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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 14:14:01
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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These guys better watch out... Big Brother TM may have their phones tapped:
http://www.fox19.com/story/22380127/reality-check-exclusive-cincinnati-agent-giving-orders-in-irs-scandal
The six Cincinnati workers we have identified, who sent scrutinizing letters to conservative groups with words including "patriot, liberty, tea party or 9-12" in their names are Mitchel Steele, Carly Young, Joseph Herr, Stephen Seok, Liz Hofacre and a woman identified only as Ms. Richards.
But was all of this done at the hands of a small group of Cincinnati employees working together? During Friday's congressional hearing, that appeared to be the theme. Now, that explanation just became less likely.
Thanks to two FOX19 sources connected to the IRS, we now understand the chain of command for these workers.
Mitchel Steele, Carly Young, Joseph Herr and Liz Hofacre are IRS agents. Stephen Seok is a supervisor IRS agent.
But according to the IRS employee directory that FOX19 has obtained exclusively, each of these agents has a different manager and then above them a different territory manager.
That is important because while it may sound reasonable to the average person that these workers began targeting groups on their own, the IRS structure is designed to prevent that.
Here is how that works.
When an application for tax exempt status comes into the IRS, agents have 270 days to work through that application. If the application is not processed within those 270 days it automatically triggers flags in the system. When that happens, individual agents are required to input a status update on that individual case once a month, every month until the case is resolved.
Keep in mind, at least 300 groups were targeted out of Cincinnati alone. Those applications spent anywhere from 18 months to nearly 3 years in the system and some still don't have their non-profit status. 300 groups multiplied by at least 18 months for each group, means thousands of red flags would have been generated in the system.
So who in the chain of command would have received all these flags? The answer, according to the IRS directory, one woman in Cincinnati, Cindy Thomas, the Program Manager of the Tax Exempt Division. Because all six of our IRS workers have different individual and territory managers, Cindy Thomas is one manager they all have common.
It turns out Cindy Thomas' name is one we have heard before. The independent journalism group ProPublica says in November of 2012 they had requested information on conservatives groups that had received non-profit status. Along with that information, the IRS released private information on nine conservative groups that had not yet been approved and personal information had not been redacted. The person who signed off on that release, Cindy Thomas. (whembly: WTF!!!!!!!)
What this means for you... consider this chain of command since the story broke.
Former Acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller… retires
Joseph Grant, Commissioner of Tax Exempt and Government Entities... retires.
Lois Lerner, Head of Exempt Organization…says she will invoke her 5th amendment right to not incriminate herself when called before Congress on Wednesday.
Holly Paz, Director of Exempt Organizations, subpoenaed to Washington to be interviewed by members of Congress.
All of this IRS leadership, in Washington D.C.
Then one level down is Cindy Thomas, the highest ranking employee in Cincinnati in this Tax Exempt and Government Entities Department that no one in Congress is talking to... yet.
And that is Reality Check.
Mrs. Thomas needs to be subpoena'ed stat!.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/22 14:14:15
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 14:54:29
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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I wonder have Ms. Thomas's lawyers already drafted her letter saying that she is pleading the 5th?
It is making the claim that it was not politically motivated more and more transparent.
It'll be interesting to see what the chain of command was like in the other offices, and whether or not a similar pattern will emerge there.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/22 14:57:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:17:36
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Looks like the IG's investigation ended a full year ago, despite telling Congress to the contrary (thats called a lie guys). Sounds like contempt of Congress charges are in order for at least one guy.
So if this ended so long ago, how come no one has been fired again?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329067/Congress-hosts-IRS-bloodbath-slamming-tax-authorities-partisan-targeting-conservatives-official-refuses-answer-questions.html
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:41:53
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Courageous Grand Master
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You answered your own question a few months ago in a different thread, when you told me that nobody gets fired in Washington.
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"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/22 15:47:43
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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I'd hate to be a cleaner in Congress, because it looks like there's going to be an awful lot of blood spilled over this. It seems that the more information that comes out about the IRS there are more questions raised than answers given.
Copy & paste from Frazz's link for those reading on phones/work blocked (my emphasis added)
Tempers flared in a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing Wednesday, with members on both sides of the aisle castigating the Internal Revenue Service for targeting conservative groups with special scrutiny, and then hiding the practice from Congress.
Rep. Darrel Issa, the committee's chairman, said that the committee learned just yesterday that the IRS completed its own investigation a year before a Treasury Department Inspector General report was completed.
But despite the IRS recognizing in May 2012 that its employees were treating right-wing groups differently from other organizations, Issa said, IRS personnel withheld those conclusions from legislators.
'Just yesterday the committee interviewed Holly Paz, the director of exempt organizations, rulings and agreements, division of the IRS,' Issa said. 'While a tremendous amount of attention is centered about the Inspector General's report, or investigation, the committee has learned from Ms. Paz that she in fact participated in an IRS internal investigation that concluded in May of 2012 - May 3 of 2012 - and found essentially the same thing that Mr. George found more than a year later.'
'Think about it,' he continued: 'For more than a year, the IRS knew that it had inappropriately targeted groups of Americans based on their political beliefs, and without mentioning it, and in fact without honestly answering questions that were the result of this internal investigation.'
Deputy Treasury Secretary Neal Wolin testified that he was unaware of that IRS investigation until he read other officials prepared testimony just a few days ago.
Lois Lerner, the Director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS, made a brief opening statement recounting the recent history of the agency's scandal. Her attorney told the committee on Tuesday in a letter that she would refuse to answer questions by invoking her protections under the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
'I have not done anything wrong,' she said. 'I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations and I have not provided false information to this or any other committee.'
Issa dismissed Lerner from the hearing, over objections from South Carolina Republican Rep. Trey Gowdy, who insisted that she should be forced to answer questions since she had 'waived her right' to refuse 'by issuing an opening statement.'
'She ought to stay and answer questions,' Gowdy said, to sudden applause from some in the audience gallery.
Issa then kept Lerner in the hearing room, asking her if she would answer any questions at all.
'I will not answer any questions or testify today,' she replied.
Issa then asked if she would answer questions about her previous testimony before Congress.
'i decline to answer that question, for reasons I have already given.'
Lerner was dismissed a second time and left the hearing room with her lawyer, but not before Issa cautioned that she could be recalled and forced to testify in the future if committee attorneys determined that she had forfeited her Fifth Amendment rights by making an opening statement.
One top Democrat breathed fire, warning that prosecutions could result.
Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Stephen Lynch said that if witnesses stonewalled the committee there would be legal consequences.
'If you refuse to answer,' Lynch said, 'you will leave us no choice but to ask for a special counsel or the appointment of a special prosecutor to get to the bottom of this.'
'I hope that’s not the approach of the IRS going forward,'he added. 'Because there will be hell to pay.'
Rep. Jim Jordan, an Ohio Republican, linked the tea party scandal with the implementation of President Obama's Affordable Care Act.
'This administration, this agency, the very agency charged with enforcing Obamacare,' Jordan said in an opening statement, 'systematically targeted groups that came into existence because they opposed Obamacare - and they started the targeting the very month, March 2010, that Obamacare came into law - expects us to believe it is the work of ‘two rogue agents.'
The Obama administration, Jordan reminded those in the hearing room, also 'told us and told the American people that the attack that killed four Americans in Benghazi was the work - was caused by a video.
'The people don’t buy it,' he said. 'The American people get it. They just want this administration to give them the truth. And that’s why this hearing is so important.'
Wolin also disclosed that Treasury Secretary Jack Lew got a heads-up in March - a month before White House Counsel Kathy Ruemmler - that an Inspector General report would soon be issued. That notification, he said, came from the Inspector General himself.
'On March 15, 2013, Mr. George had a short introductory meeting with Secretary Lew,' Wolin's prepared remarks read.
'At that meeting, Mr. George informed Secretary Lew of a number of matters TIGTA [the Inspector General office] was reviewing. He also indicated that this audit report would be forthcoming. Mr. George did not describe any details of his audit findings. This was also in line with standard practice.'
Florida Republican Rep. John Mica explained in his remarks why the IRS scandal may have overtaken the other two public-perception challenges that the Obama administration faces, whose being the 2012 Benghazi terror attack and the Justice Department's spying on reporters.
His tax-paying constituents, Mica said, find that it resonates especially well with them.
'I don’t think I've ever seen any investigation or review by this committee or subject that has so riveted and shocked the American people,' Mica said.
'I went home last weekend and almost to a person everyone asked me about this.'
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 00:01:21
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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A local newsman was fired from a CBS affiliated newstation:
My producer, Kevin, was just contacted by someone with Conners’s legal team. KMOV just terminated his employed on the basis of, according to them, his Facebook post, which I first covered here.
This stinks the high heavens man.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 00:13:25
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Posting something on a corporate site you have access to that wasn't approved by corporate is grounds for firing in most companies and is not unusual. I wouldn't be so quick to wrap this wrinkle into the larger story just yet. After all, it's going to be difficult to simultaneously argue that the media is in the tank for obama while also being persecuted by the IRS on his behalf, yes?
That being said - he said he was "hammered" by the IRS since then. Hammered... how? Was he suddenly audited every year? This sounds like the follow up question that should have been asked, but wasn't. Perhaps Darrell Issa will have a chance to ask it at some point.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 00:40:28
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:Posting something on a corporate site you have access to that wasn't approved by corporate is grounds for firing in most companies and is not unusual. I wouldn't be so quick to wrap this wrinkle into the larger story just yet. After all, it's going to be difficult to simultaneously argue that the media is in the tank for obama while also being persecuted by the IRS on his behalf, yes?
That being said - he said he was "hammered" by the IRS since then. Hammered... how? Was he suddenly audited every year? This sounds like the follow up question that should have been asked, but wasn't. Perhaps Darrell Issa will have a chance to ask it at some point.
But he didn't post anything inappropriate about his corporation....
The "whole media is in tank for Obama" died down at the moment when the AP scandal broke out.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 00:42:30
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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It's not that it was about the corporation, it's that it wasn't an approved message (regardless of the content). I'm speaking in generalities since the OP has been removed and I don't know what he said.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 00:46:40
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:It's not that it was about the corporation, it's that it wasn't an approved message (regardless of the content). I'm speaking in generalities since the OP has been removed and I don't know what he said.
And you don't think that "looks bad"?
So... he posted something on his personal FB that was not in any way "contrary" to KMOV. He states his opinion...
And what do you mean by "approved message"?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 00:47:45
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 01:04:09
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Their post indicates it was not his personal facebook, but rather a corporate facebook account. Is that not so? the URL - https://www.facebook.com/LarryConnersKMOV/ - strongly indicates he does not own the account. As such, any unauthorized posting could get him fired regardless of how the company feels about the issue.
So far as looks bad, who knows - we can't see any of the content in question at all. I'm saying we cannot infer anything from what is now non-existent. Is there perhaps a cached copy somewhere?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/23 01:07:08
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 01:14:16
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:Their post indicates it was not his personal facebook, but rather a corporate facebook account. Is that not so? the URL - https://www.facebook.com/LarryConnersKMOV/ - strongly indicates he does not own the account. As such, any unauthorized posting could get him fired regardless of how the company feels about the issue.
So far as looks bad, who knows - we can't see any of the content in question at all. I'm saying we cannot infer anything from what is now non-existent. Is there perhaps a cached copy somewhere?
Oh... I see. This is what he said (I still have it on my FB):
Shortly after I did my April 2012 interview with President Obama, my wife, friends and some viewers suggested that I might need to watch out for the IRS.
I don’t accept “conspiracy theories”, but I do know that almost immediately after the interview, the IRS started hammering me.
At the time, I dismissed the “co-incidence”, but now, I have concerns … after revelations about the IRS targeting various groups and their members.
Originally, the IRS apologized for red-flagging conservative groups and their members if they had “Tea Party” or “patriot” in their name.
Today, there are allegations that the IRS focused on various groups and/or individuals questioning or criticizing government spending, taxes, debt or how the government is run … any involved in limiting/expanding government, educating on the constitution and bill of rights, or social economic reform/movement.
In that April 2012 interview, I questioned President Obama on several topics: the Buffet Rule, his public remarks about the Supreme Court before the ruling on the Affordable Care Act. I also asked why he wasn’t doing more to help Sen. Claire McCaskill who at that time was expected to lose. The Obama interview caught fire and got wide-spread attention because I questioned his spending.
I said some viewers expressed concern, saying they think he’s “out of touch” because of his personal and family trips in the midst of our economic crisis.
The President’s face clearly showed his anger; afterwards, his staff which had been so polite … suddenly went cold.
That’s to be expected, and I can deal with that just as I did with President George H. Bush’s staff when he didn’t like my questions.
Journalistic integrity is of the utmost importance to me. My job is to ask the hard questions, because I believe viewers have a right to be well-informed. I cannot and will not promote anyone’s agenda – political or otherwise – at the expense of the reporting the truth.
What I don’t like to even consider … is that because of the Obama interview … the IRS put a target on me.
Can I prove it? At this time, no.
But it is a fact that since that April 2012 interview … the IRS has been pressuring me.
Conners had asked questions such as:
“The economy is a big concern for folks, I mean the unemployment, trying to make ends meet, gas prices, food prices going up. Some of our viewers are complaining that they get frustrated and angered when they see the first family jetting around different vacations and so forth …”
THATS a tough question? o.O
See what I mean?
EDIT #2: here's the video:
http://www.stltoday.com/video-larry-conners-interviews-the-president/html_edc17dbb-9c38-5be8-858c-f7042366501e.html
Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: The IRS did find that they owed back-taxes prior to the interview... (Saw that in the STL Post, but can't find it).
But the thing is he never TOOK a political position on the posts in question. He stated a) that he was being investigated by the IRS following his interview. b) added in later that he admitted to back tax issues in a followup stl post. As for appearance of bias... HOLY CRAP, do they even watch their own broadcasts anymore?  But, hey... it's St. Louis. *shrugs*
EDIT #3: Here's the StLouis Post article:
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/columns/joe-holleman/larry-conners-fired-from-kmov/article_eca2b7fc-92a3-5578-b866-914639a3da6c.html
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/23 01:26:21
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 17:10:17
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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I saw this on my twitter feed... Kristen Powers, a liberal democrat, reminded everyone that leaks that make Obama look good aren't beinginvestigated,. Remember the OBL operation with Team Seal 6? Yeah... that was a leak.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 17:20:41
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Don't be silly, it's only worth investigating something when it doesn't benefit you
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 22:38:38
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Holy smokes... just saw this on my MSNBC twitter feed...
Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on a controversial search warrant that identified Fox News reporter James Rosen
Um... didn't he testify in front of congress that he recused himself? Or, was that the AP one...???
o.O It's hard to keep the scandals straight these days.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/23 22:38:47
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/23 23:19:38
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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whembly wrote:Holy smokes... just saw this on my MSNBC twitter feed...
Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on a controversial search warrant that identified Fox News reporter James Rosen
Um... didn't he testify in front of congress that he recused himself? Or, was that the AP one...???
o.O It's hard to keep the scandals straight these days.
In fairness you aren't the only one. The Administration seems to be having problems too judging by how often they have to revise their version of events
Yeah, it was the Ap case that he recused himself from, although there are questions over when he did and the manner in which he did.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/24 14:36:06
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Well... looks like Holdner is fibbing...
During testimony under oath Eric Holder told Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) that targeting journalists was bad policy and something he’d never been involved in.
Here's what he said:
“First of all you’ve got a long way to go to try to prosecute the press for publication of material. This has not fared well in American history… In regard to potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material. This is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy.“
And yet Holder OK'd search warrant for Fox News reporter's private emails, via NBC:
Attorney General Eric Holder signed off on a controversial search warrant that identified Fox News reporter James Rosen as a “possible co-conspirator” in violations of the Espionage Act and authorized seizure of his private emails, a law enforcement official told NBC News on Thursday.
The disclosure of the attorney general’s role came as President Barack Obama, in a major speech on his counterterrorism policy, said Holder had agreed to review Justice Department guidelines governing investigations that involve journalists.
"I am troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable," Obama said. "Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs."
Rosen, who has not been charged in the case, was nonetheless the target of a search warrant that enabled Justice Department investigators to secretly seize his private emails after an FBI agent said he had "asked, solicited and encouraged … (a source) to disclose sensitive United States internal documents and intelligence information."
Obama's comments follow a firestorm of criticism that has erupted over disclosures that in separate investigations of leaks of classified information, the Justice Department had obtained private emails that Rosen exchanged with a source and the phone records of Associated Press reporters.
Holder previously said he recused himself from the AP subpoena because he had been questioned as a witness in the underlying investigation into a leak about a foiled bomb plot in Yemen. His role in personally approving the Rosen search warrant had not been previously reported.
A Justice Department spokeswoman did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The Department of Justice later issued a statement about the review of media guidelines: “This review is consistent with Attorney General Holder's long-standing belief that freedom of the press is essential to our democracy," it said. "At the same time, the attorney general believes that leaks of classified information damage our national security and must be investigated using appropriate law enforcement tools. We remain steadfast in our commitment to following all laws and regulations intended to safeguard national security as well as the First Amendment interests of the press in reporting the news and the public in receiving it."
The law enforcement official said Holder's approval of the Rosen search, in the spring of 2010, came after senior Justice officials concluded there was "probable cause" that Rosen's communications with his source, identified as intelligence analyst Stephen Kim, met the legal burden for such searches. "It was approved at the highest levels-- and I mean the highest," said the law enforcement official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He said that explicitly included Holder.
Kim has since been indicted on charges that he leaked classified information to Rosen about how North Korea would respond to a United Nations resolution condemning the country's nuclear program. He has denied the charges.
In an affidavit in support of a search warrant to Google for Rosen's emails, an FBI agent wrote that the Fox News journalist -- identified only as "the Reporter" -- had "asked, solicited and encouraged Mr. Kim to disclose sensitive United States internal documents and intelligence information."
"The Reporter did so by employing flattery and playing to Mr. Kim's vanity and ego,” it continued. “Much like an intelligence officer would run a clandestine intelligence source, the Reporter instructed Mr. Kim on a covert communications plan that involved" emails from his gmail account.
The affidavit states that FBI agents had tracked Rosen’s entrances and exits of the State Department in order to show that they had coincided with Kim’s movements. Based on that and other findings, the affidavit by FBI Agent Reginald B. Reyes, stated, “There is probable cause to believe that the Reporter has committed a violation” of the Espionage Act “at the very least, either as an aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator of Mr. Kim.”
It also said that Google was specifically instructed not to notify “the subscriber” -- Rosen -- that his emails were being seized.
In new documents disclosed Thursday, the Justice Department sought and obtained approval to keep the search warrant, which was approved by a federal magistrate, under seal. It was unsealed in November 2011, but never made a part of the docket of Kim’s case and went unnoticed until this week.
Justice officials have since said they do not intend to criminally charge Rosen, but media groups have condemned the issuance of the search warrant itself.
"The Justice Department's decision to treat routine newsgathering efforts as evidence of criminality is extremely troubling and corrodes time-honored understandings between the public and the government about the role of the free press," said Bruce Brown, executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.
In his speech Thursday, Obama reiterated his determination to pursue leak investigations. "We must enforce consequences for those who break the law and breach their commitment to protect classified information," he said.
But, he said, "Our focus must be on those who break the law," not journalists. He said he was calling on Congress to pass a media shield law and had raised the issue with Holder, "who shares my concern."
As part of the Justice Department review of guidelines, the president said, Holder will convene a group of media organizations to hear their views and “report back to me by July 12th."
And yet... Holdner is tasked to review... himself?
o.O
I must be off the reservation... but, isn't that a conflict of interest there?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/24 14:42:08
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Just a slight conflict of interests
So he said that under oath is he now leaving himself open to accusations of lying under oath, or attempting to mis-lead the House?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/24 23:14:56
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:Just a slight conflict of interests
So he said that under oath is he now leaving himself open to accusations of lying under oath, or attempting to mis-lead the House?
It gets worst...
HOW PROSECUTORS FOUGHT TO KEEP ROSEN’S WARRANT SECRET:
The Obama Administration fought to keep a search warrant for James Rosen’s private e-mail account secret, arguing to a federal judge that the government might need to monitor the account for a lengthy period of time.
The new details are revealed in a court filing detailing a back and forth between the Justice Department and the federal judges who oversaw the request to search a Gmail account belonging to Rosen, a reporter for Fox News. A 2009 article Rosen had written about North Korea sparked an investigation; Ronald C. Machen, Jr., the U.S. Attorney who is prosecuting Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, a former State Department adviser who allegedly leaked classified information to Rosen, insisted that the reporter should not be notified of the search and seizure of his e-mails, even after a lengthy delay.
E-mails, Machen wrote, “are commonly used by subjects or targets of the criminal investigation at issue, and the e-mail evidence derived from those compelled disclosures frequently forms the core of the Government’s evidence supporting criminal charges.”
He argued that disclosure of the search warrant would preclude the government from monitoring the account, should such a step become necessary in the investigation. Machen added that “some investigations are continued for many years because, while the evidence is not yet sufficient to bring charges, it is sufficient to have identified criminal subjects and/or criminal activity serious enough to justify continuation of the investigation.”
Machen insisted the investigation would be compromised if Rosen was informed of the warrant, and also asked the court to order Google not to notify Rosen that the company had handed over Rosen’s e-mails to the government. Rosen, according to recent reports, did not learn that the government seized his e-mail records until it was reported in the Washington Post last week.
The new details indicate that the government wanted the option to search Rosen’s e-mails repeatedly if the F.B.I. found further evidence implicating the reporter in what prosecutors argued was a conspiracy to commit espionage.
According to recently unsealed documents in the case, the Obama Justice Department sought an extensive amount of information from Rosen’s e-mail account. In addition to Rosen’s correspondence with Kim, the government wanted to know about Rosen’s contacts with other government officials, including “records or information relating to the Author’s communication with any other source or potential source of the information disclosed in the Article.”(whembly:!!!)
The government, which accused Rosen of being an “aider, abettor, and/or co-conspirator” in the Kim case, cast a wide net in its search of Rosen’s e-mail. Among other things, the search warrant requested access to:
—“Records or information related to Stephen Kim’s or the Author’s knowledge of laws, regulations, rules and/or procedures prohibiting the unauthorized disclosure of national defense or classified information.”
—“Any classified document, image, record, or information, and any communications concerning such documents, images, records, or information.”
—“Any document, image, record, or information concerning the national defense, including but not limited to documents, maps, plans, diagrams, guides, manuals, and other Department of Defense, U.S. military, and/or weapons material, as well as sources and methods of intelligence gathering, and any communications concerning such documents, images, records, or information.”
—“Records or information related to the state of mind of any individuals seeking the disclosure or receipt of classified, intelligence and/or national defense information.”
In addition, the Justice Department searched the account for any Internet services Rosen may have accessed and records of “data transfer volume,” suggesting the government was looking for evidence that Rosen downloaded large quantities of potentially classified information.
The new documents show that two judges separately declared that the Justice Department was required to notify Rosen of the search warrant, even if the notification came after a delay. Otherwise: “The subscriber therefore will never know, by being provided a copy of the warrant, for example, that the government secured a warrant and searched the contents of her e-mail account,” Judge John M. Facciola wrote in an opinion rejecting the Obama Administration’s argument.
Machen appealed that decision, and in September, 2010, Royce C. Lamberth, the chief judge in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia, granted Machen’s request to overturn the order of the two judges.
Rosen was not indicted in the case. Kim was indicted for making unauthorized disclosures of national defense information and for making false statements to F.B.I. agents about his contacts with Rosen.
Yesterday, hours after President Obama said, in a speech at National Defense University, that he had asked Attorney General Eric Holder to review the Justice Department’s policies concerning investigations of the media, NBC News reported that the warrant to search Rosen’s e-mail account was personally approved by Holder.
Stolen from my twitter feed:
Do you see what's going on there? Not only do they want to see which of Obama's people are disloyal in the actual case, they also want to keep secretly reading a private citizen's email for years in order to find other sources of leaks in other matters.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 14:33:53
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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So they wanted the warrant kept quiet so they could go on a fishing expedition?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 14:48:58
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Fixture of Dakka
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whembly wrote:
And yet... Holdner is tasked to review... himself?
o.O
I must be off the reservation... but, isn't that a conflict of interest there?
Don't worry. I have every confidence Holder will be asking himself some very searching questions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 16:58:13
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Are you saying that Holder will be probing himself?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 17:33:10
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Fixture of Dakka
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I know there are many people who say he can go probe himself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/25 17:41:36
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Maybe he got a wee bit confused when he heard others say "I'd tap that" and that's why he has to ask himself some searching questions
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/26 14:52:08
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/28 02:23:58
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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d-usa wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/25/sources-fox-news-knew-of-phone-records-subpoena-three-years-ago
Erm... not quite:
News Corp. Says It Was Not Told of Subpoena for Reporter’s Phone Records
News Corporation said on Sunday that it had no record of being notified by the Justice Department nearly three years ago of a subpoena for the telephone records of a reporter at its Fox News cable channel.
The company’s chief legal counsel at the time also said that he had never seen material from the government related to the subpoena.
The Justice Department has signaled that it notified News Corporation on Aug. 27, 2010, that it had seized the phone records of a Fox News reporter — who turned out to be the Washington correspondent James Rosen — after one of his articles had included details of a secret United States report on North Korea.
The seizure was part of the department’s case against Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, a State Department contractor investigated in connection with the North Korea leak. Mr. Kim has pleaded not guilty to leaking information and is awaiting trial. Fox News has denied that it knew about the subpoena, while Justice Department officials have said they sent notification 90 days after obtaining the records.
A law enforcement official said on Sunday that in the investigation that led to the indictment of Mr. Kim, “the government issued subpoenas for toll records for five phone numbers associated with the media.” This person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, added, “Consistent with Department of Justice policies and procedures, the government provided notification of those subpoenas nearly three years ago by certified mail, facsimile and e-mail.”
A Fox News executive said the channel had never heard of the Justice Department investigation and had no knowledge of New Corporation ever being notified. A News Corporation spokesman said Sunday that the company was looking into the matter of notification. “While we don’t take issue with the D.O.J.’s account that they sent a notice to News Corp., we do not have a record of ever having received it,” Nathaniel Brown, the spokesman, said.
Last week, The Washington Post obtained an affidavit that described Mr. Rosen (without naming him) as “at the very least, either as an aider, abettor and/or co-conspirator.” The investigation relates to a 2009 article Mr. Rosen published on FoxNews.com that quoted a source describing missile activity in North Korea.
In e-mail to employees on Thursday, Roger Ailes, chairman and chief executive of Fox News, rejected the validity of the investigation. “We will not allow a climate of press intimidation, unseen since the McCarthy era, to frighten any of us away from the truth,” Mr. Ailes said.
Lawrence A. Jacobs, who was News Corporation’s chief legal officer until he left in June 2011, said he never saw a notification about the phone records.
“I would have remembered getting a fax from the Justice Department,” Mr. Jacobs said in an interview Sunday. “These are not the kinds of things that happen every day.”
He added, “The first thing I would’ve done would be to call Roger Ailes.”
News Corporation said it had conducted a thorough search of its legal records, including, Mr. Jacobs said, a scan of his e-mails and other relevant materials, and has found nothing related to the investigation. “The inference that I sat on this and didn’t share it with Roger couldn’t be further from the truth,” Mr. Jacobs said.
The investigation into Mr. Rosen’s phone records and personal e-mail became public only after The Associated Press said two weeks ago that the government had subpoenaed telephone records in a different leak investigation.
Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, did not comment specifically on the Fox News investigation, but said last week at a news briefing that President Obama “believes, I think, as all of his predecessors believed, that it is imperative that leaks that can jeopardize the lives of American men and women serving overseas should not be tolerated.”
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/28 15:28:30
Subject: Re:Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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So DOJ Went Judge Shopping to Three Different Judges Armed With Criminal Warrants for James Rosen...
They went Judge shopping...
The Obama Administration fought to keep a search warrant for James Rosen’s private e-mail account secret, arguing to a federal judge that the government might need to monitor the account for a lengthy period of time.
The new details are revealed in a court filing detailing a back and forth between the Justice Department and the federal judges who oversaw the request to search a Gmail account belonging to Rosen, a reporter for Fox News. A 2009 article Rosen had written about North Korea sparked an investigation; Ronald C. Machen, Jr., the U.S. Attorney who is prosecuting Stephen Jin-Woo Kim, a former State Department adviser who allegedly leaked classified information to Rosen, insisted that the reporter should not be notified of the search and seizure of his e-mails, even after a lengthy delay.
E-mails, Machen wrote, “are commonly used by subjects or targets of the criminal investigation at issue, and the e-mail evidence derived from those compelled disclosures frequently forms the core of the Government’s evidence supporting criminal charges.”
He argued that disclosure of the search warrant would preclude the government from monitoring the account, should such a step become necessary in the investigation. Machen added that “some investigations are continued for many years because, while the evidence is not yet sufficient to bring charges, it is sufficient to have identified criminal subjects and/or criminal activity serious enough to justify continuation of the investigation.”
Machen insisted the investigation would be compromised if Rosen was informed of the warrant, and also asked the court to order Google not to notify Rosen that the company had handed over Rosen’s e-mails to the government. Rosen, according to recent reports, did not learn that the government seized his e-mail records until it was reported in the Washington Post last week.
The new details indicate that the government wanted the option to search Rosen’s e-mails repeatedly if the F.B.I. found further evidence implicating the reporter in what prosecutors argued was a conspiracy to commit espionage.
According to recently unsealed documents in the case, the Obama Justice Department sought an extensive amount of information from Rosen’s e-mail account. In addition to Rosen’s correspondence with Kim, the government wanted to know about Rosen’s contacts with other government officials, including “records or information relating to the Author’s communication with any other source or potential source of the information disclosed in the Article.”
The government, which accused Rosen of being an “aider, abettor, and/or co-conspirator” in the Kim case, cast a wide net in its search of Rosen’s e-mail. Among other things, the search warrant requested access to:
—“Records or information related to Stephen Kim’s or the Author’s knowledge of laws, regulations, rules and/or procedures prohibiting the unauthorized disclosure of national defense or classified information.”
—“Any classified document, image, record, or information, and any communications concerning such documents, images, records, or information.”
—“Any document, image, record, or information concerning the national defense, including but not limited to documents, maps, plans, diagrams, guides, manuals, and other Department of Defense, U.S. military, and/or weapons material, as well as sources and methods of intelligence gathering, and any communications concerning such documents, images, records, or information.”
—“Records or information related to the state of mind of any individuals seeking the disclosure or receipt of classified, intelligence and/or national defense information.”
In addition, the Justice Department searched the account for any Internet services Rosen may have accessed and records of “data transfer volume,” suggesting the government was looking for evidence that Rosen downloaded large quantities of potentially classified information.
The new documents show that two judges separately declared that the Justice Department was required to notify Rosen of the search warrant, even if the notification came after a delay. Otherwise: “The subscriber therefore will never know, by being provided a copy of the warrant, for example, that the government secured a warrant and searched the contents of her e-mail account,” Judge John M. Facciola wrote in an opinion rejecting the Obama Administration’s argument.
Machen appealed that decision, and in September, 2010, Royce C. Lamberth, the chief judge in the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia, granted Machen’s request to overturn the order of the two judges.
Rosen was not indicted in the case. Kim was indicted for making unauthorized disclosures of national defense information and for making false statements to F.B.I. agents about his contacts with Rosen.
Yesterday, hours after President Obama said, in a speech at National Defense University, that he had asked Attorney General Eric Holder to review the Justice Department’s policies concerning investigations of the media, NBC News reported that the warrant to search Rosen’s e-mail account was personally approved by Holder.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/28 15:33:32
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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So having two judges tell them it was a no-no didn't make them rethink their actions?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/28 15:35:37
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:So having two judges tell them it was a no-no didn't make them rethink their actions?
That's just a stupid question.
How many times have 5 supreme court justices told politicians "nope" but they keep on passing the same laws over and over
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/05/28 15:37:51
Subject: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Fair point
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