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New mexico introduces a bill that would make abortions "Tampering with evidence" in rape cases.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 d-usa wrote:
Yes, you do. Per the new paragraph that they want to insert into the 50 year old law:

with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime.



You only have to prove that the father forced the mother into an abortion, with the intent to destroy evidence of a crime. Any doctor, or adviserial friend, is an immediate accomplice; regardless of knowledge.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

So if a person spikes a bag of IV fluids with poison, and then the nurse infuses that bag because she didnt know it was tampered with, the nurse is an accomplice in murder. Gotcha....
   
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Fort Campbell

 d-usa wrote:
So if a person spikes a bag of IV fluids with poison, and then the nurse infuses that bag because she didnt know it was tampered with, the nurse is an accomplice in murder. Gotcha....


When I gave a "friend" the keys to my car so he could get something from it, and he was later arrested that day breaking into someones house, using my car, they threatened to charge me as an accessory as well, even though I was completely clueless.

Now they didn't, but the law certainly seems to work that way.

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Leerstetten, Germany

So the reasonable thing to do will be to make it legal for rapists to force abortions on their victims.
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 d-usa wrote:
If the doctor performs the abortion with the intent to destroy evidence, then he is performing a criminal act.

How do you prove that intent?

If somebody else is forcing the woman to have an abortion with the intent of destroying the evidence, then that person if performing a criminal act, and not the doctor that doesn't know what is going.

You have to prove that the doctor had intent to destroy evidence of a rape or incest. That little nugget is written in the law.

Yes, which again I have to ask:
How do you prove that intent?

And after reading the paragraph again, it doesn't make it a crime to perform the abortion either.

Only to coerce (force) or to facilitate (make it easier) to have an abortion with the intent (which has to be proven in court) to destroy evidence.

Nothing in that law makes the doctor an accomplice unless he is doing it for free to help a buddy out.

Again, how do you prove it?

I know you're not knee-jerk defending this or simply being argumentative or anything. I'm just seeing far too much leeway in a bill such as this.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Intend would have to be proven by the prosecutor. Safe practice could be simple steps such as keeping tissue samples for DNA analysis later of needed. If you keep evidence you could easily prove that your indent was never to destroy it.

But considering that this has already been the law for 50 years, and that this issue has never come up, I would not be that worried about it.
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 d-usa wrote:
So if a person spikes a bag of IV fluids with poison, and then the nurse infuses that bag because she didnt know it was tampered with, the nurse is an accomplice in murder. Gotcha....


Yes, that's how aiding and abetting works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 d-usa wrote:

But considering that this has already been the law for 50 years, and that this issue has never come up, I would not be that worried about it.


Yes, the relevant statute that the good representative is attempting to amend has been law for ~50 years.

I'm not sure why that's relevant though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/26 22:06:04


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

So should we make it legal to force people to have abortions to protect the doctors? Because the bill isn't changing the law, it has been illegal to force abortions for 50 years in that state. And somehow no doctors have felt like it Keeps them from doing their job.
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 d-usa wrote:
So should we make it legal to force people to have abortions to protect the doctors? Because the bill isn't changing the law, it has been illegal to force abortions for 50 years in that state. And somehow no doctors have felt like it Keeps them from doing their job.


You're now arguing that a proposed amendment to a law is not changing the law?

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

It clarifies it, it doesn't change it.

If you think otherwise please explain.
   
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Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor

Does anyone know the work address of the guy introducing this bill? I suggest we all send him letters about how we feel about this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/28 08:50:11


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Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 d-usa wrote:
It clarifies it, it doesn't change it.

If you think otherwise please explain.


In legislative terms, a clarification generally refers to appellations along the lines of "This shall not be construed to..." When you make a positive addition, the law is fundamentally changed, and this law makes a positive addition.

For example:

An amendment to a law against theft that claims "This shall not be construed to apply to those stealing bread for their hungry children." is a clarification.

An amendment to a law that claims "All people stealing bread are guilty of theft." is a fundamental alteration.

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I think what d-usa meant was that the new bill doesn't change the fact that it makes it illegal to force a woman to have an abortion.
If she wants one herself, it's another matter entirely and not covered by this particular law.

And no, giving someone the advice to get one for reasons XY and/or Z do not constitute forcing her; that's the thing about advice, you can take it or leave it if you think you know better.
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Is there a single documented case of someone forcing a woman to get an abortion to conceal evidence?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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 Ouze wrote:
Is there a single documented case of someone forcing a woman to get an abortion to conceal evidence?

http://ordinaryevil.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/incest-victim-forced-into-abortion-by-her-rapist-father-sues-planned-parenthood-for-failure-to-report-the-crime/

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on the forum. Obviously

I do not understand the logic.

Isn't it possible to perform the abortion, and keep a part of the fetus for dna testing? Fetuses can be used for paternity tests, can't they?

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Pleasant Valley, Iowa



OK, now I'm moving the goalposts - sorry. Isn't that specific case already covered by existing law?. Also, offtopic, but why didn't anyone besides the father go to jail over that, as an accessory? Messed up case.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

 Ouze wrote:
Is there a single documented case of someone forcing a woman to get an abortion to conceal evidence?


Since when has that ever mattered?


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I'd just liked to state for the record that I jumped at this boots first and that d-usa was totally right.

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Leerstetten, Germany

I won't hold that against you, it can be our dirty little secret...
   
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Lakewood, Ohio

 d-usa wrote:
I won't hold that against you, it can be our dirty little secret...


Oh baby

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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'd just liked to state for the record that I jumped at this boots first and that d-usa was totally right.

I did the same thing...

Did I say D was right? If not... "D... you aight!"

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