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@ Dael,

Yes I have, you just haven't taken it.

As to UKIPs association with the BNP I do accept that some ex-members and possibly present members have gotten into the party as it is an underfunded party punching abouve its weight. When they get the funding to vet candidates I think some will get expelled.

We are closing down large power stations to comply with the UKs commitment EU policies. We are facing higher energy bills to suit EU policies. We are a net contributer even with our rebate. We struggle to kick out terrorists because of the EU court system (manned by Judges who in some instances have very little experience of sitting in judgement within their own countries). Their tax on financial transactions is going to hurt London.

The Euro has bankrupted the southern countries and is drawing the zone into a depression because the core countries of the euro are not willing to let countries breakawsy, devalue and export to recover. This is dragging us down with them.

Europe are responsible for contributing to a lot of our ills.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Medium of Death wrote:
I think most of those quotes are quite funny to be fair. It's just all hot air.

I mean it does give fuel to the "English hate us" crowd, but it's not really a fair picture. I think the Independence polls will speak for themselves, the fact that Salmond and his nippy faced comrade Sturgeon have secured 16 year olds the right to vote on it is absolutely ridiculous and shows that their clutching at straws.

I will be extremely unhappy if we get Independence and I'm not alone in that.

I think we will all suffer if Scotland does go it alone. PLease stay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:

SImilarly the grooming thing. A large proportion of the convictions are from a small proportion of the UKs popoluation. So if you stand the population in line and want to find the grooming rings (in the adscence of evidence) unfortunatley you best use of resources to find the most is to look at that small proportion of the population. Sad but true ( for the grooming case they should flood everywhere to stamp it out completely -

The Ceop study looked at the 2,379 potential offenders, reported to Ceop for grooming since 2008. The vast majority were men and most were aged 18 to 24.

Of the 940 suspects who were fully identified, 26 per cent were Asian, 38 per cent were white and 32 per cent were recorded as unknown. Some 3 per cent were black and less than 1 per cent were Chinese.

Ceop also identified 230 cases where suspects were working together in groups ranging from two to more than eight people. Of those gangs, 41 were Asian, 36 were white and 137 were of unknown ethnic origin.

As for those being targeted by these gangs, some 61 per cent of the 2,083 victims were white, while 2.6 per cent were Asian, 1.3 per cent were black and 33 per cent were of unknown ethnic origin.

http://www.channel4.com/news/ceop-warns-against-focus-on-race-after-major-grooming-study

figures appear to indicate that there's not really all that much difference when it comes to the numbers.

who cares if a few banksters get away with their loot)

err.. okay.

But the Asian offenders (244ish ) is from the Asian decended population of the country is significantly less than the white population. So the offending rate per 1000 people in the Asian population is going to be higher. In the gangs statistics the suspected Asian Gangs is higher than the white gangs and from a smaller population again. So, again - unfortunately, that's where you need to put the largest proporation of the anti-grooming resources to effectively combat it.

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,

Yes I have, you just haven't taken it.

No you don't understand. How is Farage saying "I have a report here that states..." in any way useful to me, it doesn't give me the title, the author or the year of publication. Therefore I have no access to it. Saying I saw someone say something on tv is not a valid source.

As to UKIPs association with the BNP I do accept that some ex-members and possibly present members have gotten into the party as it is an underfunded party punching abouve its weight. When they get the funding to vet candidates I think some will get expelled.

They get 2 million a year from Farage alone, well the EU taxpayer anyway.

We are closing down large power stations to comply with the UKs commitment EU policies. We are facing higher energy bills to suit EU policies. We are a net contributer even with our rebate. We struggle to kick out terrorists because of the EU court system (manned by Judges who in some instances have very little experience of sitting in judgement within their own countries). Their tax on financial transactions is going to hurt London.

Do you think the only emissions targets we have are from the EU?

Europe are responsible for contributing to a lot of our ills.

Like what exactly?

 Jasper wrote:
We struggle to kick out terrorists because of the EU court system

The European court of human rights has nothing to do with the EU. Different organisations. A mistake Farage makes time and again too.

And most of the cases people site are nothing to do with the ECHR and everything to do with our courts upholding the law of the land and stopping Theresa May and her rather less than balanced views. See Gary McKinnon vs the case of Haroon Aswat.

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,

Yes I have, you just haven't taken it.

No you don't understand. How is Farage saying "I have a report here that states..." in any way useful to me, it doesn't give me the title, the author or the year of publication. Therefore I have no access to it. Besides, the report just quoted shows what you were claiming to be false.

As to UKIPs association with the BNP I do accept that some ex-members and possibly present members have gotten into the party as it is an underfunded party punching abouve its weight. When they get the funding to vet candidates I think some will get expelled.

They get 2 million a year from Farage alone, well the EU taxpayer anyway.

We are closing down large power stations to comply with the UKs commitment EU policies. We are facing higher energy bills to suit EU policies. We are a net contributer even with our rebate. We struggle to kick out terrorists because of the EU court system (manned by Judges who in some instances have very little experience of sitting in judgement within their own countries). Their tax on financial transactions is going to hurt London.

Do you think the only emissions targets we have are from the EU?

Europe are responsible for contributing to a lot of our ills.

Like what exactly?

Somebody needs to teach me about the multi-quote thing.
The report is form the past month, Mr Farage refers to it by name, to be honest you could probably google it (other search engines are available).
What I was claiming is that there is a crime wave in London being carried out by gangs from a specific european country which Mr Farage has visited. You need to watch the question time if you want to verify the final bit of my claim.

I don't understand why UKIP is contributing £2m to the BMP as per your claim (you need to back this one up )

The only legally binding targets are from the EU.

I've mentioned a few ills - Euro driven economic depression, terror suspects at large, power issues, to name but a few, not to forget the Big Euro gravey train with accounts that have not been signed off for, is it, 15 or so years now.

 Jasper wrote:

What it means is that if you take all the bankers and politicians and line them up, if you want to look for financial miss management you would focus your efforts on the white looking chaps from the UK.

And BAM! you have your reason racial profileing is bad. You immediately start missing other possiblitys of who the perpirtator could be.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
We struggle to kick out terrorists because of the EU court system

The European court of human rights has nothing to do with the EU. Different organisations. A mistake Farage makes time and again too.

And most of the cases people site are nothing to do with the ECHR and everything to do with our courts upholding the law of the land and stopping Theresa May and her rather less than balanced views. See Gary McKinnon vs the case of Haroon Aswat.

I gather that if we leave the EU we leave the ECHR too. Sound very similar even tough they are different organisations.
The British courts are judging, quite frequently, on European laws which have been passed into British law which Britain honours, whilse some of our neighbours do not. I do agree that the British courts/system are not helping the situation. The french system continually persue their terrorists to get them deported and the Bristish system takes the heat off during appeals.

Garry McKinnon is a different kettle of fish.

 Jasper wrote:

Surely the fact that a large proporation the grooming gangs are decendant from a particular country is a criminal link to ethnicity ie their race.
I don't understand the White City comment its a bit odd

No, just... No... As I said. Social reasons. The treatment of women in some tribal areas. Anyway, most of these people were born in the UK.

 Jasper wrote:

So what you are saying about the border is that if we controlled it very well owe could reduce organised crime in the UK. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Closed. Closed our borders I said. I'm realy starting to think you have no idea what you are talking about. Closing our borders as in letting no one at all in. Organised crime will get in anyway. Always has. Always will. Nothing to do with imigration. Where it comes from may, but as long as there is a market for what they do it will get in.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

What it means is that if you take all the bankers and politicians and line them up, if you want to look for financial miss management you would focus your efforts on the white looking chaps from the UK.

And BAM! you have your reason racial profileing is bad. You immediately start missing other possiblitys of who the perpirtator could be.

Yes I agree you miss some but you get the majority. If you have the resources then you get them all. But we never have enough resources.

Note that I said focus your efforts which means you keep an eye on everything and a keen eye on the white UK banksters. That way you try to catch any change in the trends.

 Jasper wrote:

I gather that if we leave the EU we leave the ECHR too. Sound very similar even tough they are different organisations.
The British courts are judging, quite frequently, on European laws which have been passed into British law which Britain honours, whilse some of our neighbours do not. I do agree that the British courts/system are not helping the situation. The french system continually persue their terrorists to get them deported and the Bristish system takes the heat off during appeals.

Garry McKinnon is a different kettle of fish.

Your showing time and again you know nothing of what you are talking about. "Sound very similar even tough they are different organisations."

What you are saying is we should be able to throw who we want out of the country?

Garry McKinnon is not a diffrent kettle of fish at all. Both were wanted by the US, both were fighting it on mental health grounds. Please do tell me how they are diffrent?

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

Surely the fact that a large proporation the grooming gangs are decendant from a particular country is a criminal link to ethnicity ie their race.
I don't understand the White City comment its a bit odd

No, just... No... As I said. Social reasons. The treatment of women in some tribal areas. Anyway, most of these people were born in the UK.

 Jasper wrote:

So what you are saying about the border is that if we controlled it very well owe could reduce organised crime in the UK. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Closed. Closed our borders I said. I'm realy starting to think you have no idea what you are talking about. Closing our borders as in letting no one at all in. Organised crime will get in anyway. Always has. Always will. Nothing to do with imigration. Where it comes from may, but as long as there is a market for what they do it will get in.

TIghtly controlled would cut it down though.
The gang problem in London is not immigrants I was under the impression it was crime tourists.

 Jasper wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

What it means is that if you take all the bankers and politicians and line them up, if you want to look for financial miss management you would focus your efforts on the white looking chaps from the UK.

And BAM! you have your reason racial profileing is bad. You immediately start missing other possiblitys of who the perpirtator could be.

Yes I agree you miss some but you get the majority. If you have the resources then you get them all. But we never have enough resources.

Note that I said focus your efforts which means you keep an eye on everything and a keen eye on the white UK banksters. That way you try to catch any change in the trends.

Just... Wow... You don't get it at all do you. It brings down the effectiveness.

Ok. Lets try another approch. Why should all bankers be closely watched even if they have done nothing wrong? How about they keep a close eye on all UKIP supporters as some have proven links to far right organisations?

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

I gather that if we leave the EU we leave the ECHR too. Sound very similar even tough they are different organisations.
The British courts are judging, quite frequently, on European laws which have been passed into British law which Britain honours, whilse some of our neighbours do not. I do agree that the British courts/system are not helping the situation. The french system continually persue their terrorists to get them deported and the Bristish system takes the heat off during appeals.

Garry McKinnon is a different kettle of fish.

Your showing time and again you know nothing of what you are talking about. "Sound very similar even tough they are different organisations."

What you are saying is we should be able to throw who we want out of the country?

Garry McKinnon is not a diffrent kettle of fish at all. Both were wanted by the US, both were fighting it on mental health grounds. Please do tell me how they are diffrent?

If people are convicted or are due to stand trial in a different country then unless there is reason not to then they should be sent to stand trial.

Gary McKinnon is wanted by the US for hacking due to his curiosity.
Mr Hanza is wanted by Jordan where he has been convicted of organising terrorism (don't know the specific offence).
Gary is not a danger to the British population,
Mr Hanza possibly is a danger to the British Popultation.

That's quite a difference.

 Jasper wrote:

TIghtly controlled would cut it down though.
The gang problem in London is not immigrants I was under the impression it was crime tourists.

Your going round in circles now... Or are UKIP now suggesting we control the number of tourists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

Gary McKinnon is wanted by the US for hacking due to his curiosity.
Mr Hanza is wanted by Jordan where he has been convicted of organising terrorism (don't know the specific offence).
Gary is not a danger to the British population,
Mr Hanza possibly is a danger to the British Popultation.

That's quite a difference.

Seriously, I can't work out if your that stupid, or just lazy... Realy, go back and read what I put. Realy. I didn't bring up Abu HaMza. You did. Also, if you want to bring in arguments like that the US don't touture people. The ruling of the UK court was that those convictions were meaningless because it was on the basis of evidence obtaind under touture.

Gary McKinnon says it was curiosity. The US says otherwise. And since when is curiosity a defence?

If Abu Hamza is a threat to the UK why has he not been charged with anything here?

 Jasper wrote:
@ Dael,
There is plenty of legislation at the moment which specifies race which is silly unfair.

Positive descrimination springs to mind.

We don't have that in the UK.

English Student being charge to study at Scottish universities.

English isn't a race.

The tax spend on the popultion being skewed towards scotland and wales; originally intended to bring the uk into a level playing field but now allowing free prescriptions and so on to be funded.

Scotland and Wales aren't races.

The only people he appear to dislike are the BNP, hence their exclusion from UKIP - this is probably illegal but go on UKIP. But ex BNP are free to joing other parties.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

What it means is that if you take all the bankers and politicians and line them up, if you want to look for financial miss management you would focus your efforts on the white looking chaps from the UK.

And BAM! you have your reason racial profileing is bad. You immediately start missing other possiblitys of who the perpirtator could be.

Yes I agree you miss some but you get the majority. If you have the resources then you get them all. But we never have enough resources.

Note that I said focus your efforts which means you keep an eye on everything and a keen eye on the white UK banksters. That way you try to catch any change in the trends.

Just... Wow... You don't get it at all do you. It brings down the effectiveness.

Ok. Lets try another approch. Why should all bankers be closely watched even if they have done nothing wrong? How about they keep a close eye on all UKIP supporters as some have proven links to far right organisations?

If some one hadn't watched MPs would we have found out they were fiddling expenses?
Ditto - Bankers - Libor Rates?
Ditto - Oil Traders - Oil Price FIxing.

There are financial institutions in place to keep an eye on bankers if they don't want that then they should be bankers.

If resources are available it would be prudent to keep an eye on all Far right and far left supporters of politican parties if they can be linked to exteremism

 Jasper wrote:

The report is form the past month, Mr Farage refers to it by name, to be honest you could probably google it (other search engines are available).
What I was claiming is that there is a crime wave in London being carried out by gangs from a specific european country which Mr Farage has visited. You need to watch the question time if you want to verify the final bit of my claim.

I asked for a source on your claim of paedophiles being mostly asian. As that is false.

I don't understand why UKIP is contributing £2m to the BMP as per your claim (you need to back this one up )

No, Farage pays that to UKIP, money he takes as expenses from the taxpayer.

The only legally binding targets are from the EU.

I take it you've never heard of the Kyoto Protocol?

I've mentioned a few ills -
Euro driven economic depression

Which stems from Britain and the US

terror suspects at large,

That has very little to do with the EU and far more to do with the Covenant of Security.

power issues,

You've lost me

not to forget the Big Euro gravey train with accounts that have not been signed off for, is it, 15 or so years now.

The gravy train that UKIP are more than happy to squeeze every last pound they can from?

Shall we look at what the EU does for us?
Highly subsidised food.
Working time directive.
Equal pay.
Consumer protection law.
Fundamental human rights.

 Jasper wrote:

If some one hadn't watched MPs would we have found out they were fiddling expenses?
Ditto - Bankers - Libor Rates?
Ditto - Oil Traders - Oil Price FIxing.

There are financial institutions in place to keep an eye on bankers if they don't want that then they should be bankers.

If resources are available it would be prudent to keep an eye on all Far right and far left supporters of politican parties if they can be linked to exteremism

I'm sorry, I give up. I can't keep arguing with this kind of stupid. The FCA is not "to keep an eye on bankers". It is to regulate financial services. They don't keep an eye on anyone. Realy, get educated. You might learn a little about the world.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

TIghtly controlled would cut it down though.
The gang problem in London is not immigrants I was under the impression it was crime tourists.

Your going round in circles now... Or are UKIP now suggesting we control the number of tourists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

Gary McKinnon is wanted by the US for hacking due to his curiosity.
Mr Hanza is wanted by Jordan where he has been convicted of organising terrorism (don't know the specific offence).
Gary is not a danger to the British population,
Mr Hanza possibly is a danger to the British Popultation.

That's quite a difference.

Seriously, I can't work out if your that stupid, or just lazy... Realy, go back and read what I put. Realy. I didn't bring up Abu HaMza. You did. Also, if you want to bring in arguments like that the US don't touture people. The ruling of the UK court was that those convictions were meaningless because it was on the basis of evidence obtaind under touture.

Gary McKinnon says it was curiosity. The US says otherwise. And since when is curiosity a defence?

If Abu Hamza is a threat to the UK why has he not been charged with anything here?

If you can find some Amnesty reports from the late 90s the only contries which don't use torture and Norway and Switzerland and a handful of others.

A crime tourist is a figure of speech for some one coming here to comit petty crimes knowing that they will not be imprisoned and it is unlikely the british system will spare the resources to go after them once they return home. Controlling the borders will reduce this form of crime.

The discussion about the ills of the EU raised our inability to deport people due to the ECHR, specifically terror associated criminals. Remeber MR Hanza has been convicted in Jordan. I thought you brought up Mr McK as asked for the differences.
Curiosity is a defence if you have a diagnosed condition which would make you more curios than the average bear, so to speak.
If MR Hanza is not a threat why has he been under house arrest or in jail, or had extradition proceeding against him.

The butchering and splicing together of the terms 'race', 'ethnicity', and 'nationality'' in this thread make me sad.

It's like watching the blind debating with the blind.

 Jasper wrote:
I thought you brought up Mr McK as asked for the differences.
Curiosity is a defence if you have a diagnosed condition which would make you more curios than the average bear, so to speak.
If MR Hanza is not a threat why has he been under house arrest or in jail, or had extradition proceeding against him.

Seriously, just go back and read the people I quoted. And Abu HaMza has not been under house arrest his whole time in the UK. Realy... I don't know why I bother.

On a lighter note

UKIP's biggest donor (Demetri Marchessini) wrote a book "Women in Trousers: a Rear View", in which he says: "...by wearing [trousers] [women] are deliberately making themselves unattractive and are rushing like lemmings over a sartorial cliff."

To compile this book he stalked the streets of London with a photographer taking photos of women's arses and then published the most unflattering ones in his book.

For a lengthier view of the subject have a look at a preview here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Trousers-Demetri-Marchessini/dp/0954510704

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

The report is form the past month, Mr Farage refers to it by name, to be honest you could probably google it (other search engines are available).
What I was claiming is that there is a crime wave in London being carried out by gangs from a specific european country which Mr Farage has visited. You need to watch the question time if you want to verify the final bit of my claim.

I asked for a source on your claim of paedophiles being mostly asian. As that is false.

I don't understand why UKIP is contributing £2m to the BMP as per your claim (you need to back this one up )

No, Farage pays that to UKIP, money he takes as expenses from the taxpayer.

The only legally binding targets are from the EU.

I take it you've never heard of the Kyoto Protocol?

I've mentioned a few ills -
Euro driven economic depression

Which stems from Britain and the US

terror suspects at large,

That has very little to do with the EU and far more to do with the Covenant of Security.

power issues,

You've lost me

not to forget the Big Euro gravey train with accounts that have not been signed off for, is it, 15 or so years now.

The gravy train that UKIP are more than happy to squeeze every last pound they can from?

Shall we look at what the EU does for us?
Highly subsidised food.
Working time directive.
Equal pay.
Consumer protection law.
Fundamental human rights.

I have never claimed anything about Paedophiles. My claim was about grooming gangs and statistics ahve been posted which back this up.

Right I'm with you about the expenses thing. I'll look into that one.

Kyoto is not legally binding becase of refusals to sign up to it.

Britian and the US did not force the southern countries of europe to over borrow based on a low interest rate which helped the northern countries in the euro export. The western ecomony is a real mess. Placing everything on the US subprime is misplaced.

Power issues relate to us shutting coal stations (as I posted) and paying though the nose for green energy to meet the EU emission targets.

Subsidised food is via the EU pot of money to which we are a net contributer.
Working time directive makes us less competitive and forces some organisations into unrealistic working. But having sensible limits to prevent tiredness is important but could easily be done through the UK parliment - just like minium wage.
Equal pay is oart of anti-discrimination legislation.
Consumer protection act is a UK act of parliament
The UK signed the univeral declaration of Human Rights before the creation of the EU; which has the respect of other people's rights a requirement for you to enjoy your rights and more balanced. The UK has seperate human rights legislation to the EU.

@Steve Stevenson,
I didn't mention the FSA but they do keep an eye on banks in general. Individual banks also have mechanism in place.
I'm not arguing I'm discussing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:
The butchering and splicing together of the terms 'race', 'ethnicity', and 'nationality'' in this thread make me sad.

It's like watching the blind debating with the blind.

Yep I agree; and possibly guitly of a bit of it - sorry. The multi-quoting has got everything spinning. I'm in a metaphorical pub, under siege but without the pints to enjoy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Jasper wrote:
I thought you brought up Mr McK as asked for the differences.
Curiosity is a defence if you have a diagnosed condition which would make you more curios than the average bear, so to speak.
If MR Hanza is not a threat why has he been under house arrest or in jail, or had extradition proceeding against him.

Seriously, just go back and read the people I quoted. And Abu HaMza has not been under house arrest his whole time in the UK. Realy... I don't know why I bother.

No he hasn't been under house arrest the whole time in the UK.
But when asked what a European ill afflicted on the UK was I replied
not being able to extradite terror suspects because of the ECHR.

He has not been charge with anything in the UK but convicetd in abscence and as the courts do not recognise the legitimacy of the conviction the T. May has been seeking assurances that the re-trial, in Jordan, will be fair. But the EU court is blocking this on appeal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
On a lighter note

UKIP's biggest donor (Demetri Marchessini) wrote a book "Women in Trousers: a Rear View", in which he says: "...by wearing [trousers] [women] are deliberately making themselves unattractive and are rushing like lemmings over a sartorial cliff."

To compile this book he stalked the streets of London with a photographer taking photos of women's arses and then published the most unflattering ones in his book.

For a lengthier view of the subject have a look at a preview here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Women-Trousers-Demetri-Marchessini/dp/0954510704

They (UKIP) do like to torpedo themselves.

Actually the UK's Equal Pay Act predates its membership of the EU and was not dependent on European human rights directives.

Similarly, the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and is bound by that independent of the EU.

 Jasper wrote:

Power issues relate to us shutting coal stations (as I posted) and paying though the nose for green energy to meet the EU emission targets.

It is in our interests to not raise the global temperature by 2 degrees you know. Or are you one of these climate change deniers?

Subsidised food is via the EU pot of money to which we are a net contributer.

And you think the government will start paying these subsidies to farmers if we leave?

Working time directive makes us less competitive and forces some organisations into unrealistic working. But having sensible limits to prevent tiredness is important but could easily be done through the UK parliment - just like minium wage.

The working time directive makes us uncompetitive? How and compared to who? Not other European countries certainly. Now, its possible the maternity pay and sick pay bits do, but they provide so much social benefit that it is worth it.

Consumer protection act is a UK act of parliament

Actually the EU consumer rights directive is very important for consumer rights.

The UK signed the univeral declaration of Human Rights before the creation of the EU; which has the respect of other people's rights a requirement for you to enjoy your rights and more balanced. The UK has seperate human rights legislation to the EU.

Here you have shown you haven't a clue. The UK has the Human Rights Act 1998, which details how the ECHR interacts with English law. The Universal Declaration is not legally binding, the ECHR very much is.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually the UK's Equal Pay Act predates its membership of the EU and was not dependent on European human rights directives.

Similarly, the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and is bound by that independent of the EU.

I didn't realise the Equal Pay Act pre-dated the EU. It didn't work very well!

The The Universal Declaration of Humand Rights is an awesome read. Unfortunately is is not law only a declaration. I think the UK would have done better just to write it into law a few years after they signed it, or a legalaly worded version of it.

 Jasper wrote:

@Steve Stevenson,
I didn't mention the FSA but they do keep an eye on banks in general. Individual banks also have mechanism in place.

Who are you talking about that "keeps an eye on the banks" then? And as I said the FCS dose not keep an eye on the banks. (The FSA dose not exist any more).

And you still didn't go back and read what I said... I didn't bring up Abu Hamza, you did.

You clearly don't know anything about the subjects you are talking about.

 Jasper wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually the UK's Equal Pay Act predates its membership of the EU and was not dependent on European human rights directives.

Similarly, the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and is bound by that independent of the EU.

I didn't realise the Equal Pay Act pre-dated the EU. It didn't work very well!

The The Universal Declaration of Humand Rights is an awesome read. Unfortunately is is not law only a declaration. I think the UK would have done better just to write it into law a few years after they signed it, or a legalaly worded version of it.

What you mean something like this?

 Bangbangboom wrote:
A lot of people in my part of the country feel he is some sort of messiah. These are the sort of people willing to stand up and claim "they took our jobs"

Personal my understanding of how leaving Europe will effect the UK and indeed the rest of Europe is not developed enough for me to form any opinion other than "better the devil you know"

UKIP are basically a one policy party though and anyone that wishes to be represented by a one policy party is a fool. That said I welcome the departure from the three party two party system, I just wish our local and indeed national media would give more time to some smaller parties and independent representatives that don't rely on sensationalist sound bites

1. Who or what is he?
2. If you're going to hide out, hiding out in a bar is not bad.
3. Real menz don't hide, unless its from da wimminz.

 Jasper wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually the UK's Equal Pay Act predates its membership of the EU and was not dependent on European human rights directives.

Similarly, the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and is bound by that independent of the EU.

I didn't realise the Equal Pay Act pre-dated the EU. It didn't work very well!

The The Universal Declaration of Humand Rights is an awesome read. Unfortunately is is not law only a declaration. I think the UK would have done better just to write it into law a few years after they signed it, or a legalaly worded version of it.

Even places like Sweden still have a pay differential between men and women. I suspect there is a bias built in society by biology -- men never have to take time out from careers for childbirth, etc. This could be alleviated by paying women for housework and child-rearing duties. That day probably will never arrive.

The UK has gradually moved to implement human rights legislation that supports the UDHR. It's difficult for a large nation and society to change. Signing the Declaration was a statement of intent, at least.

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

Power issues relate to us shutting coal stations (as I posted) and paying though the nose for green energy to meet the EU emission targets.

It is in our interests to not raise the global temperature by 2 degrees you know. Or are you one of these climate change deniers?

Subsidised food is via the EU pot of money to which we are a net contributer.

And you think the government will start paying these subsidies to farmers if we leave?

Working time directive makes us less competitive and forces some organisations into unrealistic working. But having sensible limits to prevent tiredness is important but could easily be done through the UK parliment - just like minium wage.

The working time directive makes us uncompetitive? How and compared to who? Not other European countries certainly. Now, its possible the maternity pay and sick pay bits do, but they provide so much social benefit that it is worth it.

Consumer protection act is a UK act of parliament

Actually the EU consumer rights directive is very important for consumer rights.

The UK signed the univeral declaration of Human Rights before the creation of the EU; which has the respect of other people's rights a requirement for you to enjoy your rights and more balanced. The UK has seperate human rights legislation to the EU.

Here you have shown you haven't a clue. The UK has the Human Rights Act 1998, which details how the ECHR interacts with English law. The Universal Declaration is not legally binding, the ECHR very much is.

The world is still warming up from an ice age. We still have ice at the poles and still technically in an ice age. The global warming issue is are we accelerating it and the world now has a non-nomadic population which can not move to suit areas of the earth which become more difficult to inhabit (Just like Mr Farage's Pub) due to political boundaries.. There is compelling evidence on both sides. It is in the UKs interest to be at the fore front of renewable power technologies but it has to balance within the so-called energy trilema. Low Carbon VS Security Vs Cost. Shutting down at the moment sacficices the security and the cost in favour of the low carbon legally binding targets. Having battled to keep a few large UK power stations working during cold spells when the grid has been at breaking point it is very frustrating to have possible blacks outs almost forced up on us by poor energy policy.

You said we got subsided food from membership of the EU, we contribute more than we get in subsidies. If taxes are lowered (okay wishful thinking) then we have the money in our pockets to pay the farmers a fair wage. UK farming is underated, we have some awesome farmers and growers (greenhouses) out there.

The working time directive makes us less competitive with any advanced economy outside of the EU which does not have such restrictions (Aus, NZ, Canada, USA, to name but a few). Arguable having one parent at home would provide better social benefits than some maternity and sickness benefits (arg different topic) but both of these are not tied into EU only legislation - they would be law if we exited until the UK parliment decided otherwise.

I've never had to bash a shop over the head with the EU Consumer rights directive. The consumer rights are okay with me. To be honest I don't really know the difference. Presumably both say that if you buy a pint in a pub you are allowed to drink it before being bungled out by the police in front of an organised mob.

I agree that the Universal is not legally binding, it would be better if it was.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dæl wrote:

 Jasper wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Actually the UK's Equal Pay Act predates its membership of the EU and was not dependent on European human rights directives.

Similarly, the UK is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and is bound by that independent of the EU.

I didn't realise the Equal Pay Act pre-dated the EU. It didn't work very well!

The The Universal Declaration of Humand Rights is an awesome read. Unfortunately is is not law only a declaration. I think the UK would have done better just to write it into law a few years after they signed it, or a legalaly worded version of it.

What you mean something like this?

I don't know the exact bit and bobs of the European Convention but the universal declarations spirit of letting people get on and enjoy their rights whilst you can enjoy yours are a bit corrupted (maybe the writer was a CSM) when you can not deport suspects to trial, you can be deported on a european arrest warrant (without evidence or leave to appeal I think) and your TV can NOT (edited here) be repossed because it is your human right to watch This Morning.

But yeah something sort of like that which irons out all the sillyness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Bangbangboom wrote:
A lot of people in my part of the country feel he is some sort of messiah. These are the sort of people willing to stand up and claim "they took our jobs"

Personal my understanding of how leaving Europe will effect the UK and indeed the rest of Europe is not developed enough for me to form any opinion other than "better the devil you know"

UKIP are basically a one policy party though and anyone that wishes to be represented by a one policy party is a fool. That said I welcome the departure from the three party two party system, I just wish our local and indeed national media would give more time to some smaller parties and independent representatives that don't rely on sensationalist sound bites

1. Who or what is he?
2. If you're going to hide out, hiding out in a bar is not bad.
3. Real menz don't hide, unless its from da wimminz.

UKIP is the UK independance party. They are for getting the UK out of the European Union.
The Chap in Question is Nigel Farage who is their leader and also a member of the European Parliament. (MEPs)
UKIP have several MEPs representing the UK in europe but have no member in the UK parliament.
UKIP has just one a few local elected officials because people are protesting at the 3 main political parties being useless.

Bars are good until the landlord asks you to leave.

Real men do hide when an internet mob has turned up.

Just heard the Mr F put the phone down on a BBC interview - awesome.