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3 guardsmen v 5 conscripts FRFSRF 12 to 24" range.

6 shots bs3=3 hits or 4.5 with prescience.

10 shots at bs2=3.333hits or 5.5 with prescience.

Conscripts outshoot guardsmen when it comes to frfsrf.

Their weakness is they need to be near or with a commissar/lord commissar. If a list has Yarick anyways conscripts are a solid purchase.

Conscripts also have the chance to beef up your numbers so that you might actually have infantry on the table at the end of the game if you're trying to do anything other than hide behind an aegis.

I'm not 100% on them either, mostly because the conscripts themselves can only sort of handle... well, a decent range of targets, but not a comprehensive amount. My biggest concern is that they look scary, but the moment your opponent can handle them by just ignoring them for a while, well, that makes me think twice.

schadenfreude wrote:LD5 stubborn is better than fearless because failure=execution auto pass=1-2 opponent picks a conscript 3-6 you pick a conscript. Well worth being able to g2g.

Lol. No! NO! Don't pick Johnny! There are 40 other conscripts to choose from. NO! NOOOOOOO!!!!!

JOHNNY!!!!!

Anyways, why would you want conscripts to go to ground? The point of conscripts is moving forward. If you want something that's just going to hide behind an aegis, other squads are better because they can actually do stuff other than just cower.

 Ailaros wrote:
Dare I say it, support units are support units?

It's really easy to overdo it with options and extras with guard. Generally it's better to just take more stuff than to try and buff the stuff you have. This principle is weakened slightly now that we have better buffers, but it didn't go away.

For all the talk of a lvl 2 primaris giving prescience to a blob, it overlooks the fact that you're approaching the cost of just buying 2 more PISs, which is nearly always going to be better.

You're also adding 3-4 S4 AP2 attacks to that blob from the force axe he's going to take. And you can take him as Biomancy/Divination and use the Biomancy primaris for 4 more S4 AP2 shooting attacks. I think the problem is if you hide them all the way in the back and use them only as support characters, they're not going to be worth it. If it's a conscript, blob, don't bother buffing them much. Conscript blobs work better as a tarpit or as ablative wounds for some ICs that can do stuff (like the aforementioned psyker)... just make sure he's like 5 inches back when the fight starts and piles in 3" to be within 2" of a guy in base to base and you're in no danger of him being assigned wounds first.

And once again, it matters what you're casting prescience on. Presciencing a couple of lascannons isn't really worth it, and prescience gets worse the higher the BS of the model.

I disagree. Prescience on 5 BS3 lascannons is about 25pts. per turn extra lascannons worth. Pays for himself in 3 turns not counting his second power. Now, prescience on 5 lascannons that have been ordered to bring it down makes them just good enough to take down some AV13-4 things in one round of fire (assuming no cover). Without both those buffs, you're just not getting the concentration of fire you need. Even if you buy more lascannons, there's no guarantee that they'll also have LoS on the same target.

But I suppose there's a decent argument to be made that an inquisitor is better if all you want is the prescience. For 5 points more you get a better armor save, better Ld (which makes him a lot more reliable) and also buffs the squad better, and an extra wound. You also get the option to pay 8 points to give him 3+ or servo skulls for 3pts each which will help your Master of Ordnance hit something close to what he was aiming for or deep strike in your scions.

So troop mobility... How do AM get to or take mid-to-back field objectives?

Ally in Raven Guard, attach a cheap HQ to your blob to allow them to outflank, (I really, want to try this at some point).

'm not 100% on them either, mostly because the conscripts themselves can only sort of handle... well, a decent range of targets, but not a comprehensive amount. My biggest concern is that they look scary, but the moment your opponent can handle them by just ignoring them for a while, well, that makes me think twice.

Honestly, I think conscripts belong in melee. Against WS4, WS2 or WS3 is the same. They have the same S and die equally easily, but cost 40% less. Regular guardsmen can also take special and heavy weapons that you don't want tied up in melee.

I agree with Ailaros, im going to give my 40 strong block of conscripts a priest. 145 pts? 41 fearless models? honestly i dont care if they all die as long as they tie some shotting up or even assault a deathstar so the rest of my force can get better positioning. and if they make it to an objective, your guna have bad time killing ALL of them while i pelt you with autocannon/lascannon

What about Deathstrike missile? Using 3 of them might be scary.
After launching rocket it can be used as vehicle with HB (or flamer) and machinegun
3 Deathstrikes + camo + stubber + firebarrels = 570 pts

I get that people really dig Conscripts, but I can't bring myself to take them, I'd rather take regular Guardsmen. Are regular Guardsmen from a IS really that much worse? I saw the Math above and its quite clear that they are worse when Prescience'd for their points cost. I know that lower points cost means more bodies means more map control means more redundancy, but I just don't love conscripts.

Is it just me?

Allying Scions could be fun, someone mentionned using them to threaten the enemy backfield, but having them score is even more threatning I'd say.

A 25 pts Commissar tax really isn't much to deal with to be able to do that, I think.

 Sparkadia wrote:
I get that people really dig Conscripts, but I can't bring myself to take them, I'd rather take regular Guardsmen. Are regular Guardsmen from a IS really that much worse? I saw the Math above and its quite clear that they are worse when Prescience'd for their points cost. I know that lower points cost means more bodies means more map control means more redundancy, but I just don't love conscripts.

Is it just me?

Guardsmen if you want to give them some special/heavy weapons or split out the squads so you can have more scoring units. (Remember when they're split you can only lose 10 at a time, also they can hold multiple objectives, but they become a lot harder to prescience or order around then.)

 Sparkadia wrote:
I get that people really dig Conscripts, but I can't bring myself to take them, I'd rather take regular Guardsmen. Are regular Guardsmen from a IS really that much worse? I saw the Math above and its quite clear that they are worse when Prescience'd for their points cost. I know that lower points cost means more bodies means more map control means more redundancy, but I just don't love conscripts.

Is it just me?

Conscripts are an excellent way to apply pressure at multiple points on the map, fearless/stubborn mobs advancing on objectives are /look daunting.

Problem is you have to buy platoons in order to have them (<--- yes, If I could it would be conscripts/commissars with LRMBTs all around)

Its not that the PIS is BAD. they are still great. Its just conscripts do about the same, for less points.

The only bad thing in the platoon set up is heavy weapon squads, which are crap.

 Comrade wrote:

 Sparkadia wrote:
I get that people really dig Conscripts, but I can't bring myself to take them, I'd rather take regular Guardsmen. Are regular Guardsmen from a IS really that much worse? I saw the Math above and its quite clear that they are worse when Prescience'd for their points cost. I know that lower points cost means more bodies means more map control means more redundancy, but I just don't love conscripts.

Is it just me?

Conscripts are an excellent way to apply pressure at multiple points on the map, fearless/stubborn mobs advancing on objectives are /look daunting.

Problem is you have to buy platoons in order to have them (<--- yes, If I could it would be conscripts/commissars with LRMBTs all around)

Its not that the PIS is BAD. they are still great. Its just conscripts do about the same, for less points.

The only bad thing in the platoon set up is heavy weapon squads, which are crap.

Precisely . To me, the Platoon infantry squad is like tofu, if you know how to use it, you can do many many things with it.
veterans are an even more focused variation of guardsmen so im guna call them apples. there good for you, is part of a balanced meal, but one alone wont save the day or nothing
now conscripts on the other hand...... they are like peanuts, there not for everyone, can be a ton of fun ( every had a peanut fight? ) but you definitely can have too many of them, but the best part is
if you spill them all and they get all dirty to the point were you dont wana eat them anymore...its ok.....there just peanuts

im sorry if im bugging anyone. ive had one to many scotch's and im feeling glorious

Ill always take Veterans since I get BS4 Guardsmen for only 10pts. more then regular Guardsmen, and the fact it fits the fluff of my Airborne Army much better to have Veterans.

I missed the Commissar change somehow. I didn't realize the execution was an autopass. I think I'd still rather have a Priest, though. The re-rolls and IC status are pretty great, and I don't think Going to Ground is really a thing I'm going to want my Conscripts to do. If you plan on giving them orders, I suppose the Commissar is a better option also. I guess Commissars don't give up a kill point when killed (not an independent character), so that's a pretty compelling argument.

Also, I don't see how people aren't excited the Conscript-Priest (or -Commissar) combination. You're going to want something to advance on a midfield or further objective, 3 point per model dudes that are as good in close combat as regular guardsmen are perfect for the job. It's also perfect for anti-deathstar duty. I don't think you'll find 115 points that will outfight a unit of 30 conscripts + Priest.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Allying Scions could be fun, someone mentionned using them to threaten the enemy backfield, but having them score is even more threatning I'd say.

A 25 pts Commissar tax really isn't much to deal with to be able to do that, I think.

One thing worth mentioning is that MT and AM Commissars do not work on the other codex's units, as both need the unit to be from the same codex to execute. I think that a Scion command squad is a good buy anyway, that sniper order is awesome.

Yeah if you're getting conscripts its not for shooting. You're buying them as bubble wrap, bullet sponges, a tarpit, or an objective holder/IC wound counter. I personally wouldn't hold an objective with them when I have perfectly good platoons laying around, but I'm sure some wont pass up a 175pt ld 9 stubborn scoring unit with 51 models. They're the ultimate expendable unit. Why bother wasting perfectly good platoons when you can send conscripts instead? Using them for the nasty work frees up your vets and platoons to do the important stuff where their extra equipment and BS can shine.

As a foot guard guy, I'll probably be using a bit of everything. A platoon or two with conscripts for each, then fill out my FOC with dirt cheap carapace vets and then ally in some stormtroopers for gaks and giggles. Maybe I'll even try that SWS sniper squad thing. Basically I'll just overwhelm the enemy in scoring units with a bunch of tank support as gravy.

An aritcle I put together on AM troops, taking a lot of stuff from discussion in this thread:
http://antorsfinest.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/spotlight-on-astra-militarium-troops.html

Might be helpful/interesting. If anyone has anything to add, or if I've missed something, then let me know and I'll edit it.

Pretty good overview. Does the Grenadiers doctrine really give Vets Krak Grenades in addition to their Carapace Armor? Did I completely miss that before?

Other notes:
You might want to hit on the difference in survivability between Commissar's and Priests.

You probably want to talk about Heavy Weapon Teams. They haven't changed much, and they're still not very good, but you should mention them. The only real new things you can do with them are adding Commissars. If you had two platoons and your CCS, you could make three lascannon teams Leadership 9 for 25 points each. This is still a pretty good lascannon per point ratio, and lets them make good use of orders, but doesn't really solve the durability issue.

We haven't discussed this yet, either, but there might be something to massed SWS, maybe 3 platoons, 6 infantry squads, and 9 SWS. You'd have a lot of short-range power for cheap, and it would be very difficult to take them all down. You'd have these deathstar lists struggling to dent your army at all because they just couldn't kill stuff that fast.

I'm pretty sure Grenadiers gives Kraks, but don't have the codex on me to check. If anyone could answer, that'd be great as I can edit it faster.

The reason I only touched on the Commissars/Priests debate is that I'm planning to do a separate article on the various support options both in and outside of the codex, so I'll look at it in more detail there.

I'll edit in a mention of the HWTs, I omitted them as I was more focusing on the changes rather than stuff that stayed the same, which HWTs basically did.

Mass-SWS seems interesting, but I think I'll leave that until it's discussed more. Personally, though, I think that Vets do largely the same but with better BS at the expense of sheer spammability. It's worth considering, though.

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm pretty sure Grenadiers gives Kraks, but don't have the codex on me to check. If anyone could answer, that'd be great as I can edit it faster.

It doesn't give krak grenades.

Oops, I'll edit that then. Cheers.

I don't think it really compares to vets. 9 SWS with flamers is 270 points. That's a little more than two equipped foot vet squads. I actually think they are complimentary to vets. Vets carry the plasma to attack hard targets. SWS carry flamers or whatever to harass and deny movement.

Platoons are nice in allied detachments because for 250-300 points you can put 6+ scoring units on the table that your opponent can't totally ignore and you're still only using up one troops slot.

Heck you could take 5 squads of vets and still have enough room in your force org for a platoon that double your scoring unit count.

Oh, I see, you were talking about cheap Flamer squads. In that case I agree entirely, I'd just hesitate to put plasma/melta on BS3 without the durability of a blob. But as the Fireball PCS is so good, and the SWS has only 1 flamer less, then yeah, that is a sound option.

I still don't get it though. People weren't taking SWSs before for a bunch of good reasons. Nothing changed except a couple of points saved on sniper rifles... the worst option.

Why are SWSs suddenly becoming all bee's knees?

 Ailaros wrote:
I still don't get it though. People weren't taking SWSs before for a bunch of good reasons. Nothing changed except a couple of points saved on sniper rifles... the worst option.

Why are SWSs suddenly becoming all bee's knees?

They are actually 5 points cheaper and you can bring up to 3 of them per platoon. Also, they are 6 strong so they are good for the Vendetta.

I am a fan of conscript blobs, great for bubble wrapping objectives and other such things.

I was looking at a unit of 20-30 guardsmen in a blob with autocannons and then a unit of 50 conscripts.

Two priests, two primaris and a inquisitor and yarrik.

Inquisotor, priest, and yarrik go in the conscripts with a primaris. Primaris and other priest goes in the guardsman.

AtoMaki wrote:They are actually 5 points cheaper and you can bring up to 3 of them per platoon. Also, they are 6 strong so they are good for the Vendetta.

It's only 5 points, and I don't know if I ever saw someone bring TWO per platoon. That wasn't holding people back before. And they could always fit in a vendetta.

It looks like there's nothing new but attitude.

Biophysical wrote:
You probably want to talk about Heavy Weapon Teams. They haven't changed much, and they're still not very good, but you should mention them. The only real new things you can do with them are adding Commissars. If you had two platoons and your CCS, you could make three lascannon teams Leadership 9 for 25 points each. This is still a pretty good lascannon per point ratio, and lets them make good use of orders, but doesn't really solve the durability issue.

Or give them a Primaris who can Prescience them every turn and let them pass orders more easily.

And the problem with HWSs was never leadership, it was durability.

Adding a commissar to an HWS means that you'll get a dead commissar and a dead HWS after a single round of shooting, rather than just a dead HWS.

For 108 points you get 3 scoring units that can hang back and force shorter range armies to push hard if they want to prevent you from scoring. At 36 points, the effort the enemy has to go through to take them out is more than they cost you.

 Ailaros wrote:
And the problem with HWSs was never leadership, it was durability.

The leadership complaints where always about their problems passing Orders consistantly, which was my point actually.

 Ailaros wrote:
Adding a commissar to an HWS means that you'll get a dead commissar and a dead HWS after a single round of shooting, rather than just a dead HWS.

Depending on what's shooting at them and if they can go to ground or not, yes that's possible. But that's possible with almost every single thing in the codex so why only apply that to just the HWS?