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valion's article wrote:Paying women to wrestle half naked is not entertainment.

Obviously shows the source is not reputable.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't the psychological theory be technically sexist as well, as its implying that the women could not make choices of their own?

Women's ability to make choices is constrained by their position as the weaker half of society.

Is that why taking away their opportunity to make a choice is so important? In order to ensure that their choice-making ability isn't constrained?

 Hordini wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't the psychological theory be technically sexist as well, as its implying that the women could not make choices of their own?

Women's ability to make choices is constrained by their position as the weaker half of society.

Is that why taking away their opportunity to make a choice is so important? In order to ensure that their choice-making ability isn't constrained?

Yes, clearly if they don't have things like "should I jelly wrestle" to worry about they can spend more time worrying about shoes and babys. I mean, how is a woman able to make sure dinner is ready on time and the iorning is done when her head is full of conflicted ideas about jelly wrestleing?

There's only one thing to ask feminists not in favor of that fine sport:

"u jelly?"

 Monster Rain wrote:
Obviously.

I just find it ironic that because the activity allegedly deprives women of agency, they are depriving women of the right to make their own decision on the matter.

They aren't. Women can still jelly wrestle as much as they like. The Wyvern Club can't provide a venue. It is the male club that has been deprived of agency.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

They aren't. Women can still jelly wrestle as much as they like. The Wyvern Club can't provide a venue. It is the male club that has been deprived of agency.

Of course they can, if they so choose. And it's hardly about agency. It rarely if ever is.

Wait, so there's an agency for getting female Jelly Wrestlers from?

I must say they've come on a long way in a very short space of time. First voting, then working and now this. I hope the chap in charge of the agency treats them well.

Cracking effort girls, someone buy them a drink - no that's sexist! Get them to buy the drinks. There that's better.

 notprop wrote:


Cracking effort girls, someone buy them a drink - no that's sexist! Get them to buy the drinks. There that's better.

No, that's sexist as you only ask them to buy their own drinks because they are girls!

HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
It's a choice that isn't free of coercion. You can do it, or you're one of

1000 jealous and sexually frustrated females

Wrong. You can also be a woman who does not want to participate yourself, but will not fight to stop others doing it either. It's like the difference between supporting same-sex marriage despite not being gay yourself, and being a homophobic bigot.

Me, I'm a sex-positive feminist and a libertarian. As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, I'm generally going to be in favour of people doing what they want.

Sorry, but you don't get to decide if you're "jealous and sexually frustrated" or not. They do. That's part of what makes it so fun.

What your saying, if I understand, is that anyone against the petition, and calling the people who did sign the petition "jealous and sexually frustrated" is saying that anyone not wanting to jelly wrestle is "jealous and sexually frustrated", which is utter nonsense.

Of course people are going to make broad and unflattering attacks against anyone who trys to stop the doing something, that dose not mean they are attacking anyone who is not activly for them doing something.

Again you are asuming that people do not have a choice or that we should ban anything where there is a risk of social pressure. That is just a bad idea. You encorage people to have confidence and you stop people who use bullying, you don't ban anything where there is a chance of bullying. You can be for something and against the use of coercion to get someone to participate.

There has been no evidence or implication that there was any coercion involved in this case at all.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They aren't..

I think you'll find that to be incorrect upon further reflection.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Women can still jelly wrestle as much as they like. .

Given your apparent utter disregard for the context of the discussion, I struggle to belive that you're being serious right now.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Wyvern Club can't provide a venue. It is the male club that has been deprived of agency.

Which was prompted by accusations of sexism.

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

Hypocrisy.

It's delicious !

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

Words fail

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

I think revulsion is a good word for what I'm feeling right now.

Arousal isn't what I should be feeling? <(O.o)>

 sebster wrote:
Well, of course its sexist. That's the kind of the point of the jelly, trying to move about in it is pretty undignified, meaning the girl is not only a sexual attraction but also just a little bit demeaned.

The second point being that it's okay to have sexism in some situations. I think in general we've got to the point now where we accept that both sexes just want to have some good, dirty fun time to time and a society that gets all shocked and bothered every time it happens would be a boring place.


And that leaves the question of whether or not its okay to be sexist in this particular situation, and that in turn depends on who you're asking. Ask society at large and the answer is it probably isn't okay, given the party seems to have been open to all to attend, but that it really wasn't so bad as to justify shutting it down (which we can tell by the simple fact that the party was not shut down by authorities). Ask the people hosting this party and the answer seems to be that it was okay, but then when people made a big deal about it they agreed that it wasn't okay (which means the whole thing wasn't that big of a deal, and so when it looked like it might hurt their chances to have sex in the future, they just let it go).

This is correct. They made the call from a PR perspective, not an admission of right or wrong or whatever. It was just simpler for them not to deal with the circus that was building around it.

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

Wow, no more sympathy or "I can sorta kinda almost see where she's coming from" from me anymore. This is the sort of bovine excrement that feths up the, for lack of a better word, "real" feminism.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Wow, no more sympathy or "I can sorta kinda almost see where she's coming from" from me anymore. This is the sort of bovine excrement that feths up the, for lack of a better word, "real" feminism.

But would her reaction have been the same if it wasn't for a male dominated world, and the influence that has had on her actions?

 sebster wrote:
Well, of course its sexist. That's the kind of the point of the jelly, trying to move about in it is pretty undignified, meaning the girl is not only a sexual attraction but also just a little bit demeaned.

The second point being that it's okay to have sexism in some situations. I think in general we've got to the point now where we accept that both sexes just want to have some good, dirty fun time to time and a society that gets all shocked and bothered every time it happens would be a boring place.


And that leaves the question of whether or not its okay to be sexist in this particular situation, and that in turn depends on who you're asking. Ask society at large and the answer is it probably isn't okay, given the party seems to have been open to all to attend, but that it really wasn't so bad as to justify shutting it down (which we can tell by the simple fact that the party was not shut down by authorities). Ask the people hosting this party and the answer seems to be that it was okay, but then when people made a big deal about it they agreed that it wasn't okay (which means the whole thing wasn't that big of a deal, and so when it looked like it might hurt their chances to have sex in the future, they just let it go).

Would it still be considered sexist if there was both a male and female version of jelly wrestling because wouldn't that remove the unequal treatment of gender for this event as both genders are now being a little demeaned and sexualized?

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

I... wait... what?

 Cheesecat wrote:
Would it still be considered sexist if there was both a male and female version of jelly wrestling because wouldn't that remove the unequal treatment of gender for this event as both genders are now being a little demeaned and sexualized?

That would have been a great work around for it

 Manchu wrote:

Nina de Paula Hanika wrote:I feel very strongly that women telling other women what to do is wrong, which is why the entire petition statement was directed towards the male organisers of the event.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-22450573

My head hurts now.....

 Rented Tritium wrote:
This is correct. They made the call from a PR perspective, not an admission of right or wrong or whatever. It was just simpler for them not to deal with the circus that was building around it.

That's a clearer and much more concise way of saying what I was trying to say.

Man I hate it when that happens


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cheesecat wrote:
Would it still be considered sexist if there was both a male and female version of jelly wrestling because wouldn't that remove the unequal treatment of gender for this event as both genders are now being a little demeaned and sexualized?

I don't know. But I think the bigger point there is that there really isn't such a thing as male jelly wrestling, and to the extent it does exist its only as a comical, "don't guys look silly doing this" kind of thing. And that's because basically what women find attractive isn't the same as what men find attractive.

That's doesn't make it wrong, but it does make the whole issue more problematic. Basically, because men and women are basically different, then we aren't going to have the same life experiences - the simple fact is women are likely to be pressured at some point in their life to do something sexually gratifying for men, even if its just kissing another women out on a night clubbing, while men simply aren't going to face the same pressure. So sure, we could just say 'women are just as free to invite men to jelly wrestle as men are to invite women to do so' but we know those things aren't really the same in the real world.

Exactly how much we balance that reality against the concerns of becoming a very boring, moralistic society is the big question. In this case, for instance, it seems it was an open invite to jelly wrestle, if a girl wanted to. That is fine, to me, in a way that, for instance, guys walking up to pretty girls on campus and asking them to participate wouldn't be.