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 azazel the cat wrote:

Amaya wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Well what do you know about the Taliban Az. Remember their a grp of people I really....HATE...along with AQ and the insurgents. So to me labeling a grp the "Taliban" is below low. Yes I know its a show and yes I condemn the show for myself on that remark. So let me know what you know about them.

What I know about the Taliban, in a nutshell:
-Hardcore enforcers of Sharia Law, specifically of that found in the Sunnah (spelling?) combined with a bunch of arbitrary gak that I think Mullah Omar just kinda felt like one day.
-Committed multiple instances of ethnic cleansing.
-Scorched Earth policy against their own civilians, denied international food aid to them as well.
-Kidnap women for the purposes of human trafficking, despite their claims to adhering to Sharia Law.

That's the bullet-point version. Now, don't get me wrong. I hate them as well -and I do not use that term lightly. But if the Tea Party (perhaps not in its original form, but now that it has mutated into the -extreme- Christian right) was operating somewhere that they believed they would suffer no earthly repurcussions for their actions, I suspect they might behave in a similarly vicious and extreme manner, though obviously endorsing a different flavour of values.

Hmm, here I was thinking you didn't like making sweeping generalizations.

I guess it's okay to use them against people you hate.

Care to specifiy which sweeping generalizations? Because I'm pretty sure I can find you as many sources as need be to back up my knowledge of the Taliban.

Your ridiculous claim that the Tea Party would turn into murderers if they thought they could get away with it.
We get it, you hate Christians and right wingers and are convinced they want to kill everyone...then you wonder why those same people are paranoid and are convinced that liberals want to wipe them out...oh, yeah...that's because they do!

At least based on your statements.

Hey...they also kill you if your not really a muslim to. I don't see the Tea Party willing to kill anyone who's not a christian.

As I understand it the Tea Party started out as a populist anti-government/anti-tax movement, with some decent points and reasonable ideas, which quickly got co-opted by two other groups:

1. Politically-active rich people like the Koch brothers, who want fewer laws to restrict their activities and lower taxes for their own benefit.
2. Assorted crazies and hateful whack jobs, including racists and religious bigots, who have a long history of anti-government attitudes, and used the Tea Party as a platform for their own hate and evil.

The kind of (un)Christian bigots who have insinuated themselves into the Tea Party movement are the same kinds of folks who regularly vandalized shops, made false police reports against, and otherwise harassed and intimidated members of minority religions when I was growing up. I believe it still goes on to some extent today, but I'm less tied into the main Neopagan community, so I hear about it less.

I think the white supremacist movement might actually be growing.

Manny. Do you actually see the Tea Party being the American Taliban?

Jihadin wrote:Az your just touching the surface. Do you know a woman thats raped will be executed for adultry? Story recently about that. Does everyone else on this thread think the Tea Party is capable of pulling off a version of the Taliban here? We're a bit more educated then the Taliban for even letting that happen here.

Yes, I was aware of that. And I think if the Tea Party had their way, women who have abortions would be executed for murder.

Amaya wrote:

Spoiler:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Amaya wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Well what do you know about the Taliban Az. Remember their a grp of people I really....HATE...along with AQ and the insurgents. So to me labeling a grp the "Taliban" is below low. Yes I know its a show and yes I condemn the show for myself on that remark. So let me know what you know about them.

What I know about the Taliban, in a nutshell:
-Hardcore enforcers of Sharia Law, specifically of that found in the Sunnah (spelling?) combined with a bunch of arbitrary gak that I think Mullah Omar just kinda felt like one day.
-Committed multiple instances of ethnic cleansing.
-Scorched Earth policy against their own civilians, denied international food aid to them as well.
-Kidnap women for the purposes of human trafficking, despite their claims to adhering to Sharia Law.

That's the bullet-point version. Now, don't get me wrong. I hate them as well -and I do not use that term lightly. But if the Tea Party (perhaps not in its original form, but now that it has mutated into the -extreme- Christian right) was operating somewhere that they believed they would suffer no earthly repurcussions for their actions, I suspect they might behave in a similarly vicious and extreme manner, though obviously endorsing a different flavour of values.

Hmm, here I was thinking you didn't like making sweeping generalizations.

I guess it's okay to use them against people you hate.

Care to specifiy which sweeping generalizations? Because I'm pretty sure I can find you as many sources as need be to back up my knowledge of the Taliban.

Your ridiculous claim that the Tea Party would turn into murderers if they thought they could get away with it.
We get it, you hate Christians and right wingers and are convinced they want to kill everyone...then you wonder why those same people are paranoid and are convinced that liberals want to wipe them out...oh, yeah...that's because they do!

At least based on your statements.

I don't hate Christians, and I don't hate the Tea Party. (not yet, at least. But they're really working towards it) And I don't hate right-wingers. Not at all.

I admit that socially, I'm pretty far left, whereas politically I'm as left as a left-centerist can be. But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to working with the right. I think they are needed for a proper discourse and a necessary counterbalance. However, the Tea Party does not have such tolerant views, and do not work towards compromise. I find the Tea Party to be led by a range of people who border on insane to being completely insane, and have begun a two-for-one crusade to both economically ruin everyone that isn't a Koch brother, and inhibit the personal rights of women and homosexuals under the guise of their cherrypicked lines of scripture. They may not have begun this way, but that's what they appear to be now. Their movement has been taken over by extreme Christian fundamentalists, and I think they no longer resemble the party they set out to be.

But I am very wary of people whose morals are defined by avoiding improper action only because they're scared that St. Peter will catch and punish them. I view those people are being irrationally dangerous, because the instant they think St. Peter isn't paying attention, they become morally void. And that's effectively what Christianity boils down to: a magical panopticon. I'm as nervous around those people as you are around a guy with face tattoos in a dark alley.

Additionally, I don't like the encroachment of Christian fundamentalists trying to incorporate their ignorant (that's not an editorial, that's the correct word) dogma into public school systems and social policy. I wish I could just live and let live, but the very nature of churches is built on their acquiring greater social control, and as a result that's where battle lines get drawn.

Now, I don't think that hardcore Christians want to kill everybody. But I'm pretty sure that any Christian who claims to follow the Bible literally would gladly beat to death a homosexual if they thought that they could get away with it. After all, their holy book condones that behaviour. And a large number of American Christians claim to take the Bible literally.

Now, as far as the Taliban goes, obviously the Christian fundamentalists aren't going to compare very well. But then, I wouldn't be too surprised if, when their backs were against the wall and they really felt that their way of life -as they interpret God's teachings- were under serious attack, some of these kids might be convinced to pull out the ol' holy hand grenade.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:Manny. Do you actually see the Tea Party being the American Taliban?

For me, I compare them that way in the same way that I compare instant decaf coffee to actual coffee: I refuse to claim they are one and the same and resent the notion that I do such a thing; but I can't discount the rhetorical similarities between the two.

 Jihadin wrote:
Manny. Do you actually see the Tea Party being the American Taliban?

A) We do have to keep this in perspective. No one in the US is actually doing what the Taliban does or did. No one is beheading infidels in stadiums or stoning people to death.
B) The Tea Party is too big and has too many local and regional variations to paint EVERY member with any given brush. I have met a number of decent guys locally who invited me to events and were basically the same as most of the Libertarians I've known as a kid and an adult, speaking as someone who's parents ran for Congress and Governor as Libertarians.
C) The public face of what the Tea Party has turned into, in big rallies, on the news, in politicians like Michelle Bachman, is often disgusting and horrible and un-American. In fact I do feel like it'soften closer in spirit and beliefs to the Taliban than it is to the principles I hold dear as a patriotic American.

Check out those links Azazel just posted, and tell me none of those are scary to you.

Nope doesn't scare me. When they act on it and go "God Wills It" or "Allah Ackbar" then I have a problem with it. Then you get to watch the US Military play on the homefield. Then you will see the US Military refuse the POTUS if he/she condones the "Taliban" action and orders the US military support their action.

 Melissia wrote:
Their hatred of Ron Paul is about the only thing I agree with them on.

Just for wildly different reasons.

True that

 Jihadin wrote:
Nope doesn't scare me. When they act on it and go "God Wills It" or "Allah Ackbar" then I have a problem with it. Then you get to watch the US Military play on the homefield. Then you will see the US Military refuse the POTUS if he/she condones the "Taliban" action and orders the US military support their action.

A lot of the ones I know are also the ones stockpiling weapons and ammo for when the government "turns on them" so that they can fight the military if needed.

Heck, my dad is a prepper and we have an emergency plan to get to his house/compound if needed. But at least he is a pro-government prepper.

I see the US getting flushed due to debt first before I see a American "Taliban" group or a Civil War

 Jihadin wrote:
I see the US getting flushed due to debt first before I see a American "Taliban" group or a Civil War

Where in the US do you live and how long has it been since you lived there? Some areas are more ripe with crazy, and depending on how long you have been deployed they may have gone nuttier.

Like I said before. Mass riots and protest.

Rural Oklahoma is pretty much full of crazy tea party folks that are stockpiling, especially south-eastern Oklahoma. When I was running with the Fire Department we always had to be careful during certain wildfires because we could be operating in areas that were booby trapped by militia types.

We are not at Taliban level, but we have areas and groups that are filled with powder and I fear that it wouldn't take much to set it off.

And just because one is more violent than the other doesn't mean that their ideological bases and motivations don't match up.

They are more at Muslim Brotherhood levels with an option to upgrade to Taliban in the future should they not win all the time.

 Jihadin wrote:
I go with the Tea Party...I mean seriously...your not going to have leeway on Greater Texas with Frazz jack booted weiner dogs on patrol

Yes, the wiener legion requires many many many boots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Rural Oklahoma is pretty much full of crazy tea party folks that are stockpiling, especially south-eastern Oklahoma. When I was running with the Fire Department we always had to be careful during certain wildfires because we could be operating in areas that were booby trapped by militia types.

We are not at Taliban level, but we have areas and groups that are filled with powder and I fear that it wouldn't take much to set it off.

And just because one is more violent than the other doesn't mean that their ideological bases and motivations don't match up.

Many are stockpiling because they fear another Obama bullet bubble, or negative legislation, as has been proposed.
Many wild areas in California have boobytraps from weed growers/cartels now.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I go with the Tea Party...I mean seriously...your not going to have leeway on Greater Texas with Frazz jack booted weiner dogs on patrol

Yes, the wiener legion requires many many many boots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Rural Oklahoma is pretty much full of crazy tea party folks that are stockpiling, especially south-eastern Oklahoma. When I was running with the Fire Department we always had to be careful during certain wildfires because we could be operating in areas that were booby trapped by militia types.

We are not at Taliban level, but we have areas and groups that are filled with powder and I fear that it wouldn't take much to set it off.

And just because one is more violent than the other doesn't mean that their ideological bases and motivations don't match up.

Many are stockpiling because they fear another Obama bullet bubble, or negative legislation, as has been proposed.
Many wild areas in California have boobytraps from weed growers/cartels now.

The bullet bubble pissed me off. Seriously, for all the talk about how crappy .380 ammo really is when it comes to stopping power I was surprised how many people were buying every single box they could. Couldn't get any decent range time in for over a year before it returned to normal.

Besides, who are these amateurs buying bullets. Really militia types reload their own.

So no one has a problem pointing a weapon at an american who went "Taliban" eh

 Jihadin wrote:
So no one has a problem pointing a weapon at an american who went "Taliban" eh

Define "Taliban"....

Let me clarify. Then no one has an issue pointing a weapon at an american who has one pointed at them.

 Jihadin wrote:
So no one has a problem pointing a weapon at an american who went "Taliban" eh

What?

Personally I'd rather shoot first and then run the hell away if I can, but I never claimed to be overly brave. Self defense is about keeping alive and unharmed, not about being "OMGWTFBBQ HARDASS CHICA FACE DOWN TERRORISTS GRRR!".

Leave that to the gangsters and the testosterone poisoned idiots who think that they're going to take down the government with their pea shooters.

 Jihadin wrote:
Let me clarify. Then no one has an issue pointing a weapon at an american who has one pointed at them.

Would you have a problem pointing a gun at a person, regardless of religion, nationality, baseball card collection, ect that had a gun pointed at you? I think once the gun is pointed at you that pretty much overrides anything else. Do you really want to be laying there bleeding to death from a gunshot wound thinking "It's ok that he shot me...he's....an American....".

 Jihadin wrote:
Let me clarify. Then no one has an issue pointing a weapon at an american who has one pointed at them.

I don't have an issue defending myself against anybody that has a weapon pointed at me regardless of nationality or ideology.

I fail to see how this changes the fact that there are people stockpiling to fight the government for the same ideological reasons that the Taliban had.

Remember this next time someone ask me if I have a problem shooting an american citizen in my capacity as a soldier.

 Jihadin wrote:
Remember this next time someone ask me if I have a problem shooting an american citizen in my capacity as a soldier.

Game.
Set.
Match.

I never made that claim, so don't look at me.

I just think that the "hurr hurr rebellion hurr" argument is nonsense, and is effectively based off of delusions and misrepresentations.

 Amaya wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Remember this next time someone ask me if I have a problem shooting an american citizen in my capacity as a soldier.

Game.
Set.
Match.

/thread

 d-usa wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Let me clarify. Then no one has an issue pointing a weapon at an american who has one pointed at them.

I don't have an issue defending myself against anybody that has a weapon pointed at me regardless of nationality or ideology.

I fail to see how this changes the fact that there are people stockpiling to fight the government for the same ideological reasons that the Taliban had.

You've made that statement but not proved that statement. On the gun threads the occasional militia type gets on about govenrment taking our guns and our rights. I don't see any connection between that and Taliban wacking 30 people who went to a party. Its almost antiTaliban. As noted, most others have "stocked up" because they are worried about another bulllet buble or that laws will be passed the limit firearms/ammunition or make it substantially more expensive. As both Obama, Holder, Pelosi, and Reid have said such things, and that a bullet bubble did occur previously, such fears are not overstated.

 Jihadin wrote:
Remember this next time someone ask me if I have a problem shooting an american citizen in my capacity as a soldier.

For me that would depend on why you are shooting them as a soldier .

Using the military to take down an armed rebellions is certainly an acceptable use of force in my opinion.