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Since there is a lack of information, I want to elucidate the reasons that Mortarion turned to chaos. Morty was not an 'asshat'. In fact, he's probably the most forgivable of all of the traitor primarchs.

A lot of this is based off the HH story before the book series came out and started changing everything. Since the new HH series has almost completely ignored Mortarion, I'm assuming that this has not been changed.

Mortarion grew up on a world oppressed by vampiric overlords who preyed upon innocent humans trying to eek out a living beneath the poisoned clouds. When he realized what was happening, he lead a rebellion and freed humanity from their oppression. Mortarion was an egalitarian and a utopian thinker. He joined the Emperor and made it his personal mission to free humanity from oppression and tyrany wherever it was found. He envisioned an Empire of humanity guided by reason and egalitarian values.

Mortarion was far from charismatic. He was dour and often sullen. He had a rough upbringing. Mortarion was one of the last primarchs to be found. Soon after he was discovered, the Emperor returned to Terra and put Horus in charge. Mortarion had very little face time with the Emperor before he was left alone with his brothers. By that time, many of the other primarchs had earned their laurels. Mortarion was not a tactical genious nor did he have any particular trait that made him a great leader. All he had was preternatural endurance and boundless compassion.

His lack of charisma and ability left him to be looked down upon by many of his brothers. Some of the prouder ones like Guilliman, Dorn, Khan and Fulgrim refused to deign to talk to him. Mortarion found friendship with only three other primarchs; Horus who knew the value of Mortarion and his legion, Sanguinius who was just by all accounts a nice guy, and the Night Haunter who was also shunned by many of his brothers and a utopian thinker in his own way.

Horus is turned to chaos and the warrior lodges begin to proliferate. Mortarion likes the idea of the warrior lodges because of their egalitarian nature and encourages them in his legion.

Horus begins to determine who will side with him and who will likely be his enemy. Horus is really busy. He sends Kurze, who is Mortarion's best friend, to talk to him and earn his allegiance. Kurze uses Mortarion's egalitarian values and compassion to gain his support for Horus. Mortarion doesn't know about the whole Chaos angle yet. Kurze uses the Emperor's past against him, reminding Mortarion of how the Emperor does business. Worlds that fall noncompliant are utterly eviscerated. Kurze knows this because he is the one the Emperor sends to punish noncompliant worlds. Kurze tells Mortarion that he has seen glimpses of the future of the Imperium and it's crushing heirarchy, trillions in slavery, innocents slaughtered in the name of order, etc... Kurze says that Horus is rebelling to save humanity from the bloodthirsty and power hungry Emperor. If Mortarion joins Horus, a man whose door had always been open to him, he will have influence to ensure that humanity remains free from oppression. Mortarion is convinced and joins the rebellion. The primarchs who remained loyal looked down on him. Those that he joined in rebellion embraced him as a brother. Mortarion was driven away from the Emperor by his fellow primarchs and drawn into the arms of Horus because of his own compassion.

Mortarion and the Death Guard were rebels but not chaos cultists, until Calais Typhon killed all the navigators and lead the Death Guard fleet into a trap. Mortarion sold his soul to Nurgle to save the lives of his men. The Destroyer Hive was going to exterminate his legion but Mortarion called out for help. Nurgle answered and Mortarion pledged eternal servitude so that his men might survive. Again, Mortarion is damned by his own compassion.

This aspect of Mortarion, of the compassionate yet naive primarch led into damnation because he wanted to save humanity from suffering, is what got me into the Death Guard to begin with.

That doesn't make him not an asshat though.

Oh, he had a hard life? Oh, no one liked him? Big deal. He has my sympathy, but he's still a murdering scumbag who slaughtered trillions of innocents.

The only way any of the traitor Primarchs could be considered "forgivable" for turning against the Imperium is if their only acts of rebellion had been to pack their bags and simply leave. You don't like the Imperium? Go to the other side of the Galaxy and start your own little Empire, or something. Hell, even go to the Eye of Terror if you'd like. But there's nothing the Imperium or the loyal Primarchs did that justifies what the traitor Legions did during the Heresy. They're all butchers.


On the aside, you keep mentioning compassion, yet nothing in your recollection of events implies that he was a compassionate individual. He was a freedom fighter who hated tyranny, but that doesn't make him a compassionate individual. Vulkan and his Salamanders had compassion. Mortarion had zero compunction with putting entire civilizations, much less worlds to the sword, and he had no problem with throwing his own men into meat-grinders. It's noted that the Death Guard had one of the highest casualty rates in the Great Crusade, and that's not because they always got the dirtiest jobs, it's because that was just Mortarion's method of War. He didn't care about casualties, and his tactics in most fights was to simply throw his men at the problem until it went away. Not exactly compassionate.

Was this compassion thing explicitly stated anywhere? It's news to me ^^; I mean, it'd be fitting for someone who eventually ends up in Nurgle's grasp to be compassion since that's what Nurgle is, but I never really got that vibe from Mortarion. But it's not like I read every Index Astartes article (I did read a few though and never saw compassion brought up about Mortarion but I'm sure I missed a lot)

Mortarion's legion did indeed have the the highest casualty rate of any of the legions during the Great Crusade, but not because Mortarion callously tossed his men's lives away.

Mortarion's troops were called the Death Guard. That was the name that his group of rebels were given on Barbarus when fighting against their vampiric overlords. The reason is that when a man joins the Death Guard, he dies. His life is already over. He is a hero and has given his life for his fellow man. They didn't expect to come back and this is why they were so courageous and willing to fight on through terrible injury and when defeat and death seemed inevitable. They were the Death Korps of Kreig before there was a DKoK, but they were Astartes.

Horus was very aware of the rugged determination of the Death Guard and that is precisely why he selected Mortarion and his legion to fight so closely with the Luna Wolves. The Death Guard were sent in first to pin down the enemy and force them to commit. Then the Luna Wolves would assess the situation and attack with their specialist troops to break the enemy. Basically, the Death Guard were being used as cannon fodder so the glory boy Luna Wolves could win the day against a tired foe with relatively few casualties. Mortarion wasn't really capable of creating complex strategic plans and had the theater been left to Mortarion alone the butcher's bill for victory would likely have been much higher on all sides. Horus was also aware that the scions of Mortarion had inherited his innate ability to survive in hostile and toxic environments. The Death Guard had a fully functional geneseed and many of the organs that dealt with survival were hyperactive. Whenever war had to be conducted in a toxic or hostile environment, the Death Guard were the ones sent in. Between acting as cannon fodder for the Luna Wolves and pulling hazard duty every single time it comes up, it's no wonder the Death Guard had such a high casualty rate.

This isn't to say that Mortarion enjoyed seeing his men die. Although is strategic acumen wasn't up to the level of the other primarchs, he wasn't a fool. Mortarion went to the Adeptus Mechanicus and requested better armor for his men, and the AdMech did what they could. Some of the advances in power armor that eventually filtered througout all of the Astartes were created by a partnership between Mortarion, his Death Guard and the Adeptus Mechanicus. The most famous among these is Tactical Dreadnought Armor, which was developed from the hazard suits the AdMech used for performing repairs on the highly radioactive sections of plasma engines and warp drives. These suits were developed at the behest of Mortarion specifically to protect his troops when they were clearing Space Hulks, another vital yet extremely dangerous mission that the Death Guard were most often called in to perform. Although every legion was issued tactical dreadnought armor, the Death Guard received many times the number of suits as the other legions because they were engaging in the riskiest types of missions, the kind that TDA was designed for, and he was active in continuing development with the AdMech for improved Terminator suits.

I think you're missing the point on why Mortarion is probably the most forgivable. He did go on LATER to butcher trillions in the name of Grandfather Nurgle, but at the time he turned he really believed he was doing the right thing. He was tricked. The three choices he had before him, based on the information he had at the time, were: 1) Join his close friends in rebelling against a blodthirsty and power mad Emperor 2) Join a bunch of Primarchs who dislike him in the support of a bloodthirsty and power mad Emperor 3) abandon his friends, lead his legion into self exile and leave humanity to fend for itself. Which seems like the obvious choice to make here? Making the choice he made doesn't make him an asshat. It was the wrong choice to make, but as they say "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Compassion is my word. He rebelled against his father and lead them to freedom from his depredations at the risk of his own life. He joined the Emperor in his quest to bring truth and light to humanity and save humans everywhere from tyranny of every kind. He was instrumental in developing superior armor in order to save the lives of Astartes. Then he joined Horus because he thought that the Emperor was a tyrant and wanted to save humanity from him. He traded in his soul to Nurgle to save the lives of his legion. Everything he did up until that point was to protect the weak from the strong. I think that was due to compassion. I don't know what else it could have been.

After Nurgle got his grips on him, all bets are off... but still, Nurgle is by far the most compassionate of all of the dark gods.

godking wrote:



I mostly agree with your views on Perturabo but other then Dorn who of his brothers did he really have a conflict with ? From Angel Exterminatus Perturabo while brilliant is stubborn aloof and hard to befriend but not exactly a pariah. Guilliman Ferrus and Vulkan had no issues with him Magnus was his friend. The lion had no personal beef with him. There where no issues between Perturabo and Fulgrim before the heresy. He was taken for granted by his brothers thats not the same as them gaking on everything that he did.

I think it was Khan and Russ who refused to give him due credit when he came up with the plan to best evade and penetrate the defenses of some Ork Warlord who was giving them a lot trouble and a headache to go with referring to Perturabo as only, "the comrade."

Yes a lot of the traitor primarchs have sad upbringings and I feel sorry for them, but in my opinion there's nothing that could possible justify the drop site massacre. Rebelling and fighting for what you feel is right, and what you believe in is one thing, But istvaan was unforgivable.

Alpharius and Omegon are not traitors, they've infiltrated Chaos.

Alpahrius chose the 3rd option, both sides lose. Humanity lives, but so does Chaos. He basically made it so Humanity and Chaos could be stalemated for all eternity.

 Warmaster Phthisis wrote:
Since there is a lack of information, I want to elucidate the reasons that Mortarion turned to chaos. Morty was not an 'asshat'. In fact, he's probably the most forgivable of all of the traitor primarchs.

A lot of this is based off the HH story before the book series came out and started changing everything. Since the new HH series has almost completely ignored Mortarion, I'm assuming that this has not been changed.

Mortarion grew up on a world oppressed by vampiric overlords who preyed upon innocent humans trying to eek out a living beneath the poisoned clouds. When he realized what was happening, he lead a rebellion and freed humanity from their oppression. Mortarion was an egalitarian and a utopian thinker. He joined the Emperor and made it his personal mission to free humanity from oppression and tyrany wherever it was found. He envisioned an Empire of humanity guided by reason and egalitarian values.

Mortarion was far from charismatic. He was dour and often sullen. He had a rough upbringing. Mortarion was one of the last primarchs to be found. Soon after he was discovered, the Emperor returned to Terra and put Horus in charge. Mortarion had very little face time with the Emperor before he was left alone with his brothers. By that time, many of the other primarchs had earned their laurels. Mortarion was not a tactical genious nor did he have any particular trait that made him a great leader. All he had was preternatural endurance and boundless compassion.

His lack of charisma and ability left him to be looked down upon by many of his brothers. Some of the prouder ones like Guilliman, Dorn, Khan and Fulgrim refused to deign to talk to him. Mortarion found friendship with only three other primarchs; Horus who knew the value of Mortarion and his legion, Sanguinius who was just by all accounts a nice guy, and the Night Haunter who was also shunned by many of his brothers and a utopian thinker in his own way.

Horus is turned to chaos and the warrior lodges begin to proliferate. Mortarion likes the idea of the warrior lodges because of their egalitarian nature and encourages them in his legion.

Horus begins to determine who will side with him and who will likely be his enemy. Horus is really busy. He sends Kurze, who is Mortarion's best friend, to talk to him and earn his allegiance. Kurze uses Mortarion's egalitarian values and compassion to gain his support for Horus. Mortarion doesn't know about the whole Chaos angle yet. Kurze uses the Emperor's past against him, reminding Mortarion of how the Emperor does business. Worlds that fall noncompliant are utterly eviscerated. Kurze knows this because he is the one the Emperor sends to punish noncompliant worlds. Kurze tells Mortarion that he has seen glimpses of the future of the Imperium and it's crushing heirarchy, trillions in slavery, innocents slaughtered in the name of order, etc... Kurze says that Horus is rebelling to save humanity from the bloodthirsty and power hungry Emperor. If Mortarion joins Horus, a man whose door had always been open to him, he will have influence to ensure that humanity remains free from oppression. Mortarion is convinced and joins the rebellion. The primarchs who remained loyal looked down on him. Those that he joined in rebellion embraced him as a brother. Mortarion was driven away from the Emperor by his fellow primarchs and drawn into the arms of Horus because of his own compassion.

Mortarion and the Death Guard were rebels but not chaos cultists, until Calais Typhon killed all the navigators and lead the Death Guard fleet into a trap. Mortarion sold his soul to Nurgle to save the lives of his men. The Destroyer Hive was going to exterminate his legion but Mortarion called out for help. Nurgle answered and Mortarion pledged eternal servitude so that his men might survive. Again, Mortarion is damned by his own compassion.

This aspect of Mortarion, of the compassionate yet naive primarch led into damnation because he wanted to save humanity from suffering, is what got me into the Death Guard to begin with.

To be honest, this kinda sounds more like what GW/BL should do with Mortarion if they ever decide to flesh him out rather than what fluff actually exists for him (IE, it's great and doesn't contradict but I don't think it's proven to be the case either). If they ever do decide to flesh Mortarion out, your synopsis of him would be a rather fantastic way of doing it, but as far as I'm aware, the actual Mortarion (be it studio or BL fluff) can only be speculated at to possibly be this.

Of course, there's always the possibility that there's an official index astartes article or whatever else that really does go into Mortarion like that and I never read it.