The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)

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**PartyMuffin**

A friendly reminder, that maybe Swarmlord's stats might seem underwhelming if calculating for 7 Lascannon shots to the teeth. But remember new rules stating how characters work.
Characters are untargetable UNLESS they are the closest model to the target.

Swarmy should be quite comfortable behind gargoyles + gaunts teheheh.....MWAHAHAHAHA!

**Spoletta**

Only for characters that have 10 or less wounds.
Swarmy will be taking lascannon shots to the teeth like a champ, so start painting your guards.

**PartyMuffin**

^ good show

**luke1705**

Posted this over in the news and rumors thread, but thought it had a lot of impact on us as well. I saw it listed in the datasheet for a leaked Tau flyer:

The "hard to hit" rule, previously causing all models to snapshoot when they shot at flyers/fmc, etc, has been changed to a -1 to hit modifier, and I can imagine that this is the case for all flyers and FMC.

While I was hoping for more than that, it makes sense because the amounts of wounds have been increased for flyers and such, which wound have led to flyers and FMC being stupidly durable if it was a -2 or -3 to hit modifier.

What this means for us is that while wings are probably still good at helping us get to combat faster, if we still can't charge when we move upwards of 12", then I don't really see the benefit (because I also think that assault-based hive tyrants will probably be better than shooty flyrants, but that is still a bit of a hunch). Especially when the tyrant guard can tank wounds for the tyrant (who is moving what looks like 9" without the wings), walking seems pretty beneficial. Would really suck if those dudes slowed the tyrant back down to 6" move or something like that though due to a small range on the ability to tank wounds...

**Tyran**

luke1705 wrote:
Posted this over in the news and rumors thread, but thought it had a lot of impact on us as well. I saw it listed in the datasheet for a leaked Tau flyer:

The "hard to hit" rule, previously causing all models to snapshoot when they shot at flyers/fmc, etc, has been changed to a -1 to hit modifier, and I can imagine that this is the case for all flyers and FMC.

While I was hoping for more than that, it makes sense because the amounts of wounds have been increased for flyers and such, which wound have led to flyers and FMC being stupidly durable if it was a -2 or -3 to hit modifier.

What this means for us is that while wings are probably still good at helping us get to combat faster, if we still can't charge when we move upwards of 12", then I don't really see the benefit (because I also think that assault-based hive tyrants will probably be better than shooty flyrants, but that is still a bit of a hunch). Especially when the tyrant guard can tank wounds for the tyrant (who is moving what looks like 9" without the wings), walking seems pretty beneficial. Would really suck if those dudes slowed the tyrant back down to 6" move or something like that though due to a small range on the ability to tank wounds...

I have the feeling we will be able to charge to make up for the lost in durability.

**GodDamUser**

luke1705 wrote:
Posted this over in the news and rumors thread, but thought it had a lot of impact on us as well. I saw it listed in the datasheet for a leaked Tau flyer:

The "hard to hit" rule, previously causing all models to snapshoot when they shot at flyers/fmc, etc, has been changed to a -1 to hit modifier, and I can imagine that this is the case for all flyers and FMC.

While I was hoping for more than that, it makes sense because the amounts of wounds have been increased for flyers and such, which wound have led to flyers and FMC being stupidly durable if it was a -2 or -3 to hit modifier.

What this means for us is that while wings are probably still good at helping us get to combat faster, if we still can't charge when we move upwards of 12", then I don't really see the benefit (because I also think that assault-based hive tyrants will probably be better than shooty flyrants, but that is still a bit of a hunch). Especially when the tyrant guard can tank wounds for the tyrant (who is moving what looks like 9" without the wings), walking seems pretty beneficial. Would really suck if those dudes slowed the tyrant back down to 6" move or something like that though due to a small range on the ability to tank wounds...

As the Helldrake Doesn't have 'Hard to hit' in its rules I would suspect the Tyranid Flyers not to get it as well, but this means we are also likely not have to worry about minimum move distance..

Without looking at all of the rules, it would appear a Helldrake can move and charge (30" move) so it looks like CC Flyrants may well be a thing again (I need to fix mine)

**Caederes**

luke1705 wrote:
Posted this over in the news and rumors thread, but thought it had a lot of impact on us as well. I saw it listed in the datasheet for a leaked Tau flyer:

The "hard to hit" rule, previously causing all models to snapshoot when they shot at flyers/fmc, etc, has been changed to a -1 to hit modifier, and I can imagine that this is the case for all flyers and FMC.

While I was hoping for more than that, it makes sense because the amounts of wounds have been increased for flyers and such, which wound have led to flyers and FMC being stupidly durable if it was a -2 or -3 to hit modifier.

What this means for us is that while wings are probably still good at helping us get to combat faster, if we still can't charge when we move upwards of 12", then I don't really see the benefit (because I also think that assault-based hive tyrants will probably be better than shooty flyrants, but that is still a bit of a hunch). Especially when the tyrant guard can tank wounds for the tyrant (who is moving what looks like 9" without the wings), walking seems pretty beneficial. Would really suck if those dudes slowed the tyrant back down to 6" move or something like that though due to a small range on the ability to tank wounds...

The Heldrake doesn't have "hard-to-hit" and it is a Flyer. Based on that and other evidence, from what I can understand only certain flyers will have a rule like that. Ergo, I can see a Flying Hive Tryant not having that rule, but something like a Harpy very well might.

**Ratius**

OOO and Mawlocs sound decidedly underwhelming. Ho hum.
As someone else mentioned this ed for Nids could be Stealer rush and little else.

**SeraphimXIX**

Warriors got a ten point deduction despite being better in every way then they used to be-all carnifex are also way better.

I'm going with a footslogging horde. The tools are there to be effective.

**Tyran**

Uploading leaks about point costs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also from the 8th ed thread.

Stranglethorn Cannon does d6 shots. for every 10 models in a unit, the wielder gets +1 to hit. range 36"; S 7; AP -1; D 2

Heavy Venom Cannon: range 36"; D3 shots *if i remember right* S 9; AP -2; D d3

Adrenal glands add 1 to advance and charge range. Toxin sacs: rolls of 6 make 2d

Rupture Cannon: S 10; AP -1; D d3; heavy 2. If it hits with both shots, they get AP -4; D d6. And if Tyrannofex stands still, all his weapons can fire twice

Tyrannofex has T 8; 14 or 16 W

Tyrannocyte can transport 20 infantry models or 1 monstrous Creature with max 14 wounds

Zoanthropes: Warp Blast has become a special rule that makes smite spell do d3 additional mortal wounds *looks like all psykers have smite* Neurothrope makes zoanthropes regain d3 wounds when they kill with smite. Zoanthropes also cost 40 points now. if the unit is 4+ models, they can cast 2 psychic powers

Maleceptor has T8; 14 wounds; armor save 3+. You can chose to use its own psychic power and it targets a number of enemy units depending on how many wounds it still has. Roll 1 dice for the enemy units: on a 1 nothing happens. on a roll of 2+ the enemy unit suffers a mortal wound

Trygon: T 6; 14 W; movement 8

Toxicrene: T 8; 14 W; 3+ armor save. One ability it has makes you roll a d6 for every enemy model within 1 inch. on a roll of 6, the enemy suffers a mortal wound

**Lance845**

Anyone notice the upgrade is called "Scything wings" for 13 pts?

**Tyran**

Lance845 wrote:
Anyone notice the upgrade is called "Scything wings" for 13 pts?

I imagine it is a combination of scything talons and wings for the shrikes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also another compilation:

Tervigon M8" W14 S7 T8 Save3+, can either create a 10 fleshborer Termagaunt unit (you need to keep the points for them) OR re-add fleshborer Termagaunt models to an existing unit
>Carnifex
>67 points
>M7" WS4+ S6 T7 W8 A4 3+
>It doesn't degrade
>if charge does mortal wound on a 4+
>Crushing claws are Sx2 AP-3 damage 3
>Monstrous Scything Talons S: User AP-3 damage 3
>Bonemace S8 Ap-1 d3 damage.
>If with 2 weapons +1 attacks
>2 Scything talons reroll 1 to hit.

Haruspex

S7 (degrades) T8 W13
If it kills a model it can do an extra attack and heal 1 wound.
Every wound he takes does a mortal wound on the enemy on a 6 (I suppose it's acid blood)
If killed roll a dice, on a 6 it does 3 mortal wound on an enemy unit within 3"
Digging claws Sx2 AP-3 damage d6

Venomthrope
-1 to be hit for infantry.

Lictor
WS2+ S6 W4 A3 5+
+2 armour save in cover,
-1 to be hit
can infiltrate at 9" and can reroll charge the turn it shows up
Gargoyles move 12
Shrikes move 10
Broodlord HQ
Mucolid spore FA
Devourers with Brainleech are 18" S6 Assualt 3
Boneswords AP -2 +1 attack if you've got a pair
Powers:
1. Catalyst basically 5+ FnP
2. -1 to hit and LD on enemy unit
3. Move and fire heavy/advance and fire with assualt with no modifiers, advance and still charge
Shadow in the warp psykers within 8 get -1 LD, within 12 of HT/Swarmlord

>mawloc can deploy up to 1" away from enemies but 6" away from other mawlocs
>enemies within 2" get damage according to a d6
>1: nothing; 2-3: 1 mortal; 4-5: d3 mortals; 6: 3 mortals
>can't charge in the same turn; can reenter reserves like before

**Lance845**

flyrants are also listed separate from ht. could be its own unit now.

**SeraphimXIX**

Any units in reserve past turn 4 automatically die don't they? The mawloc seems like it got fethed over pretty bad.

Almost everything else seems bretty good. I wonder if to-hit penalties can stack.

-Cast the -1 ld/-1 to-hit on a big blob you want to kill
-Follow up with venomthropes

Enjoy hitting on 5's or 6's =)

**Lance845**

carnifex stock with 2 pairs of scything talons is 87 points it looks. exocrine is 216 with just the canon.

**wyomingfox**

Nevermind. Wow the exocrine went up in points...you sure that is not the Tfex?

**pinecone77**

I am Real happy to see the Carnifex stats...if they hold up, a herd of Twin Scything Carnifexen will be a terror.

I guess Mawloc got smeared" just because" they are so prevelent in the current Meta. But Trygons look better, so it may be a push overall.

I think I'll still want a Mawloc for Gunlines, maybe Two.

But if I can pop up a MC, and a Brood of Stealers instead....I have few complaints.

I don't know abot Zoeys, I guess a "double Smite" is pretty boss...time will tell. I'll need to digest all the changes before I can start madly writting lists though.

The new non formation thing is still not completely clear to me. And the exact benefits of command points as well, is it a "thing" to try spamming them?

I do think the all heavy detachment full of Carnifexen will be a useful building block.

**Tyran**

More Tyranid stuff.
http://imgur.com/a/IY9ks

**Caederes**

Looks like Tyranid monsters bring lots of D6 Damage weapons to the fray, it seems like they are really built for crushing other armies' heavy units now. Even a Tervigon - i.e. a classic support monster - has 3 Strength 14 AP -3 D6 Damage attacks when you take the Massive Crushing Claws, though the -1 to-hit means it does hit on a 5+ even at full health.

Very interesting stuff. I'm actually digging the Mawloc unlike some of you guys, EDIT: oh it's only 2" range, ah, not so good then. It seems like it will only be able to do its special attack twice in a game now as opposed to three times in a game, but the attack could potentially do more damage if your opponent has multiple units near each other. Looks like it will be at least decent in combat in subsequent turns too and is harder to kill than prior, so that's nice.

Also, I find it hilarious that the larger Tyranid monsters now explode...seriously, each one has a similar explodes rule to the tanks we've seen. I think that's great.

But yeah...Tyranid Warriors. Wow. And Shadow in the Warp actually being useful again? What is this, 2003?
I really like the new Zoanthropes, their rules make perfect sense in the new game. They basically do the exact same thing that Magnus does.

**StarHunter25**

Toxicrene might be absolutely deadly. If I'm reading this right, it can tentacle fun in shooting and close combat. Doing 6+d6 ap-1 Dam d3 attacks that reroll to wound. Yeesh.

**N.I.B.**

Caederes wrote:

But yeah...Tyranid Warriors. Wow.

What about them?

**Lance845**

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvfWyoA3o9/

Hive Tyrant.

10 Wounds. Gained a 5++ save. 9" M walking 16" flying.
2+ WS 3+ BS

Wings still do not replace a pair of scything talons. Knows 2 powers + smite and can deny once a turn.

Over all... pretty fething bad ass.

**Polkadragon**

So, do I have this right that you can now mix Tyranids and Genestealer Cult units in the SAME detachment?

Considering:
* Genestealer Cults have BOTH the faction keywords 'Genestealer Cult' and 'Tyranids'
* Detachments state "All units must be from the same Faction"

Awesome if true!

**Lance845**

Polkadragon wrote:
So, do I have this right that you can now mix Tyranids and Genestealer Cult units in the SAME detachment?

Considering:
* Genestealer Cults have BOTH the faction keywords 'Genestealer Cult' and 'Tyranids'
* Detachments state "All units must be from the same Faction"

Awesome if true!

This is true but we don't know what drawback it will have.

Apparently there are benefits to having the entire detachment made up of the more specific faction keyword.

My suspicion is it will be a multiplier for command points. Like... if you fill up a Battalion Detachment (3 command points) and it is filled with only units that are both faction Tyranid and Faction <Hive Fleet>. then you will in fact get 6 command points.

Likewise you could fill that detachment with all Faction Dark Angles and get the same or you could fill it with Imperium and take Sisters of Battle, Dark Angles and Ad Mech and end up with only the 3.

**Tyran**

If you field Tyranids and Cult Genestealer in separate detachements, you can add an Astra Militarum detachement for every Genestealer Cult detachment.

**Timeshadow**

So with our home tyrants having 10w now they are protected as a character now right? If so that's a new layer of protection which will be nice.

**Polkadragon**

Lance845 wrote:
Polkadragon wrote:
So, do I have this right that you can now mix Tyranids and Genestealer Cult units in the SAME detachment?

Considering:
* Genestealer Cults have BOTH the faction keywords 'Genestealer Cult' and 'Tyranids'
* Detachments state "All units must be from the same Faction"

Awesome if true!

This is true but we don't know what drawback it will have.

Apparently there are benefits to having the entire detachment made up of the more specific faction keyword.

My suspicion is it will be a multiplier for command points. Like... if you fill up a Battalion Detachment (3 command points) and it is filled with only units that are both faction Tyranid and Faction <Hive Fleet>. then you will in fact get 6 command points.

Likewise you could fill that detachment with all Faction Dark Angles and get the same or you could fill it with Imperium and take Sisters of Battle, Dark Angles and Ad Mech and end up with only the 3.

Yeah, and also a big one: you lose Cult Ambush if your detachment isn't exclusive to GC :(

**Tyran**

Timeshadow wrote:
So with our home tyrants having 10w now they are protected as a character now right? If so that's a new layer of protection which will be nice.

That only applies to 9 wounds or less.

But you can pass wounds to Tyrant guards on a 2+

**seeg**

Tyran wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
So with our home tyrants having 10w now they are protected as a character now right? If so that's a new layer of protection which will be nice.

That only applies to 9 wounds or less.

But you can pass wounds to Tyrant guards on a 2+

dont freak me out here. didnt the character spotlight say its 10 wounds AND below?

**Tyran**

seeg wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Timeshadow wrote:
So with our home tyrants having 10w now they are protected as a character now right? If so that's a new layer of protection which will be nice.

That only applies to 9 wounds or less.

But you can pass wounds to Tyrant guards on a 2+

dont freak me out here. didnt the character spotlight say its 10 wounds AND below?

If it said that then it is wrong as we have seen the core rules.