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 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
His opponent ran against him on the immigration nightmare. This is a warning.

Possibly... at least it'll make the other politicians (even Democrats) think twice.

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
His opponent ran against him on the immigration nightmare. This is a warning.

Possibly... at least it'll make the other politicians (even Democrats) think twice.

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

It'll never happen when the crazies won't enforce the fething borders and enforce existing immigration laws.

So it's a good thing deportations are at an all time high under Obama, right?

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

It'll never happen when the crazies won't enforce the fething borders and enforce existing immigration laws.

Which doesn't have anything to do with any kind of amnesty package.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Laughing Man wrote:
So it's a good thing deportations are at an all time high under Obama, right?

Don't confuse things with facts

They're counting the ones turned back at the border.

 Laughing Man wrote:
So it's a good thing deportations are at an all time high under Obama, right?

The same Obama who meets and sympathizes with people going on hunger strike to try and gain sympathy for amnesty? The same Obama who said that he wants amnesty? Who also said that he would make use of executive orders to make amnesty a reality?

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

It'll never happen when the crazies won't enforce the fething borders and enforce existing immigration laws.

Which doesn't have anything to do with any kind of amnesty package.

Que?

If the voters can be assured that the government is doing what they can on the border AND enforce existing immigrations laws.... I'm sure a reasonable discussion can be had about the existing immigrants in this country.

Until then? Why bother?

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
His opponent ran against him on the immigration nightmare. This is a warning.

Possibly... at least it'll make the other politicians (even Democrats) think twice.

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

And having an open border where thousands of children from every country in the wold, along with narcoterrorists, MS13 and everyone who care's to just wanders across is not sustainable either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Laughing Man wrote:
So it's a good thing deportations are at an all time high under Obama, right?

(people) Imports are at en even higher all time high.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Comprehensive Imigration Reform is never going to happen, not with the crazy that is currently going on and the whole "kick out anybody that even thinks about amnesty" thread from the Tea Party.

Pretending that we can round up and kick out every illegal immigrant currently here is just as stupid as pretending that we can just pass gun control and round up every illegal gun. But that doesn't stop people from being anti-amnesty and so nothing will happen.

It'll never happen when the crazies won't enforce the fething borders and enforce existing immigration laws.

Which doesn't have anything to do with any kind of amnesty package.

Que?

If the voters can be assured that the government is doing what they can on the border AND enforce existing immigrations laws.... I'm sure a reasonable discussion can be had about the existing immigrants in this country.

Until then? Why bother?

Exactly. Reasonable can agree to a reasonable plan for assimilation, if there is control of the border.

Nice wish list, too bad that none of that matters. Any kind of immigration reform that addresses every single item that you guys are talking about is dead on arrival if it has any kind of amnesty attached to it.

Because people are stupid and pretend that we can kick out every single illegal already here.

Every single item?

*Control border
*Put those here through same process as legal immigrants.

Whats the problem?

Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

The concept is in opposition to everything the law stands for. We might as well not have any regulation of crossing the border and let everyone come on over to the party.


Just enforce the damn laws already on the books, secure the border, and just catch the illegals as we find them like we do now.

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.



And if you want to do Amnesty, have it work as follows.

1) turn yourself in and get sent back.

2) Instead of being given criminal charges, you are allowed to put yourself on the waiting list to get back in.

That is amnesty, having criminal charges dropped and allowed to come back through like everyone else. Not being given a free pass and allowed to stay ahead of everyone who is willing to respect our country's laws.

 Frazzled wrote:
Every single item?

*Control border
*Put those here through same process as legal immigrants.

Whats the problem?

50% of your post has amnesty in it, so it is never going to happen in today's political climate.

And having an open border where thousands of children from every country in the wold

Actually that mainly South American children coming up through the border. South American countries are a different category compare to Mexico. Its a version of "anchor baby"

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

Good thing no reform that included amnesty proposed "giving anybody a free pass".

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.

How's the weather in imagination land?

 Frazzled wrote:


(people) Imports are at en even higher all time high.

This is actually false (unless something very recent changed). Illegal immigration has been trending downward for years, and the total illegal immigrant population has actually *declined* since 2007, down by nearly a million. There's evidence that may have upticked at the end of 2013 (no reliable 2014 data yet AFAIK) but people imports are lower now than in the past.

It's a function of both Mexico getting wealthier and older, and the US economic recession making the US less desirable place to move to.

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

Good thing no reform that included amnesty proposed "giving anybody a free pass".

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.

How's the weather in imagination land?

Tell me why we couldn't do it then?

What exactly makes it impossible to remove at least a large portion of illegals if we had all the manpower you could need?

We're a kinder, nicer, gentler America. Where the fountain of benefits is forever pouring

I can only begin to imagine the gak fit that would be thrown if a president mobilized the army along the border to try to stop illegal immigrants. That anyone thinks it even begins to approach a viable solution is insanity of the highest order.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

Good thing no reform that included amnesty proposed "giving anybody a free pass".

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.

How's the weather in imagination land?

Tell me why we couldn't do it then?

Because it would involve a mobilization of every law enforcement and military asset that the US possesses and it would require that the entire country would become one giant police state so that every town/city/county could get searched at once while the entire country is on total lockdown for the entire population to prevent any movement of any kind.

What exactly makes it impossible to remove at least a large portion of illegals

Nice goal post moving.

if we had all the manpower you could need?

Because the minute any kind of law enforcement is knocking on your door demanding to let you in so that they can see if you are hiding any kind of illegals in your basement you would be on Dakka bitching about Obama being an evil socialist who is taking all your rights away.

You know who also wanted to remove an entire subgroup of people from their nation? The Nazis.
You know who also failed to remove an entire subgroup of people from their nation? The Nazis.

It can't be done. Pretending that it can be done is stupid.

 streamdragon wrote:
I can only begin to imagine the gak fit that would be thrown if a president mobilized the army along the border to try to stop illegal immigrants. That anyone thinks it even begins to approach a viable solution is insanity of the highest order.

You mean, like Mexico does on its southern border???

No goal post moving.

If you read the bit of my post you quoted you'll see I said "most of the illegals"

You'll also note I said it wouldn't be popular and would be political suicide. But it could be done.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

Good thing no reform that included amnesty proposed "giving anybody a free pass".

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.

How's the weather in imagination land?

Tell me why we couldn't do it then?

What exactly makes it impossible to remove at least a large portion of illegals if we had all the manpower you could need?

The fact that you'd probably have what amounts to an actual war at that point? We're talking ~11 million people here, even if you wanted to forcibly remove say, half of them, you're talking about moving a population equal to that of Ireland. Not only is that just a massive logistical nightmare, that would be one of the largest forced migrations in history.

I'm just imagining a government sweep trying to eject 50,000 illegals out of say, Los Angeles. That'll go over well.

 Frazzled wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I can only begin to imagine the gak fit that would be thrown if a president mobilized the army along the border to try to stop illegal immigrants. That anyone thinks it even begins to approach a viable solution is insanity of the highest order.

You mean, like Mexico does on its southern border???

Considering how many of the Mexican army are probably in Cartel pockets and HELPING the people traffic...

The last time the US military was used like law enforcement in the US, thousands of Japanese families were rounded up and placed in internment camps. It is rightly considered a stain on US military history.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The fact that you'd probably have what amounts to an actual war at that point? We're talking ~11 million people here, even if you wanted to forcibly remove say, half of them, you're talking about moving a population equal to that of Ireland. Not only is that just a massive logistical nightmare, that would be one of the largest forced migrations in history.

You'd also have to implement some insanely draconian domestic laws to be able to find them as well. I imagine the police would need more military style weapons on top of that...wait a minute...

But it could be done is all I'm saying.

I'm not saying it would be ultimately successful or that it would get everyone(that would be impossible)

but saying we couldn't get rid of a bunch of the illegals if we tried is just false.

No, it wouldn't be a good idea.

 Grey Templar wrote:

You'll also note I said it wouldn't be popular and would be political suicide. But it could be done.

So are you saying that you are okay and willing to let government agents into your home without a warrant and search every room, closet, and potential hiding spot?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Laughing Man wrote:
So it's a good thing deportations are at an all time high under Obama, right?

(people) Imports are at en even higher all time high.

No they aren't.

 Frazzled wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I can only begin to imagine the gak fit that would be thrown if a president mobilized the army along the border to try to stop illegal immigrants. That anyone thinks it even begins to approach a viable solution is insanity of the highest order.

You mean, like Mexico does on its southern border???

Pretending that Mexico is having any kind of success there is pretty silly considering that a pretty good portion of our illegal immigrants come from south of Mexico's border.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But it could be done is all I'm saying.

I'm not saying it would be ultimately successful

It could work, but I'm not saying that it could work...

The concept is in opposition to everything the law stands for.

Sometimes the law has to shut up and face the fact that its inadequate to solve the problem at hand.

d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not that we can kick them out or not. Its that we shouldn't just give them a free pass because we can't find them.

Good thing no reform that included amnesty proposed "giving anybody a free pass".

And we could kick most of the illegals out if we actually tried. Bring in the army to help and it could be done. It wouldn't be a popular decision, but it is physically possible. Realistically no, but physically yes.

How's the weather in imagination land?

Tell me why we couldn't do it then?

Because it would involve a mobilization of every law enforcement and military asset that the US possesses and it would require that the entire country would become one giant police state so that every town/city/county could get searched at once while the entire country is on total lockdown for the entire population to prevent any movement of any kind.

What exactly makes it impossible to remove at least a large portion of illegals

Nice goal post moving.

if we had all the manpower you could need?

Because the minute any kind of law enforcement is knocking on your door demanding to let you in so that they can see if you are hiding any kind of illegals in your basement you would be on Dakka bitching about Obama being an evil socialist who is taking all your rights away.

You know who also wanted to remove an entire subgroup of people from their nation? The Nazis.
You know who also failed to remove an entire subgroup of people from their nation? The Nazis.

It can't be done. Pretending that it can be done is stupid.

d-usa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

You'll also note I said it wouldn't be popular and would be political suicide. But it could be done.

So are you saying that you are okay and willing to let government agents into your home without a warrant and search every room, closet, and potential hiding spot?

We did at a time have Active Military on the border for LPOP and AZ activated some National Guard troops though they are legally authorized to handle illegal aliens