Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Frazzled wrote:

You're not a lefty? Is that an insult to you? It would be insulting to a Republican, but not a Democrat.
Are now or have you ever been a member of the Democratic Party?

I realize you're making a joke there, but it's an insult to a person to be pidgeonholed into a category of stereotypes so dismissively. There are many people who would consider being accused of being either an insult, and have political views that include portions of both sides talking points, along with ideas both sides would find repugnant.

The independent is not a myth.

Guns are a product made by private companies, so yes it is a product.
Your ignorance of the law is almost terrifying. There is no product difficulty here. You’re arguing for confiscation under criminal laws. This requires a search warrant and something called probable cause.

That’s Unconstitutional on its face.
Institute that nationwide, ignore the courts, and you just started the second US Civil War.

I think your not familiar with how a lot of recalls work, they would just offer a deadline and incentive to turn in your now illegal self loading weapon and if you didn't you would be in possession of an illegal fire arm.

I think you’re not familiar with how recalls work and what they are for. Again, your ignorance of what you are advocating is breathtaking.
Further recalls don’t permit the federales to kick in your door. There is no criminal law requiring you to bring your car in when there’s a defect. Further, with a recall you don’t give your property to the government.

Say this, go turn in your weapon to the local police department or other collection center and you receive a tax break or a payment equal to the cost of the weapon, thus noone would lose any money by "giving up" the product as it were.

Cities have done that in the past. It does nothing.

And again, please refrain from the "haha look at the fool try to be reasonable or suggest anything"

Your ignorance of what you are proposing did that already.

That point of what I was saying was that I the reason I am not all upset and up in arms about the former SEAL's death is because within my family the sacrifice of death in battle is something that is regarded with respect but is not something to be ultra angry or ultra sad over. It is depressing sure, but if we let everything depressing or angering in our lives get to us we would be naught but emotional wrecks all the time.

Call it grim if you want, I call it recognition that my ancestors died for something worth fighting for and that by debasing ourselves and causing more hatred and anger and death over theirs serves not their memory but to poison it and corrupt it.

And Martian man, if you honestly think me talking about how I respect and honor my ancestors and their sacrifice is "hanging myself with my own words" then let me hang. I don't really mind all your scorn, but don't talk as If I do not regard what my family has sacrificed for this country with pride.

The whole world thinks America has a crazy attitude to guns. I lived in the states for a year working on a farm when I was 19 and couldn't believe how flippantly they treated some of the worlds most dangerous tools.

I met some of the nicest warmest people in america but I and most of the world are saddened by the gun attitude. I think it stems from not having a real war or conflict on your home soil for so long. Lax gun laws are bad news full stop.

Knockagh wrote:
The whole world thinks America has a crazy attitude to guns. I lived in the states for a year working on a farm when I was 19 and couldn't believe how flippantly they treated some of the worlds most dangerous tools.

Examples, por favor.

I met some of the nicest warmest people in america but I and most of the world are saddened by the gun attitude. I think it stems from not having a real war or conflict on your home soil for so long. Lax gun laws are bad news full stop.

I think it stems from the initial war on our home soil.

And our gun laws aren't particularly lax.

Knockagh wrote:
The whole world thinks America has a crazy attitude to guns. I lived in the states for a year working on a farm when I was 19 and couldn't believe how flippantly they treated some of the worlds most dangerous tools.

I met some of the nicest warmest people in america but I and most of the world are saddened by the gun attitude. I think it stems from not having a real war or conflict on your home soil for so long. Lax gun laws are bad news full stop.

Well, sounds like the worlds problem to me. Maybe they should grow tolerant of other's cultures.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
That point of what I was saying was that I the reason I am not all upset and up in arms about the former SEAL's death is because within my family the sacrifice of death in battle is something that is regarded with respect but is not something to be ultra angry or ultra sad over. It is depressing sure, but if we let everything depressing or angering in our lives get to us we would be naught but emotional wrecks all the time.

Call it grim if you want, I call it recognition that my ancestors died for something worth fighting for and that by debasing ourselves and causing more hatred and anger and death over theirs serves not their memory but to poison it and corrupt it.

And Martian man, if you honestly think me talking about how I respect and honor my ancestors and their sacrifice is "hanging myself with my own words" then let me hang. I don't really mind all your scorn, but don't talk as If I do not regard what my family has sacrificed for this country with pride.

In one post you get upset over an obviously distressed woman's comments about you talking about video games, and write a blistering rave telling us we should be pissed at her and have no sympathy for the Benghazi widows.

In the next you make it seem as though you look at soldiers dying as another day at the office.

I think my confusion with your thought process is understandable.

Relapse wrote:


I think my confusion with your thought process is understandable.

Well, give it time. If he actually makes it through BOLC B (or, heaven help us, to the fleet, if he's NROTC), his politics will have done a 180.

Unless he becomes one of those weird intel guys, I guess.

Examples?? I lived near a farmer who owned 2 ak47's. The weapon I grew up with being used to murder innocent people in the streets and bars of my city.
He had an armalite, a weapon that was used to injure a good friend of my fathers who happened to go shopping on the wrong day.
Many of the weapons that fond their way illegally into my country were bought without restriction in the states and shipped here by people who used the lax gun laws to murder innocent civilians. Tragic?

Perhaps may I suggest that the point I was trying to make was not that "War widows deserve no sympathy" but that it is wrong and immoral to use someones death regardless of how close they were to you to purse a political agenda or to cause more anger and distress. That In seeing the people who lost their husband to the tragedy that was Bengazhi push the idea that because their husband's died the fact that I, by playing Video games was destroying this Country was not only offensive to me because she was insulting me but because she was using the death of an Ambassador Stevens, the two Navy seals, and Sean Smith as a platform from which to insult others.

I know its odd to say, but perhaps the fact that I was offended that she would turn peoples deaths into political talking points proves that I regard military sacrifice with respect rather than what you suggest that I "Don't give a gak about soldiers"

Knockagh wrote:
Examples?? I lived near a farmer who owned 2 ak47's. The weapon I grew up with being used to murder innocent people in the streets and bars of my city.
He had an armalite, a weapon that was used to injure a good friend of my fathers who happened to go shopping on the wrong day.
Many of the weapons that fond their way illegally into my country were bought without restriction in the states and shipped here by people who used the lax gun laws to murder innocent civilians. Tragic?

I think you may have misunderstood. I asked for examples of them being treated flippantly, not for examples of ownership.

Unless your contention is that the mere act of ownership is treating them flippantly.

Incidentally, the shipping you're describing? Absolutely illegal. That's not down to lax gun laws, that's down to lax enforcement of laws on the books.

The lax laws allowed a gun go be bought that couldn't be traced using the serial number, it allowed politically motivated terrorists in the states to purchase weapons without the states knowledge and then move them illegally. The law aided the terrorist.
Yes ownership of assault weapons is flippant act.

Knockagh wrote:
Examples?? I lived near a farmer who owned 2 ak47's. The weapon I grew up with being used to murder innocent people in the streets and bars of my city.
He had an armalite, a weapon that was used to injure a good friend of my fathers who happened to go shopping on the wrong day.
Many of the weapons that fond their way illegally into my country were bought without restriction in the states and shipped here by people who used the lax gun laws to murder innocent civilians. Tragic?

The odds of those AKs coming from Libya are a LOT better than them coming from the US (assuming you are referring to their use by the IRA/PIRA.)

And your examples don't really show carless use of dangerous tools, they just show ownership.

Knockagh wrote:
The lax laws allowed a gun go be bought that couldn't be traced using the serial number, it allowed politically motivated terrorists in the states to purchase weapons without the states knowledge and then move them illegally. The law aided the terrorist.

How do you know they were purchased in the States if they couldn't be traced?

Yes ownership of assault weapons is flippant act.

This is an assault weapon. This right here has the ability with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Thirty magazine clip in half a second.

 Alexzandvar wrote:
That point of what I was saying was that I the reason I am not all upset and up in arms about the former SEAL's death is because within my family the sacrifice of death in battle is something that is regarded with respect but is not something to be ultra angry or ultra sad over. It is depressing sure, but if we let everything depressing or angering in our lives get to us we would be naught but emotional wrecks all the time.

Call it grim if you want, I call it recognition that my ancestors died for something worth fighting for and that by debasing ourselves and causing more hatred and anger and death over theirs serves not their memory but to poison it and corrupt it.

And Martian man, if you honestly think me talking about how I respect and honor my ancestors and their sacrifice is "hanging myself with my own words" then let me hang. I don't really mind all your scorn, but don't talk as If I do not regard what my family has sacrificed for this country with pride.

Hey Allie:

Not all of us have forgotten our oaths.

Wish you understood yours (or not yet maybe, have you contracted yet ? God I hope not).

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Perhaps may I suggest that the point I was trying to make was not that "War widows deserve no sympathy" but that it is wrong and immoral to use someones death regardless of how close they were to you to purse a political agenda or to cause more anger and distress. That In seeing the people who lost their husband to the tragedy that was Bengazhi push the idea that because their husband's died the fact that I, by playing Video games was destroying this Country was not only offensive to me because she was insulting me but because she was using the death of an Ambassador Stevens, the two Navy seals, and Sean Smith as a platform from which to insult others.

I know its odd to say, but perhaps the fact that I was offended that she would turn peoples deaths into political talking points proves that I regard military sacrifice with respect rather than what you suggest that I "Don't give a gak about soldiers"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you got pissed at a woman who just lost her husband in a horrific way because someone's wife got offended at the fact you were talking about a video game you were playing at his memorial? It seems to me there is far more to the story than is being told here, and I wish I had the chance to hear what her side of the incident was.

 Seaward wrote:

Relapse wrote:


I think my confusion with your thought process is understandable.

Well, give it time. If he actually makes it through BOLC B (or, heaven help us, to the fleet, if he's NROTC), his politics will have done a 180.

Unless he becomes one of those weird intel guys, I guess.

I'm in Army ROTC actually, and I went to basic the summer after I graduated in high school as part of the program I'm in.

I find it interesting you seem to think that the military breeds only conservatives when both Hillary and Obama had an group that worked with them that was comprised of general and admirals that helped democratic candidates.

So already your assertion the military would turn me "conservative" as it were is debunked, not to mention your assertion that intel guys are weird seems funny because my father worked air force intelligence in Vietnam (He was however stationed in the Philippines since the air force didn't station units who preformed covert ops in Vietnam itself.) He flew missions into Cambodia and the North and he is in fact: a democrat.


Real talk here Seaward, you would be much easier to get along with if you didn't generalize people so much, not every democrat is a hippie who loves Apple and can't wait to steal your money.

Hell, I like old establishment Republicans like Eisenhower and Nixon.

 Seaward wrote:

Knockagh wrote:
The lax laws allowed a gun go be bought that couldn't be traced using the serial number, it allowed politically motivated terrorists in the states to purchase weapons without the states knowledge and then move them illegally. The law aided the terrorist.

How do you know they were purchased in the States if they couldn't be traced?

Yes ownership of assault weapons is flippant act.

This is an assault weapon. This right here has the ability with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Thirty magazine clip in half a second.

American people were tried and convicted of aiding Irish terrorists many times and of the specific crimes of arms smuggling, but many terrorist shipments got through the graveyards of my country are testament to it.

I shoot myself I have a 12 gauge shotgun I need on the farm and an .22 air rifle I use for target shooting. All ammunition I must purchase and be recorded on my licence. My guns are inspected regularly in my home by police officers as are all licensed gun holders weapons. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

Relapse wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Perhaps may I suggest that the point I was trying to make was not that "War widows deserve no sympathy" but that it is wrong and immoral to use someones death regardless of how close they were to you to purse a political agenda or to cause more anger and distress. That In seeing the people who lost their husband to the tragedy that was Bengazhi push the idea that because their husband's died the fact that I, by playing Video games was destroying this Country was not only offensive to me because she was insulting me but because she was using the death of an Ambassador Stevens, the two Navy seals, and Sean Smith as a platform from which to insult others.

I know its odd to say, but perhaps the fact that I was offended that she would turn peoples deaths into political talking points proves that I regard military sacrifice with respect rather than what you suggest that I "Don't give a gak about soldiers"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you got pissed at a woman who just lost her husband in a horrific way because someone's wife got offended at the fact you were talking about a video game you were playing at his memorial? It seems to me there is far more to the story than is being told here, and I wish I had the chance to hear what her side of the incident was.

I said that, on the other side of the room, after the memorial while everyone was eating and speaking I quietly mentioned to my father what I would do when I get come. I wasn't loudly announcing my intentions I wasn't attempting to inform anyone other than the person standing right next to me of what I was going to do when I got home.

During the actual memorial outside I was standing silently about 20 feet away from the seating, and would have been incapable of discussing anything with anyone as I was standing by myself with my trumpet.

She also stood up and made her announcement about her dislike of video games and how she hated facebook, and other things ect. The point of all my original posts you seemed to have missed was that I don't think it is right to use soldiers death for political gain regardless of political allegiance.

. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

Thats because you're not doing it right.

I'll be honest. I can't understand the rest of what you typed. Your accent is coming through.

 Alexzandvar wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Perhaps may I suggest that the point I was trying to make was not that "War widows deserve no sympathy" but that it is wrong and immoral to use someones death regardless of how close they were to you to purse a political agenda or to cause more anger and distress. That In seeing the people who lost their husband to the tragedy that was Bengazhi push the idea that because their husband's died the fact that I, by playing Video games was destroying this Country was not only offensive to me because she was insulting me but because she was using the death of an Ambassador Stevens, the two Navy seals, and Sean Smith as a platform from which to insult others.

I know its odd to say, but perhaps the fact that I was offended that she would turn peoples deaths into political talking points proves that I regard military sacrifice with respect rather than what you suggest that I "Don't give a gak about soldiers"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you got pissed at a woman who just lost her husband in a horrific way because someone's wife got offended at the fact you were talking about a video game you were playing at his memorial? It seems to me there is far more to the story than is being told here, and I wish I had the chance to hear what her side of the incident was.

I said that, on the other side of the room, after the memorial while everyone was eating and speaking I quietly mentioned to my father what I would do when I get come. I wasn't loudly announcing my intentions I wasn't attempting to inform anyone other than the person standing right next to me of what I was going to do when I got home.

During the actual memorial outside I was standing silently about 20 feet away from the seating, and would have been incapable of discussing anything with anyone as I was standing by myself with my trumpet.

She also stood up and made her announcement about her dislike of video games and how she hated facebook, and other things ect. The point of all my original posts you seemed to have missed was that I don't think it is right to use soldiers death for political gain regardless of political allegiance.

How did she then hear you, if you were talking quietly on the other side of the room?

She has super hearing after being bitten by a radioactive rabbit.

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
That point of what I was saying was that I the reason I am not all upset and up in arms about the former SEAL's death is because within my family the sacrifice of death in battle is something that is regarded with respect but is not something to be ultra angry or ultra sad over. It is depressing sure, but if we let everything depressing or angering in our lives get to us we would be naught but emotional wrecks all the time.

Call it grim if you want, I call it recognition that my ancestors died for something worth fighting for and that by debasing ourselves and causing more hatred and anger and death over theirs serves not their memory but to poison it and corrupt it.

And Martian man, if you honestly think me talking about how I respect and honor my ancestors and their sacrifice is "hanging myself with my own words" then let me hang. I don't really mind all your scorn, but don't talk as If I do not regard what my family has sacrificed for this country with pride.

Hey Allie:

Not all of us have forgotten our oaths.

Wish you understood yours (or not yet maybe, have you contracted yet ? God I hope not).

Yes I have contracted, 4 year ROTC scholarship .

And what oaths do you speak of? I'm interested to know how in discussing the restriction/allowance of fire arms I am breaking an oath.

To be fair I don't really think the best way to get your point across is insults and implications I am unfit for military service, one of the big reason the Republican Party is losing ground is that insults and bad implications are not a good way to sell a point/political platform/idea

 Frazzled wrote:

. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

Thats because you're not doing it right.

I'll be honest. I can't understand the rest of what you typed. Your accent is coming through.

Agreed. Spent several hours on Sunday firing an AR-10, 12g Shotgun, and a .40 Smith and Wesson.

It was all for fun.

Relapse wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Perhaps may I suggest that the point I was trying to make was not that "War widows deserve no sympathy" but that it is wrong and immoral to use someones death regardless of how close they were to you to purse a political agenda or to cause more anger and distress. That In seeing the people who lost their husband to the tragedy that was Bengazhi push the idea that because their husband's died the fact that I, by playing Video games was destroying this Country was not only offensive to me because she was insulting me but because she was using the death of an Ambassador Stevens, the two Navy seals, and Sean Smith as a platform from which to insult others.

I know its odd to say, but perhaps the fact that I was offended that she would turn peoples deaths into political talking points proves that I regard military sacrifice with respect rather than what you suggest that I "Don't give a gak about soldiers"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you got pissed at a woman who just lost her husband in a horrific way because someone's wife got offended at the fact you were talking about a video game you were playing at his memorial? It seems to me there is far more to the story than is being told here, and I wish I had the chance to hear what her side of the incident was.

I said that, on the other side of the room, after the memorial while everyone was eating and speaking I quietly mentioned to my father what I would do when I get come. I wasn't loudly announcing my intentions I wasn't attempting to inform anyone other than the person standing right next to me of what I was going to do when I got home.

During the actual memorial outside I was standing silently about 20 feet away from the seating, and would have been incapable of discussing anything with anyone as I was standing by myself with my trumpet.

She also stood up and made her announcement about her dislike of video games and how she hated facebook, and other things ect. The point of all my original posts you seemed to have missed was that I don't think it is right to use soldiers death for political gain regardless of political allegiance.

How did she then hear you, if you were talking quietly on the other side of the room?

I never said she heard me, although I do not discount that did because sometimes I talk louder than I think I do and the room wasn't all that big, but that she went on I tirade about video games and social media in general.

I probably took what she was saying to everyone more personally then I should have, but her way of using her dead husband as a political platform still upset me.

I recommend a trip over over to the Something Awful forums, Sean Smith was an avid poster over there and the way his death has been twisted makes them very upset about it.

 Rotary wrote:
Man, i wish my gun had a 30 caliber clip.

Buy an M1 Garand.

 Alexzandvar wrote:

 Spacemanvic wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
That point of what I was saying was that I the reason I am not all upset and up in arms about the former SEAL's death is because within my family the sacrifice of death in battle is something that is regarded with respect but is not something to be ultra angry or ultra sad over. It is depressing sure, but if we let everything depressing or angering in our lives get to us we would be naught but emotional wrecks all the time.

Call it grim if you want, I call it recognition that my ancestors died for something worth fighting for and that by debasing ourselves and causing more hatred and anger and death over theirs serves not their memory but to poison it and corrupt it.

And Martian man, if you honestly think me talking about how I respect and honor my ancestors and their sacrifice is "hanging myself with my own words" then let me hang. I don't really mind all your scorn, but don't talk as If I do not regard what my family has sacrificed for this country with pride.

Hey Allie:

Not all of us have forgotten our oaths.

Wish you understood yours (or not yet maybe, have you contracted yet ? God I hope not).

Yes I have contracted, 4 year ROTC scholarship .

And what oaths do you speak of? I'm interested to know how in discussing the restriction/allowance of fire arms I am breaking an oath.

To be fair I don't really think the best way to get your point across is insults and implications I am unfit for military service, one of the big reason the Republican Party is losing ground is that insults and bad implications are not a good way to sell a point/political platform/idea

Said the kettle. Time to do a gut check Allie.

 djones520 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

Thats because you're not doing it right.

I'll be honest. I can't understand the rest of what you typed. Your accent is coming through.

Agreed. Spent several hours on Sunday firing an AR-10, 12g Shotgun, and a .40 Smith and Wesson.

It was all for fun.

'Murrica!

Knockagh wrote:

I shoot myself I have a 12 gauge shotgun I need on the farm and an .22 air rifle I use for target shooting. All ammunition I must purchase and be recorded on my licence. My guns are inspected regularly in my home by police officers as are all licensed gun holders weapons. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

So, your job is to End Life. I guess it is good work if you can get it.


I'm amazed that a life taker such as yourself is happy with police regularly coming into your home to inspect your private property. Really is a difference in cultures.

Now in the off chance your job is not to actually End Life, and instead it is to protect property/livestock, then your tool allows you to do so. So now we are looking at the tool as a means to protect life and property, which is the way many of us view the tool. The action of taking a life in the accomplishment of that protection really does not take away the fact that the goal is indeed protection.

 djones520 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

. My shotgun is a tool I need to do my job it's not a toy or a source of amusement, it is what it is a weapon designed to end life.

Thats because you're not doing it right.

I'll be honest. I can't understand the rest of what you typed. Your accent is coming through.

Agreed. Spent several hours on Sunday firing an AR-10, 12g Shotgun, and a .40 Smith and Wesson.

It was all for fun.

I shot a qualifier. Boring as hell. But I did pick up my new shotgun on the way home.