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2015/05/20 13:28:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
N.I.B. wrote: Rending Claws equals S8-10 on the charge, plus chance to cause damage in later rounds, which is pretty good use of 5 points compared to not be able to hurt AV 14 at all in subsequent rounds with S7.
My main point is that I don't see how Ymgarls is worth 40 points. The difference between S8 and S9 is too small (still can't double out T5) and you can't even chose the same morph twice in a row, for some derp reason.
Yea I agree, especially with wks gone now t8 is no longer really a thing
2015/05/21 13:05:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
2015/05/23 00:31:21
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
krootman. wrote: Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
Very interesting Nid list, good for the obj heavy Nova missions. Want to test play it against my daemons?
Alright, I'm free every night next week accept tues If you want to test
Hive Fleet Detachment and Skyblight Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 FMC's and respawning Gargoyles should be sufficient to last the game
A lot of people let the gargs get down to 2 or 3 models, then just shoot them off the table last turn of the game :/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/23 00:32:23
2015/05/27 11:50:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
krootman. wrote: Soo my road to the nova open officially started Yesterday morning, which means its list building time!
So after reading basic primer, my first idea is msu bugs, my thoughts on lictors lately is they have been fantastic, but I always wish I had more of them, and when you read nova missions malwocs seem underwhelming most of the time.
So here is my first draft of bugs for the nova open
Cad
Spoiler:
flyrant 240
Malenthrope 85
lictor 50
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 ripper swarm with deep strike 45
3 spore mines 15
Bunker with coms 75
This list has the ability to be whereever it wants, the -1 ld bonus deathleaper and his lictors provide will come in handy vs msu and I have some deep striking obsec that could come in handy from time to time.
I feel that you have way too many lictors. Lictors are effective, but only to a degree. I think your list is over-saturated with them and that isn't necessarily a good thing, especially if you opponent puts his objectives out in the open.
So in nova, all the objectives are preset (as of now anyways) and are either all in, or very close (within 3 inches) of cover. I agree I have a ton of lictors, but it sounds like kps will only be a 2ndary and it using lictors to bum rush weaker units in cc seems like a viable option, especially with the minus 1 ld buff deathleapers brood gives me. Vs say durcurion I would use the flyrants to shoot the spyders and wraiths and assault everything else with the lictors.
Of course this is all subject to testing, this is just a starting point for a potential nova list.
The current list is I am testing is Durcurion with corpsetheif claw.
2015/05/28 12:39:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
SonsofVulkan wrote: Quick question does mucloids count as troops, as for Nova secondary obj like mark for death and strike rank and files
They count for those 2ndaries, but its pretty easy to ds a mucloid in some random ass corner of the board to deny them rank and file. I actually cut down on the number of muclids I have taken because of how many maelstrom and 2ndary points I have scored off opposing players mucloids.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 12:40:01
2015/05/28 20:18:39
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
SonsofVulkan wrote: Quick question does mucloids count as troops, as for Nova secondary obj like mark for death and strike rank and files
They count for those 2ndaries, but its pretty easy to ds a mucloid in some random ass corner of the board to deny them rank and file. I actually cut down on the number of muclids I have taken because of how many maelstrom and 2ndary points I have scored off opposing players mucloids.
Doesn't the "Living Bomb" rule prevent mucolids from counting as a VP for any reason, as it does for spore mines?
Depends what the event faq says, most events still rule they count for moment of bloodshed (Nova and killadephia, and when you have to kill a unit like in the lov missions)
Solidcrash wrote:Yes your right, spore don't count toward to VP.. Unless there are modified house rule..
You are right they dont count as vps, but can count towards achieving 2ndaries like marked for death, and slay the rank and file, which are player made 2ndaries that are not kps and not in the rulebook.
jifel wrote:So here's a question: in a mission where you get points for eliminating an entire slot off of the FOC, do you have to kill all Mucolids? For example in the ATC:
Players earn 1 (one) Kill Point per unit destroyed. 1 Kill Point per 3 hull points for super heavy vehicles and 1 KP per 3 wounds to gargantuan creatures. Players earn 1 Kill Point for each category of Battlefield Role (e.g., "HQ", "Troops", "Lord of War", ‘Host Detachment type,” etc.) completely eliminated. See notes for armies with alternate force organizations. The player with the most kill points at the end of the game wins this objective. If both players are tied this this is a draw.
Now if my troops are 2 Rippers and 3 Mucolids, does he get an extra point for just killing both Rippers, or must he kill Mucolids as well even though they don't count as KPs?
I have not read the atcfaq as I do not plan on attending this event, but I would say they dont count as kps as it specifically says in the rulebook they dont.
2015/05/31 03:32:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Was a fast game, durcurion is a difficult enough match, but the corpsetheif takes away any hope of board control, we called it on turn 3.
So we began to discus different ways for nids to fix some bad match ups for nova, durcurion being one of the worst currently. First off the more I have used//played against mawlocs lately the more I feel they just don't do enough. The idea came that if we added obsec guants to the list then you can play the cumulative missions and take advantage of obsec.
We changed the list to the following
Cad//levi
5 flyrants, 3 20 man guant units, 2 deep striking rippers, 4 lictors, malenthrope, 3 mucloids
This time i ran normal durcurion to help my buddy test vs a more likely matchup, we called it on 5, but it was much closer then the previous match up, the obsec really gives bugs alot of play in nova missions. We also realized you can take an ally detachment as your 3rd source in nova format, which means we can ditch the levi cad and drop the mines. In formats like Killadelphia and nova they just bleed points and honestly are not worth it. The guants also help give the flyrants some board presence
You break it down this way because killing a detachment or source is a 2ndary in nova now.
So with the death of the wraithknight from competitive play, I really really like 5 flyrants, I think between 5 flyrants, and crons murdering tau, you are ok with the tau matchup.
We kept the lictors for things like thunderfires, d cannons, etc that can eat your guants. Lictors disrupt scoring on nova missions pretty well. Finally they are great for making sure your rippers dont scatter.
It needs more testing but I think it has alot of promise, it seems like a good starting point for the nova format. I do however want to try deathleaper brood somewhere down the line for nova format as well.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/05/31 15:18:11
2015/05/31 15:20:13
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tag8833 wrote: Took my Flying circus out against a pretty strong Newdar list yesterday.
The Newdar list looked like this:
Spoiler:
CAD:
Autarch w/ Bike + Shard of Anaris
6 x 5 Scat Bikes.
Crimson Hunter
Wraith Knight w/ Double D's
Seer Council:
Farseer w/ Bike
Farseer w/ Bike
5 Warlocks
We were playtesting the ITC missions. I thought that due to the ITC nerf to D I could get away with Null Deploy using a Bastion + Void Shield + Comms Relay to help me with reserves. I went 2nd. The Wraith Knight Killed my Bastion in 2 rounds of shooting. My opponent also had -1 to reserves as their warlord trait.
Reserves screwed me epically. Lots of stuff didn't come in until 4. It sucked.
I ended up killing all but 1 of the scat bikes, but The seer council only lost 1 warlock and the Wraith Knight was untouched. Meanwhile I ended with 1 Flyrant, 1 Crone, and 2 Lictors. I tied the EW, and won Maelstrom by 1. He got all 3 Tertiaries, so I won 4 to 3. I hate scat bikes so much, but I wasn't expecting the Seer council to be so dominant. They were casting 5-6 powers a turn, and denying every spell I tried to cast with their rerolls.
In testing, list building etc, scatter bikes have proven to not be as bad as everyone feared, it's the seers that will be a pain. With new runes and 3 plus to cast powers, the eldar player shouldn't have an issue getting a lot of his powers off.
2015/06/01 13:04:49
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tag8833 wrote:
What are you guys talking about? Scat bikes are 100% exactly what I expected. I've played them 4 times against nids and 3 times against Orks. Hands down they are the most game changing unit since I've been playing 40k. I would rather play nothing but seerstars 100% of the time. The main effect of the seer star was boosting the scat bikes, and debuffing my stuff if you take away the scat bikes they become laughably easy to beat at least in the missions I tend to play.
Unkillable stuff is a fun killer. Seerstar and Wraith Knights clearly count. But it is hyper-point-efficient, Super Shooting, Super mobile, Super Scoring scat bikes that have changed the face of 40k.
So scatter bikes are no different, then drone star, i knights with reroll invs, flying hive tyrants etc, just a really really good unit, the difference is they are already being figured out and are not living up to the hype. The issue with scatter bikes, is with out wks they really don't give you any kind of board control. Even with jet seer star in the list (which lost fleet btw, so they are not as good at multi charging as they were before) they can't establish any form of board control because they die when looked at. Especially when you have 3-5 flying tyrants.
I really don't think you will see as much eldar dominance as you think. I have been conferring with alot of other top eldar players and tbh most have switched to other armies. Thats not to say they are not good, just saying in my, and some others opinion, they are not as ultra competitive as the old book was.
jy2 wrote:
I like where you're going with all those ObSec bodies. With the new Necrons and with the trend veering away from ObSec, this may be the return of the troop tervigon or just massed ObSec Tyranid troops.
I'm going to have to re-evaluate my Nova list very carefully, but probably not until after the ATC. Just a couple of notes:
1. Unfortunately, not all tournament formats (i.e. the ITC) allows for dual CAD and so we are stuck with non-ObSec troops for Leviathan.
2. Your 3x20 list is lacking in backfield Synapse IMO. Most of the time, flyrants will be too far forwards and relying on only 1 Malanthrope might by a recipe for disaster against certain armies. I would consider dropping 1 lictor and some gants to try to fit in a 2nd, separate Malanthrope.
3. I still shudder when going up against Decurion, especially if they spam Flayed Ones. Those FO's will go through our hordes like a hot knife through butter.
1) yea we are just testing nova format as that's the next large gt we are playing.
2)So with 5 flyrants being able to cast dominion (LOLOLOL IT FINALLY HAS A USE) and a malenthrope I don't think there should be an issue, however there are cheap synpase options if it becomes an issue.
3) Honestly flayed ones are not the worst vs bugs, units of 3 wriaths with scarab backup shred through guants just as quickly as flayed ones accept they are faster.
We considered the troop terv, but it just cost too many points for what it brings, it also dies just as easily as a malwoc and the squishyness of a malwoc was the reason we cut them in the first place.
997Turbo wrote:I was testing the termagant blobs with Krootman, and I agree the 3x20 needs dual malanthropes. Unfortunately NOVA restricts FW to 0-1 units. I think 2 x 20 termagant squads can have the desired effect and still function with one malanthrope. Tthrowing dominion on a tyrant if need be is also an option.
This idea came about when trying to crack decurion with pure Tyranids. Still working on that puzzle.....
Hahaha Hi dallas, didnt know your user name on here whoops. I think im going to pick up a 5th tyrant this week and take this list out for a spin as well.
2015/06/01 16:55:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jy2 wrote:
It really isn't fair to compare the likes of the jetbike to units like deathstars, Imperial Knights and flyrants. Scatterbikes aren't meant to be super-resilient mini-deathstars nor are they meant to even remotely suggested to take their place. Rather, they were meant (or designed) to be a vulnerable, guerilla-tactic unit that you have to protect but who can also win you the game if played properly. They aren't as great in Progressive-style missions where they have to expose themselves each turn (for that, dires in ObSec wave serpents would be the better choice), but they are just deadly in Eternal War missions where they can play the waiting game until Turn 5. Plus, it is only 51-81-pts for a unit of 3 and 3 is all you really need. For that price, they are really, really good, especially if you use them in the role that they were designed to play.
It's just that, fortunately for us bug players, we have the perfect tool to deal with the scatterbikes. Other armies? Maybe not as fortunate.
As for "top Eldar players" switching armies, that isn't necessarily due to the new Eldar codex not being as competitive as before. When the new Decurion Necrons came out, I sort of stopped playing them for a while (at least not competitively) because I didn't think they were as competitive as they were in the previous edition. Now look at how much Necrons are flourishing in tournament play. The new Eldar are still just that - very new. I think that the UK Games Expo (the one where Eldercaveman just went to) is a better indication of how well Eldar will be doing once the very good players start running them competitively. BTW, Eldar went 1st, 2nd and 4th over there.
So I have been in the minority about my feeling with scatter bikes, but in a 3 source format I really feel they are not the end of the world like everyone are making them out to be. You are right they are new, but the more I try to make an eldar list I like, the less I like it. The funny thing is I was experimenting with durcurion crons about a month prior to killadelphia and the uk games expo since i had my killa list set and I knew my eldar didnt work with the codex change.
jy2 wrote:
FO-spam is a very competitive Necron build (like Flesh Hound spam). IMO, it's even better than wraithspam Necrons, and this is coming from someone who has been playing wraithspam ever since 5th Edition to now. The Canoptek Harvest formation costs you about 370-pts for 1 spider, 3 scarabs and 6 wraiths with whip coils. A unit of 20 FO's only costs 260-pts but puts out a heck a of better punch than the wraiths in CC. Where wraiths have the edge is the speed, the ability to punch through AV11+ vehicles (FO's will easily glance AV10 vehicles to death) and the ability to hurt super-tough units like wraithknights. Where FO's outshine wraiths is in pure offense (100 attacks on the charge vs 24 for the wraiths), better resiliency to low AP weaponry, no single point of failure (kill the spider and the wraiths lose RP) and of course, they are cheaper, thus allowing you to get more into the army. BTW, in the ITC format, you can't spam the Canoptek Harvest formation due to the 0-1 limitations on all formations/detachments, but you can spam FO's because it is considered a detachment unit as opposed to a detachment formation.
Again I was on the flayed one bandwagon about a month ago. I started with 4-6 min units, but I kind of fell off using them, frankly they are too slow and they still can get wittled down by small arms fire to the point where they are not super effective in combat. Honestly tho their speed was what did it in for me. Then I went back to wraiths, but 6 seemed too many for what you want them to do. I am really really enjoying spamimg the crap out of min harvest formations right now in durcurion which you can do in nova.
Like you said tho you cant spam harvests in itc, but you can spam flayed ones, however in that format I think id lean more towards a durcurion//necron cad with scarab farm, backed up by 2 min wraith units and 2-4 units of 5-7 flayed ones. Especially considering the itc scatter bike nerf made scarabs alot better.
My current nova list has 3 harvests, a reclmation legion with a bufed tb unit, and the 5 talos formation which is silly good.
A list some of my buddies and I are toying around with is eldar cad, seer formation, and levi for a seer star, 3 ejb units, and your standard 3 flyrant 3 mucloid formation. I feel like theres a good amount of tool box things you can do there and some silly psy combos you can do with flyrants and seers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldercaveman wrote:
At the Expo, it was alot of top players switching TOO Eldar, and not the other way round. The players who finished 1 and 2, were previously known for their Farsight bomb, Necrons and Daemons around here. They also drew their last game against each other on top table their list's were roughly
1st Place
2 Farseer
4 medium sized units of scatter bikes
Wraithknight
2 squads of spiders
1 Hawks
4 D Cannon battery's
Mission - Kill Points Deployment - Vanguard
First Turn - Eldar
I deploy my Venomthrope in a Bastion which was in my deployment area, with 4 Hive Tyrants behind it, Mucoloids all deploy out of sight, everything else in reserve.
He moves around his skimmers to get line of sight on to my Flyrants, his Nightspinner immobilise itself in a ruins.
Eldar get perfect timing off on the Lynx and guide on one of the Hornets.
I messed up with my deployment, thinking he had the hellstorm torrent Lynx, my mistake which costs me 2 Flyrants, the bastion and my Venomthrope, 1 Flyrant loses 3 wounds and one is untouched by the end of his shooting.
My first turn I fly off the untouched Flyrant, to guarentee I have some reserves Turn 2! My wounded flyrant goes super aggresive up the field, and puts catalyst on himself, before dropping a hornet.
His turn 2 is entire army unloads into my 1 wound Flyrant, and between jink saves and FNP I don't take a single wound
After this point my memory is a bit blurred, but I think all my reserves come on and proceed to take down his easy skimmers. and only lose one more unit for the whole game, I think it was the third Flyrant.
Final score 6-4 on kill points to the Tyranids!
I'll add the rest of the reports tomorrow.
Interesting, but your meta over there is quite a bit different then here, and its hard to translate from 1850 to 1650 as those 200 points make a huge difference in list construction, also I dont know what missions you use so I would assume they lend themselves to mobile shooting armies. I do really like 2nd place eldar list on there tho.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/01 17:00:38
2015/06/01 19:45:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
@jy2, nova is all about speed this yr, masssed flayed ones honestly wont kill to much. I see what you are saying about a larger unit as an area denial anchor and at 130 for a 10 man unit, I could see myself trying one somewhere down the line, but those harvest formations are such money. Now im very early into testing so everything is subject to change.
Will you be making it to nova this yr?
2015/06/02 12:33:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
krootman. wrote: @jy2, nova is all about speed this yr, masssed flayed ones honestly wont kill to much. I see what you are saying about a larger unit as an area denial anchor and at 130 for a 10 man unit, I could see myself trying one somewhere down the line, but those harvest formations are such money. Now im very early into testing so everything is subject to change.
Will you be making it to nova this yr?
Yeah, I'll be going to both the Invitational as well as the Open.
Perhaps we can get a rematch in. Just right now, I'm not sure what I'm bringing yet.
Nice same here, I think im going to bring the same army for both the invitational and the open. I am hoping to have it finalized in about a month or so. Hopefully getting 2-4 more nova games in this week.
2015/06/16 11:58:02
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
So the meta is shifting nicely in Tyranids favor with the introduction of Sms, who hard counter necrons about as hard as they counter bugs. Also sms are another nail in the coffin for tau. Now obviously this doesn't mean you will never see either army, but I think sms are going to cause a notable shift. Bugs (especially the 5 flyrant variant) do a number on msu marines.
I also think after watching others, and helping my friends test, that the 5 flyrant build is the only viable build that has a chance to do well in NOVA format.
Oh and hormoguants may be a viable replacement over termguants for obsec that can actually kill things.
2015/06/16 18:50:17
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
tag8833 wrote: I don't see how SMs counter Necrons. Demon summoning through the librarian formation? S10 Apoc blast from taking 3 tanks? I think the type of necron lists that have been winning events near me will continue to smash space marines, and mainly fear demons (demonkin) and skitari drop pods. Centstar can sometimes beat necrons.
In nova format if you run double demi company, you end up with about 25-30 obsec marines, and durcurion necrons just cant kill that many obsec models before you max out the Primary and 2ndarys.
I have played 4 games with it and it has been very very promising, actually my only loss in so far has been to Turbo's 5 flyrant list, but with more testing and properly picking my 2ndaries I think I can fix that matchup. But as I said before bugs match up very well against sms
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and I played grav spam lastnight, lost 75 marines and 10 transports and still won the mission on turns 5, 6 and 7 lol
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/16 19:03:58
2015/06/24 21:58:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
So I have been playing quite a few games with white scars gladius strike force (9 so far with another 5 scheduled between tomorrow and sunday) and have gone 7 and 2 vs good opponents, those loses coming to nicks daemons (of course lol) and turbo 997s nids. It was a pretty brutal game where he took it 18 to 16 in nova format, that said it was my 2nd game with the army and I think the changes I made can make the matchup winnable.
Currently my scars list is the following
Khan
chaplin with auspex
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 devs in razorback
5 devs in razorback
5 scouts
5 scouts
5 scouts
inquisitor with 3 servo skulls and combi melta
1850
Khan goes with a cmd squad or assault marines, and the chappy and inq go with a cmd squad. Every squad combat squads every single game
So in nova format, its pretty much impossible to keep me from maxing turn by turn primary. as for 2ndaries, I have been able to get linebraker in all but 1 of my games, I always take marked for death as well (vs the penta flyrant list its usually the malenthrope) but I pretty much give up all 3 2ndaries by turn 2 lol. So the game comes down to if I can keep the bug player from getting more then 6 on his primary and he can keep me from getting the last 2 points on my 2ndary. I feel like the matchup is 60/40 in the nid players favor but this can change depending on how many psy screams he gets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/24 22:00:42
2015/06/24 23:41:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
Summary coming out later.
Summary:
In the deployment phase, I scout my transports up 12" to get as close to the objectives as I can (thanks to Khan). Tyranids go first.
Tyranid 1 - Flyrants take off. With their shooting, they kill 5 of my transports and take some hull points off a couple more. First Blood to Tyranids as expected. Also, his 2 Maelstrom objectives were to kill 2 units and so he easily achieves it.
Marines 1 - I need to kill 1 unit and have a unit in my opponent's deployment edge. I drop my ironclad onto his home objective. I get 2 Skyfire objectives. However, I don't have a good shooting unit on either of them. I focus on his Warlord and manage to take off 2W from him. However, fortunately for him, he passes his grounding test (I was ready to assault his Warlord with my terminators). I only achieve 1 Maelstrom objective (unit in his deployment edge).
Tyranid 2 - Mawloc comes in and kills 10 marines, 1 transport and put 1HP on a drop pod as well!!! This turn, he takes out the rest of my transports and kill a few guys. However, he achieves neither of his Maelstrom objectives due to my ObSec guys.
Marines 2 - 1 unit of Assault marines come in. Moved around, put 1-2 wounds on a flyrant. Terminators fail their charge. My ironclad actually makes his assault against the flyrant but dies to a Smash attack (I absorbed his Egrub overwatch with a tactical unit). I do, however, grab both of my Maelstrom objectives.
Tyranid 3 - He is kicking my ass. Flyrants focus on my ObSec infantry and kill most of them (the non-terminator ones). My opponent does make a mistake and charge his lector into my assault marines, only to lose him to my 2 Wall of Death flamer Overwatch (and also giving me one of my Maelstrom objectives, which was to kill an enemy unit). I have 1 devastator squad, 2 assault marine units and a few models from my tacticals remaining (and all of my terminators). He gets one of his Maelstorm objectives (kill 1 unit).
Marines 3 - I don't have much offense left. Shooting puts another wound on a flyrant but fail to ground it. I do insta-kill another lictor with my cyclone terminators. Once again, assault terminators fail another charge. At least I get both of my Maelstrom objectives once again (kill 1 unit and have 1 unit in his deployment zone).
Tyranid 4 - He goes for the killing blow. Mawlocs come out again (after burrowing last turn) on top of my terminators. He kills 3 in 1 unit and 3-4 in another. This turn is brutal as he wipes out 2 terminator squads, 1 of my assault marines and both of my HQ's, including my Warlord. I only have 1 terminator left, 1 unit of devastators, 1 tactical marine, 1 unit of assault marines and 2 drop pods.
Marines 4 - I concede. It turned out that I wouldn't have been tabled by Turn 5, but nonetheless, my Marines have lost convincingly.
Post-Game Thoughts: This is just my 1st game running the Battle Company and I don't think my list was very good (I didn't know you could run Devastator Centurions instead of Devastator marines!). Yet, it could be potentially very good with some more optimization and a little more experience. However, it ended as I kind of suspected. Pentyrant is a great counter to Battle Company marines because it is very effective in dealing with MSU armies. In this game, my Chapter Tactics didn't really help me all that much. I was running White Scars which gives each and every one of my units with Chapter Tactics Hit-&-Run. However, Geoff's army didn't really look to do much assaulting. Rather, he just blasted me away from the air. Against his army, I should have chosen the Red Scorpions Chapter Tactics, which would have given all my tactical squads and veteran sergeants FNP. Or even Red Hunters, which could have potentially given my army Skyfire for 1 turn.
Anyways, the point I want to make is that as good as the Battle Company is (it gave me 525-pts of free transports!!!), Tyranids have the tools to deal with them. Marines are resilient due to their numbers. However, they just don't hit very hard and will generally have problems against flyer armies. I believe the Battle Company will be a top-tier army. However, Tyranids do have the tools to not only take them on, but to give them problems as well.
So I rematched turbos 5 flyrant list this past weekend with my gladius , I ran the following list
2 demi compaines
Khan
Chaplin with auspex
2 10 man tac rhinos
4 5 man tacs razorbacks
2 5 man cmd squads 5 meltas in pod
2 5 man assault squads 5 man 2 flamers in pod
2 5 man devs in rbs
1st company formation
3 units of 5 sternguard in pods
Inq with combi melta and 3 skulls
So we played 2 games using the nova packet, he rolled no shreaks which is something important to note but we felt this could happen in a gt so he wanted to test it.
Game 1:
I went first, he started all the flyrants on the board, I podded in 1 cmd squad and 3 sternguard. I auspexed a flyrant hoping to alpha one off the board. I actually killed 2 using a combination of 2+ ammo with sternguard (using the dev doctrine to reroll 1s) and my 5 melta cmd squad auspexing another flyrant. He rolled bad so we reracked.
Game2: he went first we played the relic mission, and while I didnt alpha strike any of his flyrants I was able to grab 17 out of 19 points by turn 4 and we realized there was no way he could catch up.
Long story short, the new additions to my list enables me to alpha a flyrant turn 1 which is important and gives the bug player cause for concern if I go first, almost forcing him to null deploy, ensuring he won't have enough time to remove me off objectives. The more shreaks you roll the easier the match becomes. I do not think it is the auto win hard counter match up we originally thought it was.
2015/06/29 20:58:42
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
So I really really like 5 flyrants in nova format...but I keep feeling like the rest of the points I can use is meh at best...sooo I came up with the following list
Daemon allies
HOT lvl 2 with disc
HOT lvl1
10 horrors
1845
16 dice, and gives me the abilty to summon daemons to hold objectives and give me some kind of ground and backfield presence.
I plan on giving it a test run sometime this week or next week. I dont actually plan on taking this to nova as ill be using my sms, but I am sure going to try it.
Oh and a 6 flyrant list placed 2nd at the togit rtt I was at this weekend that had alot of good players playing (navatti, nayden, and some other players who regularly do well at gts. )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/29 20:59:26
2015/06/30 15:03:18
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
2. No CtA allies, so no daemon summoning for bugs.
However, if I were to go by Nova rules, I would go something like this:
2x Leviathan's:
6x Dakka Flyrants w/5x Egrubs
6x Mucolids
Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 1x Greater Gift
3x Nurglings
I've got 1 less warp charge but another dangerous FMC. More importantly, I've got mobile summoning as well as more reliable summoning (with 1 caster as opposed to 3 casters to dip into the Warp pool).
Thats not a bad list, you could somehow maybe drop e grubs from 1 more flyrant and add portal on the loc for more random single horror units lol.
I am actually looking forward to playing itc format after bfs.
2015/07/01 09:40:27
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Lol. It isn't a list that I would recommend to people, but it is a list that I might playtest against good friends who bring equally lol-able lists.
he this is the only bug list id currently tell people who want to be competitive to run! But I am lucky in the sense that my play group is all people who are on the same page competitive wise, and are all testing for the same event. We have been getting some fantastic test games in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/01 09:42:05
2015/07/13 13:25:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
skycapt44 wrote: I am also interested in dakka'a thoughts on nid highlander. Seems tough for the nids wondering what people think. I feel broods of dakkafex could be useful and the dimacharon seems promising. Also tervigon seems like a no brainer due to spawning
Considering how every list starts out with how many flyrants can I fit, then how do I best support them with my left over points, I'd say nids are in trouble.
2015/08/28 21:39:28
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
skycapt44 wrote: If you can only select a single FW unit in the highlander do you think the dimacharon is a better choice than the malanthrope? I mean you can always take venoms so dima seems like that way to go in a cyte.
It all depends on the rest of the list and the highlander rules.
2015/08/31 16:12:57
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Ratius wrote:How did you get wings on him Kroot? I have 3 of them. Or are you footsloggin?
Found some random wings in my bitz box, sawed them in half and put them on his back.
astro_nomicon wrote:
krootman. wrote: Everyone ready for nova? I just got my 2nd ed hive tyrant ready to go
Hahaha I have a 2nd ed Tyrant as well but I've never used it 'cause it feels dirty.
Heres a size comparison for my flyrants. The goal was to use one from each ed. (1 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 2 or 3 5th ed ones with wings depending on which list I use).
Excuse the paint job its literally white prime with washes, never really wanted to paint bugs so I just painted them with an obnoxious wash that would be event legal, that would be easy to paint over someday...and that was 4 years ago and the army just keeps getting larger lol.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/31 17:07:24
2015/08/31 18:01:19
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
astro_nomicon wrote:Ok yeah I could see using him with a scenic base. Totally gonna do that to up to 4 Flyrants! Just wish I had the right models for a supporting ensemble :( and I aint got no moneys to spend on 'Nids right now.
Ha the entire bug portion of the army is flyrants, mucloids, and a malenthrope lol
jy2 wrote:If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.
I have new respect to people from the west who have to fly models out to all their events. I did it for the first time at last yrs lvo and it was a huge pain in the ass. (I have my models driven to adepticon every yr)
I am so happy I can drive to every event on the east coast lol
2015/08/31 18:36:56
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Iechine wrote: Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.
I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.
No worries, just have fun. I'm feeling anxious because the NOVA Invitational is one of the most competitive tournaments around. It's by invite-only and almost everyone there has won something or at the very least have done consistently well in the tournament scene.
BTW, I've been rocking with my bugs lately. My BAO bugs have won 2 RTT's in a row (after the BAO) and I've shot up in the ITC standings. They haven't counted my 2nd win yet, but after they do, I might potentially be ranked 2nd both in Tyranids and Overall as well, trailing only Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson, who is the current leader (both for Tyranids and Overall).
Yup, I'm running a different army for the invitational and the open. Should make for an interesting weekend. what seed are you in the invitational?
2015/09/01 12:03:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes
2015/09/01 23:21:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.
Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.
They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.
Where abouts in Europe are you touring?
Highly unlikely that I will be able to gate and then charge them. They're just too fast and my deathstar isn't. I will, however, focus on what I can kill....which will be the rest of the army.
I'm going to Prague. Would love to re-visit the UK....especially since I will have my army with me....but not this time.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes
Good luck buddy. I can't say with confidence that we will meet in the Invitational, but who knows. See you there.
Eternal War is about keeping your guys alive till turn five so 7 
This turn, he takes out the rest of my transports and kill a few guys. However, he achieves neither of his Maelstrom objectives due to my ObSec guys.
