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Great model, the desire to gain an advantage over your friends in a game never ceases to amaze me! I am glad that I do not have enemies.

Still hoping FrozenOcean answers my question about the strength of that ball joint!

 Zagman wrote:

I still see alot of flexibility for that unit. Its difficult to kill, its Vector Strikes are nasty on Flyers, its Baleflamer roasts PA units and worse with a torrent flamer, and it always has the Option to Hover if it has to. Even if it flies off T3 an dT5 it will still get 3-6 Vector Strikes and 3-4 Baleflames over the course of a game it isn't destroyed.

It has zero flexibility (much like its neck), it is a one trick pony and any player who has seen one before knows exactly what its going to try to do. It has to fly over a VS target and land with an infantry target in front of it to get the ideal situation you assume is happening every chance. Your opponent literally has to *try* to set this up for you if you only have a single drake. You will not be getting all these chances to both VS and flame nearly every turn as you are counting. Additionally, you'll be lucky if those vector strikes are on fliers not on land because VS sucks against land targets now. If you have three drakes your opponent won't be able to avoid all the angles, so the change really hurts people who don't spam worse than those who do and also effectively removes the only other option the heldrake has in the hades cannon.

JubbJubbz wrote:
Still hoping FrozenOcean answers my question about the strength of that ball joint!

 Zagman wrote:

I still see alot of flexibility for that unit. Its difficult to kill, its Vector Strikes are nasty on Flyers, its Baleflamer roasts PA units and worse with a torrent flamer, and it always has the Option to Hover if it has to. Even if it flies off T3 an dT5 it will still get 3-6 Vector Strikes and 3-4 Baleflames over the course of a game it isn't destroyed.

It has zero flexibility (much like its neck), it is a one trick pony and any player who has seen one before knows exactly what its going to try to do. It has to fly over a VS target and land with an infantry target in front of it to get the ideal situation you assume is happening every chance. Your opponent literally has to *try* to set this up for you if you only have a single drake. You will not be getting all these chances to both VS and flame nearly every turn as you are counting. Additionally, you'll be lucky if those vector strikes are on fliers not on land because VS sucks against land targets now. If you have three drakes your opponent won't be able to avoid all the angles, so the change really hurts people who don't spam worse than those who do and also effectively removes the only other option the heldrake has in the hades cannon.

If you read what I wrote, VS is much more situational, but the Baleflamer is the true winner. And now the Helldrake can hurt 2+AS, which is had no meaningful chance of before. Note, I did not assume the Helldrake is always in optimal position, but in most games it will be difficult for the Helldrake to not make a solid impact on the game and good players who plan their moves greatly increase the productivity of the unit.

Just because its not an Easy Button unit like it was pre FAQ, doesn't make it a bad unit. Not in the slightest. It costs less than a Riptide, it more efficient at killing MEQ when it is on the board, and is harder to kill when Flying. When hovering its easier to kill, but not easy. Heck, and it comes with a decent Anti Flyer FMC ability built in with Vectorstrike. It still a great unit that does have much more versatility than you give it credit for. It also has a large impact on your opponents deployment and moves. Did I mention the Baleflamer is now much better again Open Topped vehicles?

Vector Strike makes the Helldrake viable and good vs Flyers when you can't set up a good ground angle. And, although it is harder than it was, it is still possible to VS and Baleflame a unit. Its just not broken like it was.

The Helldrake is still a very good unit, and is appropriately costed. I can't believe you cry "OMG, Riptide is OP!" while crying "Helldrake SUX!" Such a double standard. Both were too good in 6th, both have been take down a notch in 7th, the Helldrake more so. They are still on the list of best units in the game. And IMO the loss of Divination and the BuffCommander for the Riptide results in a greater loss at a competitive level than the limited Baleflamer arc and change to VS.

RamRam wrote:


So the rule is clear, if you can move the weapon on your vehicle, use this section of the rule.

So I just made the helldrake's weapon articulated. By doing so, I can ignore the second part of the rule and play with only the first part.

This is about as clearly modeling for advantage as you can get. You proudly claim you are doing it. For shame.

Now, if you moved this over to the painting and modeling forum, I would applaud your creativity.

EDIT: NEVERMIND!

JubbJubbz wrote:
Still hoping FrozenOcean answers my question about the strength of that ball joint!

Why would I know?

Frozen Ocean wrote:

JubbJubbz wrote:
Still hoping FrozenOcean answers my question about the strength of that ball joint!

Why would I know?

Ha, sorry Frozen, I mistook you for OP.

 Zagman wrote:

If you read what I wrote, VS is much more situational, but the Baleflamer is the true winner. And now the Helldrake can hurt 2+AS, which is had no meaningful chance of before. Note, I did not assume the Helldrake is always in optimal position, but in most games it will be difficult for the Helldrake to not make a solid impact on the game and good players who plan their moves greatly increase the productivity of the unit.

Just because its not an Easy Button unit like it was pre FAQ, doesn't make it a bad unit. Not in the slightest. It costs less than a Riptide, it more efficient at killing MEQ when it is on the board, and is harder to kill when Flying. When hovering its easier to kill, but not easy. Heck, and it comes with a decent Anti Flyer FMC ability built in with Vectorstrike. It still a great unit that does have much more versatility than you give it credit for. It also has a large impact on your opponents deployment and moves. Did I mention the Baleflamer is now much better again Open Topped vehicles?

Vector Strike makes the Helldrake viable and good vs Flyers when you can't set up a good ground angle. And, although it is harder than it was, it is still possible to VS and Baleflame a unit. Its just not broken like it was.

The Helldrake is still a very good unit, and is appropriately costed. I can't believe you cry "OMG, Riptide is OP!" while crying "Helldrake SUX!" Such a double standard. Both were too good in 6th, both have been take down a notch in 7th, the Helldrake more so. They are still on the list of best units in the game. And IMO the loss of Divination and the BuffCommander for the Riptide results in a greater loss at a competitive level than the limited Baleflamer arc and change to VS.

You think VS is now viable attack power vs 2+ armor saves. It still has no meaningful chance. You think its easy to VS something and land with a unit in front of you. It cost about the same as a riptide and isn't nearly as efficient as killing MEQ. It can hit hit 4 or so marines 2 or 3 times a game if your opponent has half a brain. Its not like it can jetpack around the board shooting in any direction. It is durable like a riptide but in a different way that so it has common counters. If your opponent has skyfire its not hard to take down a drake at all. A riptide with high T and W and 2+ armor save has no common counters other than throwing enormous amounts of shooting at it or getting it melee which is incredibly difficult given its ridiculously fast. It is trash when hovering and dies incredibly easily just like the rest of AV12 vehicles. Now it is a mediocre unit at best. Against a good opponent its pretty crap and mark my words you'll see much less heldrake and more spawn/bikes.
The bale flamer is better against open topped *transports* which I was worried about... well none of. It is a minor inconvenience to your opponent as all they have to do is spread out infantry and not leave heldrake sized gaps in straights lines between something they don't want VS and a infantry unit. Not a hard task at all. Do that and the heldrake is forgettable. Vectorstrike used to make it a good unit because it supplemented killing your 4 infantry with the baleflamer on most turns by taking a few HP off light/medium vehicles. Now your down to killing 4 infantry on 2 or 3 turns and doing negligible damage with VS. I would gladly delete the heldrake from the codex if the forgefiend got switched to T6 5W 2+ MC status which still wouldn't be as good as the riptide, in a HS slot no less!