Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How would Swarmlord stack up versus a Wraithknighg ?

Badly as it is an MC and not a GMC so gets stomped to death.

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?

I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.

I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.

But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.

 Tyran wrote:

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?

I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.

I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.

But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.

That's not even remotely logical. It doesn't matter what the surrounding conditions are.If there are more grav guns around this should affect the meta and not a unit's price. This means that the more gravs are used the less WK's we should see, then shift to light armored armies that would in turn make the gravs useless and therefore less used etc etc etc. A unit's cost should never be calculated with the meta shifting in mind. It would only consider the things this particular unit brings to the table. The things a WK brings to the battle cost way way too much more than it's price.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How would Swarmlord stack up versus a Wraithknighg ?

Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:

1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.

2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How would Swarmlord stack up versus a Wraithknighg ?

Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:

1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.

2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.

Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.

The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How would Swarmlord stack up versus a Wraithknighg ?

Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:

1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.

2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.

Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.

The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.

1. Swarmy does not have Adrenal Glands. He can give himself Furious Charge but not both FC and Monster Hunter. In this case, it's better to give him MH because usually it will be the WK who will get the charge.

2. Shooty WK's have no Invuln's unless someone casts Forewarning on him.

3. WS4 vs WS9. WK hits on a 5+.

4. GMC's can be locked in combat. Swarmy has a great chance to kill the shooty-WK on the 2nd turn of assault....assuming he doesn't get stomped to death first.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?

I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.

I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.

But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.

That's not even remotely logical. It doesn't matter what the surrounding conditions are.If there are more grav guns around this should affect the meta and not a unit's price. This means that the more gravs are used the less WK's we should see, then shift to light armored armies that would in turn make the gravs useless and therefore less used etc etc etc. A unit's cost should never be calculated with the meta shifting in mind. It would only consider the things this particular unit brings to the table. The things a WK brings to the battle cost way way too much more than it's price.

The Wraithknight is undercosted, but there is no way to justify a cost like our gargantuan creatures, who are blatantly overcosted.

 jy2 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
How would Swarmlord stack up versus a Wraithknighg ?

Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:

1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.

2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.

Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.

The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.

1. Swarmy does not have Adrenal Glands. He can give himself Furious Charge but not both FC and Monster Hunter. In this case, it's better to give him MH because usually it will be the WK who will get the charge.

2. Shooty WK's have no Invuln's unless someone casts Forewarning on him.

3. WS4 vs WS9. WK hits on a 5+.

4. GMC's can be locked in combat. Swarmy has a great chance to kill the shooty-WK on the 2nd turn of assault....assuming he doesn't get stomped to death first.

1. In my area Mc's are allowed to take biomorphs according to their types (we did this when the white dorf stuff came out). So MH it is then.
2. I am quite sure a WK can have 1 x cannon + shield for a 5+ inv + blind nova, am I mistaken?
3. Isn't WK weapon skill 5? This indeed changes a lot.
4. Yup, right.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

2. I am quite sure a WK can have 1 x cannon + shield for a 5+ inv + blind nova, am I mistaken?

If you're running the suncannon over the regular heavy D-cannons, then you are missing out. My only rebuttal is this....convert your model back to the base guns NOW!

And yes, the WK is only WS4.

Everyone ready for nova? I just got my 2nd ed hive tyrant ready to go

How did you get wings on him Kroot? I have 3 of them. Or are you footsloggin?

 krootman. wrote:
Everyone ready for nova? I just got my 2nd ed hive tyrant ready to go

Hahaha I have a 2nd ed Tyrant as well but I've never used it 'cause it feels dirty.

I'll hopefully be ready, works been killing me and I am not energized to go at all. Nevertheless, working on a display board today.

Ratius wrote:How did you get wings on him Kroot? I have 3 of them. Or are you footsloggin?

Found some random wings in my bitz box, sawed them in half and put them on his back.

astro_nomicon wrote:

 krootman. wrote:
Everyone ready for nova? I just got my 2nd ed hive tyrant ready to go

Hahaha I have a 2nd ed Tyrant as well but I've never used it 'cause it feels dirty.

Heres a size comparison for my flyrants. The goal was to use one from each ed. (1 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 2 or 3 5th ed ones with wings depending on which list I use).

Excuse the paint job its literally white prime with washes, never really wanted to paint bugs so I just painted them with an obnoxious wash that would be event legal, that would be easy to paint over someday...and that was 4 years ago and the army just keeps getting larger lol.

Ok yeah I could see using him with a scenic base. Totally gonna do that to up to 4 Flyrants! Just wish I had the right models for a supporting ensemble :( and I aint got no moneys to spend on 'Nids right now.

If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.

Yea I'm digging the short drive there, thats for sure. What are you bringing, Jim?

I'm bringing the centstar.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.

If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.

Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.

Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.

I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.

astro_nomicon wrote:Ok yeah I could see using him with a scenic base. Totally gonna do that to up to 4 Flyrants! Just wish I had the right models for a supporting ensemble :( and I aint got no moneys to spend on 'Nids right now.

Ha the entire bug portion of the army is flyrants, mucloids, and a malenthrope lol

jy2 wrote:If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.

I have new respect to people from the west who have to fly models out to all their events. I did it for the first time at last yrs lvo and it was a huge pain in the ass. (I have my models driven to adepticon every yr)

I am so happy I can drive to every event on the east coast lol

 Iechine wrote:
Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.

I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.

No worries, just have fun. I'm feeling anxious because the NOVA Invitational is one of the most competitive tournaments around. It's by invite-only and almost everyone there has won something or at the very least have done consistently well in the tournament scene.

BTW, I've been rocking with my bugs lately. My BAO bugs have won 2 RTT's in a row (after the BAO) and I've shot up in the ITC standings. They haven't counted my 2nd win yet, but after they do, I might potentially be ranked 2nd both in Tyranids and Overall as well, trailing only Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson, who is the current leader (both for Tyranids and Overall).




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krootman. wrote:

jy2 wrote:If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.

I have new respect to people from the west who have to fly models out to all their events. I did it for the first time at last yrs lvo and it was a huge pain in the ass. (I have my models driven to adepticon every yr)

I am so happy I can drive to every event on the east coast lol

Thanks. If it weren't for my going on vacation directly after NOVA, I might have considered it. But I really don't want to lug my bugs throughout Europe after NOVA. Lol.

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.

I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.

No worries, just have fun. I'm feeling anxious because the NOVA Invitational is one of the most competitive tournaments around. It's by invite-only and almost everyone there has won something or at the very least have done consistently well in the tournament scene.

BTW, I've been rocking with my bugs lately. My BAO bugs have won 2 RTT's in a row (after the BAO) and I've shot up in the ITC standings. They haven't counted my 2nd win yet, but after they do, I might potentially be ranked 2nd both in Tyranids and Overall as well, trailing only Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson, who is the current leader (both for Tyranids and Overall).

Yup, I'm running a different army for the invitational and the open. Should make for an interesting weekend. what seed are you in the invitational?

#18. My opponent will be Matt Schuchman. You know him?

Seer council

OrdoSean wrote:
Seer council

Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.

Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.

Good luck Jim ! I think censtar could go a long way at NOVA.

I havent been to Nova in about 5 years jim. If I was able to go I would be in the invitational of course.

 jy2 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Seer council

Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.

Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.

They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.


Where abouts in Europe are you touring?

 jy2 wrote:
I'm bringing the centstar.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.

If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.

Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.

I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes

OrdoSean wrote:
I havent been to Nova in about 5 years jim. If I was able to go I would be in the invitational of course.

Oh, ok. Then maybe I'll catch you back at LVO 2016.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

OrdoSean wrote:
Seer council

Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.

Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.

They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.


Where abouts in Europe are you touring?

Highly unlikely that I will be able to gate and then charge them. They're just too fast and my deathstar isn't. I will, however, focus on what I can kill....which will be the rest of the army.


I'm going to Prague. Would love to re-visit the UK....especially since I will have my army with me....but not this time.

 krootman. wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I'm bringing the centstar.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.

If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.

Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.

I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes

Good luck buddy. I can't say with confidence that we will meet in the Invitational, but who knows. See you there.