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 wuestenfux wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

No it will not really work. The enemy will see it coming and bubble wrap the Superheavy.

It really depends on what you are facing. As this isn't Apoc, a lot depends on the points. At 1500-2000 point games, how much bubble wrap can be done? For IG, it seems a bit obvious, but for other armies? We'll see how folks figure it out.

 Sarigar wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to the books with rules for superheavies.

If it ever came up, my plan was to deploy my Salamander Sternguard in a drop pod right next to it and unload with 4-8 combi-meltas on it. Will that do the trick?

No it will not really work. The enemy will see it coming and bubble wrap the Superheavy.

It really depends on what you are facing. As this isn't Apoc, a lot depends on the points. At 1500-2000 point games, how much bubble wrap can be done? For IG, it seems a bit obvious, but for other armies? We'll see how folks figure it out.

Yeah, that's something that people seem to keep forgetting; if you have a SHV in a normal game, you aren't going to have much else.

Why are super heavies immune to grav guns?

Cheers

Jamo wrote:
Why are super heavies immune to grav guns?

Cheers

They shouldn't be. I do not see anything in the rules that makes them immune something like that.
The Grav Gun doesn't degrade it's armor, after all.

EDIT: Oh I see. The Grav Gun causes an immobilised result, which is ignored by the SHV. However, the SHV does not ignore the auto-hull point loss, which is the more important effect.

Drop pod melta devs/ fusion crisis suits right next to it.

Dosnt get easier than that

Corollax wrote:
What good are grav guns? Super-heavies are immune to their effects.

Jaws of the World Wolf seems like a good idea until you remember that vehicles are immune and most Gargantuan Creatures will have decent initiative and get a bonus for being (counted as) a monstrous creature. And even if it succeeds, you're only removing d3 wounds.

Psychic Shriek is an interesting choice, though -- you should average almost 1.5 wounds after a successful hit. Gargantuan Creatures are no better than any other Ld10 model in this regard.

Gravguns are good against gargantuans. Gravs also have concussive, making the target I1. If concussive doesnt work, jaws got much less interesting, but grav is still good, ignoring their high T and having many shots. I routinely take out two wraithknights a turn given the chance with grav, so a gargantuan should be doable to kill.

Tigurius for puppet master can be very nice as well.

Edit: only three wounds for jaws makes it useless, more grav, puppet master and melta then

Ah! You were talking about using them for Gargantuan creatures, not vehicles...Yes, that would about do it, wouldn't it...?

Corollax wrote:
Ah! You were talking about using them for Gargantuan creatures, not vehicles...Yes, that would about do it, wouldn't it...?

Yes, they are not immune to concussion. SHV can still be hurt by grav guns though. They just can't be immobilized.

You're right, you can reduce them to I1 with concussive weapons, and Grav Guns are more than capable of doing so.

...But even at I1, I'm not convinced that Jaws is worth it. Even if you make the psychic test, he fails to Deny the Witch, fails his Initiative test (remember, it's considered a monstrous creature for resisting the power), you're still only stripping d3 wounds. The grav guns themselves are already much more cost-effective than Jaws is, even after reducing the target's initiative.

D3 wounds is still pretty useful though. A roll of a 6 can reduce a C'tan to half health.

Well, sure. If you make your psychic test, it doesn't Deny the Witch, it fails its initiative test, and you get the maximum result when rolling to wound.

...Or you could just use your grav weapons that hit on 3's, wound on 3's, and get 3 shots per model at 36 (grav-gun) or 31 (combi-grav) points each.

Or just shoot with both regardless

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Or just shoot with both regardless

When in doubt, use more gun

Moar gunz yez!

Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

Flyers are titan's weakness. Vendettas, storm ravens, and Crimson Hunters make excellent anti-titan units. The problem is with the Revenant titan it essentially has a 4+ invul save as opposed to void shields which means you need a large weight of firepower from those flyers which again is a significant investment in points and $$$.

So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

2. Melta - No armor saves, perfect for getting those explode! damage results for the extra hull points.

3. Pretty much anything with armorbane/fleshbane - against SHV/GCs (respectively), the advantage of the doing the damage you need to is incredibly useful.

4. A lot of guns.

 buddha wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Looking through most of the super heavies and Gargs, it appears that most of them do not have any strong anti-air capability.

The feared Revenant, for example, only has a single S5 Heavy 1 missile launcher to defend itself.

Tau flyers would especially be nasty, since it can strafe around and bombard the SHV with it's S7 turret. If it gets in the rear flank, it could cause some real pain.

Flyers are titan's weakness. Vendettas, storm ravens, and Crimson Hunters make excellent anti-titan units. The problem is with the Revenant titan it essentially has a 4+ invul save as opposed to void shields which means you need a large weight of firepower from those flyers which again is a significant investment in points and $$$.

Not quite. If you manage to get a pen on it, a lucky roll could really hurt it. You need a 6, granted, but that's where the AP bonuses come in. It appears that Titans aren't that great in CC either, and rely on stomps to get anywhere. If they fail to kill the assaulting unit in 1 shot (possible on a 6), a titan won't be able to do any shooting. Also, can you place multiple stomp templates in the same spot? I can't really tell due to the wording.

The fact that entropic strike doesn't work on SHV is problematic though. I was planning to use arcanthrites to have a go at it.

Honesty, I'm more worried about the thunder hawk than the revenant. It's as tough, it has more guns and it's a flyer, meaning you can't assault it and the vast majority of your weapons can't hit it. It is also a tad cheaper.

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

 BoomWolf wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

Again, it says the vehicle suffers an immobilized result and loses 1 hull point.

There is no requirement for the vehicle to be immobilized in order to take damage.

Right. But at that point, you're paying 15 points for a gun that strips 1/3 hull points per shot and has to be put on a relentless model to be effective.

...or you could just use a meltagun, which penetrates much more reliably and has a 50% chance to cause another d3 hull point loss after the penetrating hit.

Corollax wrote:
Right. But at that point, you're paying 15 points for a gun that strips 1/3 hull points per shot and has to be put on a relentless model to be effective.

...or you could just use a meltagun, which penetrates much more reliably and has a 50% chance to cause another d3 hull point loss after the penetrating hit.

Grav Guns have longer range and a higher RoF. If you can get within 6", then meltas would be a good choice. Against something silly like the revenant, that could be difficult.

The rate of fire was already assumed when calculating the hull point damage. Turns out that needing 6's to glance is a good deal for a standard Necron weapon, but pretty lousy for a special weapon you need to put on a bike.

Gravity weapons are lousy against superheavy vehicles. They just are. They're better off than plasmas, certainly, but you'd be better off pointing them at almost anything else in the opponent's army. If you're complaining about Eldar, then have them go hunt some Wave Serpents.

Leave the Superheavies to the melta and haywire. It's what they do.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So there are a few way that I've seen thus far:
1. Grav weapons - especially if you can get Sevrin Loth (guaranteed Bio/Telep/telek powers)/Tigirius/On bikes. A Scouting command squad with all grav-guns will do a number on any gargantuan creature. Even against super heavy tanks, they'll still strip a few hull points off.

Grav has no effect on SHV, as they can't get immoblised from the firstplace.



The melta do make a great job at it though.
Even the "unkillable" revenant will die on an average of 6 BS4 melta shots coming from the rear. (yep, that few on the rear average a kill, even with the fancy holo field.)

Again, it says the vehicle suffers an immobilized result and loses 1 hull point.

There is no requirement for the vehicle to be immobilized in order to take damage.

My mistake then.
Grav away!
Though its still a "hull point on a 6", so melta might get the job done better (with the chances of multiple hullpoints in a single shot and all)

It can do something, yes. That doesn't make it a good choice. 81 shots to kill a typical 9 hull point superheavy with no save and no holo fields is not a winning strategy.

81? damn. that's alot.
Yea, forget the gravs.
Go melta. they can take a revenant in 6 rear shots (or 15 front shots)

Are you sure those numbers are right? 2 points of armor value shouldn't make THAT difference against S8 melta.

Maybe if you were outside of the sweetspot range...? I guess I'm just wanting some context.

Yes. something is weird at this.
Running numbers again.


forgot the damn holo field when calculating the rear.
~12 rear shots. not easy.


And I kept using that number as reasoning why the Revenant aint that scary :\

The C`Tan seems just as bad as the revenant against armies with no superheavies of their own and it is much more likely that you will end up against him than the eldar titan because of cost.

The harridian is also brutal, and there are probably other gargantuans that are bad.

In short, grav is possibly even better than before, you just need to add more melta to your list as well so you can fight the superheavies too

Whoa they are allowing Super Heavies now ?!?!?! Someone please tell me it both is and isn't so !

*stares devilishly at baneblade Varients *

Where are the rules for them ?