrain.

3) Figure out which ships are ideal targets for boarding and which are not. Deploy escorts and wings of smaller craft as needed to make sure this happens.

4) Use your weapons that work great at longer ranges to force them to close to a degree that you have the opportunity to close and fire at optimal range before they do. This may involve using some of your force as bait or sacrificing some of your assets.

Yep. No tactics at all. Nothing to see here.

Post Human Republican wrote:
Rolling sixes isn't a tactic.

Funny. The first game of Dropzone Commander I saw consisted of all the infantry diving into buildings hoping to roll a 6 to find an objective and then leave the table. A grand total of two shots taken the entire game with the rest of the game being a not so tactical, boring camp fest behind terrain while waiting for the infantry to roll well. They could have saved themselves the trouble of setting everything up and just rolled dice until someone scored two sixes.

If all I'm going to do is try to roll a 6 to win, at least give me the chance to make shooty noises while I do it.

FA's not perfect but most of the batreps you see have no terrain at all and are a straight up "kill em all" game. Add terrain and a different objective (and there are TONS of games out there to borrow objective ideas from) and the game becomes more than just a "RB2/roll lots of 6s" fest.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
If I count my experience with FA and DW together, this makes 6 of of 6 matches where some small-fry one-shotted an undamaged battleship.

This is a bit late, but I just wanted to explain to people who don't know the system what you're claiming here. Battleships have around a critical rating of 10, and 8 hit points. For each multiple of the critical rating, you cause 2 damage. So you're saying that a small ship rolled forty hits on maybe 6 dice max, where a 4-5 is one hit and a 6 is two hits and a reroll? And that happened in six games in a row?

Or maybe you mean they got ten hits for one critical, then got a double 1 for magazine explosions. And that again, this happened six games in a row?

I think it's much more likely someone was misreading a rule there.

Small ships come in squadrons and are quite a pain in the ass to shoot out of the water with the bigger vessels, especially when these get within band 1.

 Elemental wrote:

I think it's much more likely someone was misreading a rule there.

Yes, yes I was

Thanks for making me go back and read the damage rules.

The crit snakeyes/boxcars did happen 2-3 times.

The rest was one-shots through excessive sixes, but as it turns out, I've been playing it wrong for years (since FA first came out) and all 4 different opponents did as well

We thought that 24 hits were enough to kill a DR6/CR10/HP8 ship (4 damage for beating the DR four times over and 4 from the two crits).

I still think getting 24 hits with a small ship shouldn't happen, but I don't thing we ever got 40, so that's 4-5 ships that should have survived

It's a dice game, anything can happen. Ships with one or two shield generators and some very ballsy rolling have turned a totally wrecked ship into one that isn't even scratched.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Do you know what sounds like an interesting tactical puzzle? How do you defeat another person's fleet when their lighter vessels can theoretically inflict massive damage on your larger ones.

Here are some hints:

1) maneuver such that a larger portion of your fleet can engage a smaller portion of theirs at optimum firing distance and then move on to the remainder of their fleet.

2) Position yourself in such a way that if they wish to bring about the best arc of fire for their ships, they'll have to deal with asteroids and other terrain.

3) Figure out which ships are ideal targets for boarding and which are not. Deploy escorts and wings of smaller craft as needed to make sure this happens.

4) Use your weapons that work great at longer ranges to force them to close to a degree that you have the opportunity to close and fire at optimal range before they do. This may involve using some of your force as bait or sacrificing some of your assets.

Yep. No tactics at all. Nothing to see here.

The funny thing is that none of that works in the scenario you outlined in firestorm armada. None of it. Four out of four are either inapplicable or result in your loss. Why do firestorm "players' never seem to have played the game before?

 ShumaGorath wrote:
The funny thing is that none of that works in the scenario you outlined in firestorm armada. None of it. Four out of four are either inapplicable or result in your loss. Why do firestorm "players' never seem to have played the game before?

Could be they're all shills or liars on payroll of Spartan. Could be they're purposefully stoking up the outrage here in order to drive users away from Dakka. Could be your enemies out for a personal vendetta. Pick a theory and run with it, is what I'd say.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:
The funny thing is that none of that works in the scenario you outlined in firestorm armada. None of it. Four out of four are either inapplicable or result in your loss. Why do firestorm "players' never seem to have played the game before?

Could be they're all shills or liars on payroll of Spartan. Could be they're purposefully stoking up the outrage here in order to drive users away from Dakka. Could be your enemies out for a personal vendetta. Pick a theory and run with it, is what I'd say.

My theory is that players who haven't quit firestorm are ones that either are't looking for a deep or tactical game (which is perfectly ok) or can't recognize when something isn't those things (which isn't perfectly ok). As to people seemingly not knowing the basic mechanics of the game and trying to use bizarre real world scenarios in their place, I have no idea.

I've got to be honest here, I've been playing FA quite a bit lately to familiarize myself with the rules, my fleet, and how to move my fleet tactically. All I can say is whomever claims there are no tactics in this game obviously has not played much with it, or has only taken two starter fleets against each other.

For example, these are all the things you must keep in mind when playing FA.

1) Is your fleet balanced?

This is an obvious thing you need to consider, I've been losing games as of late due to the fact that my fleet is not balanced. I currently have 4 destroyers, 6 Frigates, 3 cruisers, a battleship, a light carrier, and my super carrier. With all the points I dump into the capital ships I've seen that they don't have enough supporting fire from smaller ships to keep them around long enough to do their damage. So a tactic I have learned from this already is to make sure you don't lack in the smaller class vessels.

2) Bombers are golden.

The only reason I have been playing as well as I have been is my mass of bombers that fly around and just destroy everything. Bombers are the tool in a force when used properly can control an entire flank, this is only true if the other player lacks interceptors or fighters to destroy said bombers. Yet another tactic learned.

3) Know which to activate first.

In FA you take turns activating squadrons, so instead of activating your entire fleet at a time, you'd activate a battleship, and then your opponent would activate some cruisers, and then back and forth. I've learned in the last view games how important it is to know what to activate first and what it should be firing at, if you don't activate the right thing you could be in for a messy time.

4) Mines, glorious mines!

Mines are fun, especially if you play as the Aquan Prime. I've only just started using them in my fleets, however I've seen some rather interesting things done with them. I've put them down to halt the advance of incoming Terran cruisers, however they did not halt, hit my mines and became crippled. Mines work as a very nice tool to control flanks and put the enemy where you want them. It also forces your opponent to not keep their ships so tight cause if a ship comes close to one it will most likely hit the others too.

5) Ship positioning and firing.

A fun thing I have noticed is ship positioning when firing. Unlike most games you can have your ships fire at multiple targets. Since really understanding this rule I tend to try to manover my ships in such a way that I can maximize their firepower out put. It's risky but you can drive your ships up through the middle and have all firing arcs fire on different ships. I once had two cruisers on either side of a line of frigates, positioned them in about the center of that line and fired. I was able to hit the frigate to the port and starboard of my ships, fire my Fore's at one ahead, and my aft at the one I had already passed. If it works and you don't roll alot of 1-3's, you can make your opponent shake their head.

Those are just some things that I have noticed that you can play around with tactics, and we haven't even been playing most our games with terrain yet. Also GAME CARDS add a significant amount of fun and tactics in the game, throwing in twists and when to give your ships some bonuses. I suggest getting them if you're going to be playing FA.

To the Naysayers and this hoax about 'a light ship taking out a huge ship time and time again by rolling sixes", I have to say this is complete bollocks. I have seen a full squadron of frigates link fire on a battleship and do damage to it, but I've never seen it explode by rolling 40 some off hits. I have see double crits happen, but that is when those sixes start rolling, but even then, that is not enough to make it explode. In turn, I usually just see the battleship activate next and wipe out most of those frigates that just tried taking it down XD.

Dindrenzi vs Terren Alliance

Below is my Report to High Command concerning the Battle over Ambrose III.

Gen. Jagher Von Riech

SFT- Standard Fleet Time.

Dindrenzi Fleet

1-Conqueror Class
3-Fury Class
6-Hammer Class



412th Terren Tactical Fleet

Razorthorn Class, BB, Sovereign

Sentinal Class, CL, Shannon

Sentinal Class, CL, Minotaur

Artemis Class, CL, Warrior

Pilgram Class, DD, Scimitar

Pilgram Class, DD, Scout

Pilgram Class, DD, Tactician



At 0:21 Standard Fleet Time BB-Sovereign detecting ships shunting into system approximately 36 standard range units from our position. It was apparent that the Dindrenzi wished to test our defenses as the fleet although led by one of their Battleships was not strong enough to do anything more. At 0:36SFT A group of Hammer class ships opened a volley on DD, Scout. The Scout erupted in a ball of flames, no scans of the area shown survivors. Vice Admiral Takahashi Minimoto then ordered BB, Sovereign into action. At a range of 14 standard range units Sovereign opened up on the group of Dindrenzi Hammer class ships; two of which where destroyed outright with the third damaged. Then the Dindrenzi Battleship made itself felt. Along Sovereigns Starboard hull from the enemy battleship tore great holes in our armor, and caused a fire to start in our rear quarter. I ordered the Marines under my command to aid in damage control at this point. At 0:38SFT CL, Warrior had reached a firing solution on the Damaged Hammer Class. All of Warriors shots rang true and the Hammer was left destroyed. Again as CL, Warrior was engaging the damaged Hammer the Sovereign was hit by enemy fire from a group Fury Class ships. Our armor proved stout and Sovereign received minimal damage. In response CL, Shannon, and CL, Minotaur opened Fire on the Dindrenzi Battleship at a range of 12 standard range units. The Dindrenzi Battleship seemed to shutter and then in a blinding flash detonated, our scans detected an overload in the enemy ships propulsion systems just prior to the detonation. At 0:39SFT the remaining group of Hammer Class ship turned away from our fleet. The DD, Scimitar, and DD, Tactician gave chase and fired torpedoes but they where ineffective. BB, Sovereign again let her guns fire her target a Fury Class, our scans indicated she was preparing to shunt out of the system. Our fire rang up and down the fury classes hull destroying her in a moment. Between 0:40 SFT and 0:41 SFT our remaining fire proved not enough to stop the remaining Dindrenzi ships from shunting out of the system. Vice Admiral Minimoto then ordered DD, Scimitar and DD, Tactician to range out and do long range scans. No further enemy activity was detected.

Noted and Logged at 01:52 SFT

Gen. Jagher Von Riech Commander 1224th Marine Regiment attached to BB-Sovereign.

I have to admit, I've never been a fan of the 'exploding 6' model - it would have to be an exceptional game that has received exceptional reviews for me to overcome that bias...

 ShumaGorath wrote:

The funny thing is that none of that works in the scenario you outlined in firestorm armada. None of it. Four out of four are either inapplicable or result in your loss. Why do firestorm "players' never seem to have played the game before?

Nonsense. I just did a few of them in a game today. Everything was relatively centre on the table and I started moving things off to the right. As we alternated, it became apparent to my opponent what I was doing. As I wasn't closing with him directly and he was playing a a fleet that had its best weapons on the broad side, his battleship on my left needed to spend an extra turn to get into range band 2 and get the ideal targets in his broad side. I used tactics to ensure my fleet had an extra turn of fire without facing the full brunt of his largest two ships. It made a huge difference.

Would it have worked against Terrans? No. It would not have because of their turrets. I would have had to take a different approach.

Something tells me all the people who think there is no tactics just move directly at eachother making "pew pew" sounds and then complain about the lack of tactics.

If moving directly at someone (making 'pew pew' sounds is optional) is a more often than not successful 'tactic', there might be problems...

 frozenwastes wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

The funny thing is that none of that works in the scenario you outlined in firestorm armada. None of it. Four out of four are either inapplicable or result in your loss. Why do firestorm "players' never seem to have played the game before?

Nonsense. I just did a few of them in a game today. Everything was relatively centre on the table and I started moving things off to the right. As we alternated, it became apparent to my opponent what I was doing. As I wasn't closing with him directly and he was playing a a fleet that had its best weapons on the broad side, his battleship on my left needed to spend an extra turn to get into range band 2 and get the ideal targets in his broad side. I used tactics to ensure my fleet had an extra turn of fire without facing the full brunt of his largest two ships. It made a huge difference.

Would it have worked against Terrans? No. It would not have because of their turrets. I would have had to take a different approach.

Except the situation outlined involved medium ships fighting swarms of frigates or other "small" ships. Those have an average speed of 11 inches and can hop to RB2 in 2 turns unless you've come to a full stop or your entire fleet is moving laterally. If your entire fleet is floating sideways and you aren't Sorelians than you're losing. If you're doing that and you're Sorelians you're still losing since you're paying an opportunity cost of your front and other side arc and those are in your points payed. If you're not moving you're losing because you've just upped the effectiveness of their weapons by a third.

Your only realistic recourse is to move foreward and shoot your guns. You'll probably win since frigates overpay on speed and speed is valueless in a game where everything has the same effective ranges and there is virtually no benefit to flanking or rear attacks.

Something tells me all the people who think there is no tactics just move directly at eachother making "pew pew" sounds and then complain about the lack of tactics.

Something tells me you've never actually looked at the game very critically.


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 Alpharius wrote:
If moving directly at someone (making 'pew pew' sounds is optional) is a more often than not successful 'tactic', there might be problems...

It's basically the only tactic. You can manipulate turn ordering by spamming squadrons of single ships (you used to be able to do this with fighters and payed almost no cost to force the opponent to always fire out of his effective ranges), but I think thats more just bad game design than an intended tactic.

Hmmm...so as a non-player of FSA what im reading here is semi-wonky rules with great models...


So I guess...buy FSA models, use with Full Thrust rule system...


Id guess this same description of the rules is relatively true of Dystopian Wars naval battles as well...yes? no?

Nonsense. I just did a few of them in a game today. Everything was relatively centre on the table and I started moving things off to the right. As we alternated, it became apparent to my opponent what I was doing. As I wasn't closing with him directly and he was playing a a fleet that had its best weapons on the broad side, his battleship on my left needed to spend an extra turn to get into range band 2 and get the ideal targets in his broad side. I used tactics to ensure my fleet had an extra turn of fire without facing the full brunt of his largest two ships. It made a huge difference.

Would it have worked against Terrans? No. It would not have because of their turrets. I would have had to take a different approach.

Something tells me all the people who think there is no tactics just move directly at eachother making "pew pew" sounds and then complain about the lack of tactics.

I've stopped feeding the troll.

@Mad
Without getting involved in this rather superfluous discussion: Nope, Dystopean Wars naval battles need quite some brains and only get boring when you play on a blue mat without any obstacles. But any game without obstacles gets boring soon. As soon as you put some islands on the table and place them well you really get something to do.

 Mad4Minis wrote:
Id guess this same description of the rules is relatively true of Dystopian Wars naval battles as well...yes? no?

As I understand it, the two rules systems are very similar. As it stands, I wouldn't buy into either of them.

Actually they share parts, but DW is a rather a way improved big sibling of FSA and US.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Elemental wrote:

I think it's much more likely someone was misreading a rule there.

Yes, yes I was

Thanks for making me go back and read the damage rules.

(blinkblink) You're welcome. I think all groups have had blind spots in rules, where one player learns the rules from another and nobody checks the book. And it's very mature of you to admit a mistake on the internet too, when most people would just have dug in.

In my experience of Dystopian Wars, the Spartan system really isn't as ultra-lethal as it might seem. There is the odd crazy run of sixes, but quite often, that happens on a small target that one critical would have killed anyway. I can count the number of times I've rolled or taken 4+ damage from one hit (and it actually mattered) on the fingers of one hand.

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

Nonsense. I just did a few of them in a game today. Everything was relatively centre on the table and I started moving things off to the right. As we alternated, it became apparent to my opponent what I was doing. As I wasn't closing with him directly and he was playing a a fleet that had its best weapons on the broad side, his battleship on my left needed to spend an extra turn to get into range band 2 and get the ideal targets in his broad side. I used tactics to ensure my fleet had an extra turn of fire without facing the full brunt of his largest two ships. It made a huge difference.

Would it have worked against Terrans? No. It would not have because of their turrets. I would have had to take a different approach.

Something tells me all the people who think there is no tactics just move directly at eachother making "pew pew" sounds and then complain about the lack of tactics.

I've stopped feeding the troll.

Did you run out of equivocations and poorly explained reasoning that doesn't stand up to minor scrutiny? That's a shame.


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 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Mad4Minis wrote:
Id guess this same description of the rules is relatively true of Dystopian Wars naval battles as well...yes? no?

As I understand it, the two rules systems are very similar. As it stands, I wouldn't buy into either of them.

DW seems like it would work much better as a system to me, even if it used an identical system to FSA. Not being able to move through your own units and aircraft paying a points cost for that capability fixes an immense number of the problems with FSAs simplicity.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Mad4Minis wrote:
Id guess this same description of the rules is relatively true of Dystopian Wars naval battles as well...yes? no?

As I understand it, the two rules systems are very similar. As it stands, I wouldn't buy into either of them.

I kinda agree. My wife and I are liking the FSA ships, but I think we will skip the rules and stick with Full Thrust. Ive played that several times and I already know I like the system.