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Earth would win, even with the SM Navy.

1. We have knowledge of their capabilities because of our community - Every Military in the World would come talk to us. The SM's may have scanners, but they'd have no idea who we are, or our capabilities. We'd know their weaknesses, like targeting their powercells in their backpacks, the joints in their neck, that they have two hearts, and even knowledge of what tactics they are likely to use against us.

2. They could launch surgical strikes against us, we could launch the world's arsenal of nuclear weapons at them, all 5,000 + warheads.

3. Pyskers don't work in our universe. (if they do, see reason 8)

4. We have Railgun's, EMPs, high powered lasers, cluster bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, and submarines, top secret weapons nobody knows about, advanced targeting systems. Our weaponry vastly out-diversifies theirs.

5. There is no lore out there that says that SM's are immune to bullets. Orks are a prime example of this. Send enough of anything their way and any one of them will fall.

6. We have massive numbers. The US alone has on average 3 guns per person. Russia has millions of assault rifles stockpiled, and China can make millions more. Any one of these countries could take on the SM's and deal significant damage, if not destroy them. All three, in addition to NATO and every other force the planet could muster along with rebel forces and gangs like Al-Queda merely surviving the SM onslaught means the odds are in our favor not theirs.

7. Really, our only weakness, is the weakness of humanity. Without overall unity in the world, and especially if the SM's could convince a portion of our planet to side with them we'd be in serious trouble.

8. If Pyskers exist in our universe, then so does the Emperor - possibly the reason why Tzeentch would send a Chapter of SMs back in time to destroy ancient Terra....If that is true, at this very moment in time, He walks among us. If he does, there would be no war. Instead the Emperor would have knowledge of the future, a Chapter of SM's, and a united Earth 28,000 years before his prophesied ascension. The invasion of a SM chapter now, could possibly be the best thing the for human race - and consequently why Tzeentch has chosen not to weave this fate for us...

@ Lobuka... I like the quotes, but they are still inaccurate:

A. It is likely that generals will have knowledge (or quickly gain that knowledge) that conventional or even modern warfare against SM's will not work. We adapt to the next generation of warfare, while the SM's are limited by their rigid doctrines.

B. The low velocity and kinetic energy of our small arms fire is compensated by the volume of fire we have at our disposal. In addition, the penetrating power of our weapons is amplified greatly by the materials that we make them out of. You can be sure that the best troops of every nation on earth will have modified ammunition made possible by every SM or allied target we manage to kill that is wrapped in adamantium. A tungston round makes mincemeat of even the M1 Abrams. Imagine what adamantium rounds would do.

C. Does that person even know what Anti-matter actually does? If humanity has access to Anti-matter weaponry its GG for the SM's. Period.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Earth would win, even with the SM Navy.

1. We have knowledge of their capabilities because of our community - Every Military in the World would come talk to us. The SM's may have scanners, but they'd have no idea who we are, or our capabilities. We'd know their weaknesses, like targeting their powercells in their backpacks, the joints in their neck, that they have two hearts, and even knowledge of what tactics they are likely to use against us.

2. They could launch surgical strikes against us, we could launch the world's arsenal of nuclear weapons at them, all 5,000 + warheads.

3. Pyskers don't work in our universe. (if they do, see reason 8)

4. We have Railgun's, EMPs, high powered lasers, cluster bombs, chemical weapons, biological weapons, and submarines, top secret weapons nobody knows about, advanced targeting systems. Our weaponry vastly out-diversifies theirs.

5. There is no lore out there that says that SM's are immune to bullets. Orks are a prime example of this. Send enough of anything their way and any one of them will fall.

6. We have massive numbers. The US alone has on average 3 guns per person. Russia has millions of assault rifles stockpiled, and China can make millions more. Any one of these countries could take on the SM's and deal significant damage, if not destroy them. All three, in addition to NATO and every other force the planet could muster along with rebel forces and gangs like Al-Queda merely surviving the SM onslaught means the odds are in our favor not theirs.

7. Really, our only weakness, is the weakness of humanity. Without overall unity in the world, and especially if the SM's could convince a portion of our planet to side with them we'd be in serious trouble.

8. If Pyskers exist in our universe, then so does the Emperor - possibly the reason why Tzeentch would send a Chapter of SMs back in time to destroy ancient Terra....If that is true, at this very moment in time, He walks among us. If he does, there would be no war. Instead the Emperor would have knowledge of the future, a Chapter of SM's, and a united Earth 28,000 years before his prophesied ascension. The invasion of a SM chapter now, could possibly be the best thing the for human race - and consequently why Tzeentch has chosen not to weave this fate for us...

@ Lobuka... I like the quotes, but they are still inaccurate:

A. It is likely that generals will have knowledge (or quickly gain that knowledge) that conventional or even modern warfare against SM's will not work. We adapt to the next generation of warfare, while the SM's are limited by their rigid doctrines.

B. The low velocity and kinetic energy of our small arms fire is compensated by the volume of fire we have at our disposal. In addition, the penetrating power of our weapons is amplified greatly by the materials that we make them out of. You can be sure that the best troops of every nation on earth will have modified ammunition made possible by every SM or allied target we manage to kill that is wrapped in adamantium. A tungston round makes mincemeat of even the M1 Abrams. Imagine what adamantium rounds would do.

C. Does that person even know what Anti-matter actually does? If humanity has access to Anti-matter weaponry its GG for the SM's. Period.

We have to assume no prior knowledge of them.

 Lobukia wrote:
They couldn't conquer us, but we couldn't beat them.

Honestly, I think a lot of people here are downplaying how tough Space Marines are supposed to be.

I agree and thank you for sharing those quotes. Here's my 2 cents:

The reason tanks are vulnerable (and require infantry support) is because, despite modern advancements, they're still big, loud, not very agile, and not particularly fast (except on open ground). A Space Marine has, as Lobukia quoted, what appears to be an equal level of protection against small arms that a Bradley (or similar APC variant) would have but with the added ability to duck, weave, lie prone, jump, crouch, climb, vault, run, roll (etc.), being able to move far more quietly (if not silently, depending on the Chapter/fluff), and being a fraction of the size. Admittedly, their primary weapon is nowhere near as powerful as a 70-120mm cannon, but (again, depending on the fluff) a bolter is certainly nothing to sneeze at when it comes to soft and/or semi-armoured targets.

This being said, modern military tech is no slouch. 10 marines might be a truly intimidating force against 50, 100, or 500 soldiers/marines equipped with 5.56 or 7.62 but, as previous posters have mentioned, that kind of match-up just wouldn't happen. I doubt SM would be easy to hit with anti-tank weapons, but that doesn't mean volume of fire wouldn't bring them down. Keeping in mind that you can blow off limbs/chunks without particularly adverse effects (thanks to quick clotting/multiple organs/shock prevention) it would take some fairly heavy weaponry even if you have penetrated the 1-2" of armour. Thankfully, we have plenty of that and (unlike the IG) most of our heavy guns are pretty accurate. Not necessarily man-sized target accurate, but plenty accurate enough.

Depending on how difficult Thunderhawks/Stormravens/Stormtalons are to bring down, AC-130s, A-10s and anything that can fulfill a tactical precision bombing role (F-15, F16, B-1, etc) would make pretty short work of SM on the ground. Even non-guided munitions would probably be fairly effective since SM are still made of flesh and blood and the compression wave effect doesn't really care about 1-2" of plating. You don't need to even come particularly close to hitting them if you have big enough munitions (we're not even talking anywhere near nuclear weapons) and if there's only 2000 or so, that wouldn't take terribly long.

The biggest issue, as some have already mentioned, is probably their ability to strike any location; specifically within fortifications or around choke-points/barriers. That kind of tactical flexibility would not only be kinetically effective (command points/communications nodes/supply lines/etc.) but the psychological issues for the average, human soldier would be catastrophic. Morale can be difficult enough to retain even when you're not facing 8 foot, armoured killing machines that move faster than humans and spit acid. Break the spirit, as they say, and the body follows.

The other, somewhat related, problem for me is that people tend to equate modern military (e.g. US Marines, etc.) with Imperial Guard Regiments and I think that's a bit of a stretch. While some uniquely skilled or experienced forces can probably compare with a basic trooper, I think the vast majority of Earth's military would be at the PDF or even conscript level. Cadians, for example, are usually the poster boys for the IG standard with Kasrkin (Stormtroopers) being the elite of the elite. The tabletop game, unfortunately, gives a woefully optimistic impression of how capable a genetically enhanced, pseudo-cybernetically enhanced, trained from childhood soldier (I'm talking about the Kasrkin, mind you) would be against a Space Marine. Scale it back to the average soldier/airman/sailor/marine (whose greatest combat experience probably comes from CoD) and things start looking rather grimdark indeed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not badmouthing the military (I'm currently serving myself) but the vast majority would be woefully outclassed in any kind of combat with IG infantry, let along SM. Big guns start to even the odds, but then we're back to the problem of actual, genuine combat experience with a vastly superior foe.

DoW

I think we would win. They have a few tanks, Superdudes and Super equipment. BUT we have thousands of tanks, airships, and NAVY. They have no boats, few aircraft and limited soldiers. We have so mush moar than they do. We would overwhelm them through sheer numbers of vehicles. 7 foot tall Super Soldiers or not, We have last resort nukes. /thread

Nice necro...

Have to say reading this made me sad. There was me thinking I was going to be reading a story based on the title. :(