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Don't forget that with the mob rule we got our old waaaaagh! back and 'ere we go. While it's debatable if the mob rule is good or bad, the other two are a significant improvement.

I think I can number myself among the few who actually like the new mob rule. Maybe it's just been incredibly kind to me, but considering I've gotten in a LOT of games since 7th dropped, thats statistically improbable. A lot of people are saying orks are unreliable now, but in my opinion, we have THE MOST reliable troops bar space marines. We kill each other, sure, but we do so reliably, and we stick around because of it. It hurt big mobs, but everything else in the codex benefits from it, and it isn't uncommon for me to have a sole surviving nob hold out in combat or survive his unit's destruction and stick around for the rest of the game as a one nob army.

You just have to go in with the mindset that you probably aren't going to run, but you are gonna lose boyz. Attrition is just as much if not more a thing for orks than it is for guard, and it shows. I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually run away as orks, because really, the stars sort of have to align for it to happen. As an ork player you just have to be constantly aware of wound allocation and keeping your nob safe and effective. You want him in the 3rd or 4th row of combat, or near the back when moving around. And he should always have a bosspole, and near always have a power klaw. Don't count on your actual boyz to do anything but act as ablative wounds and a delivery method for your powerklaws, which are the real workhorses of the army. Anything that the boyz kill in melee are a bonus. If you have a nob, are in melee, and have 11 boyz, you are not going to run, same as before. Sure, you might kill 2-3 boyz, but I've lost 4 boyz as often as I lose none. The only thing that actually kind of sucks with the new mob rule is our susceptibility to Fear, which actually is extremely punishing.

I would still consider Orks a middle of the pack codex, if not upper middle of the pack. The only armies I have any degree of difficulty with are eldar and tau, but nearly everyone who isnt eldar or tau have problems with them. Our biggest loss was being stripped of all our invulns except the force field, and it doesnt work in melee (aka where we actually need the invulns) so as a result, warbosses are glass cannons, but really, they are dead cheap. A powerklaw, shoota, and bosspole and you're good to go.

The painboy switch is a mixed bag, because now you can take him for anyone, but he takes up an HQ. Wish they could have been like a 0-3 slotless HQ, but what can we do, right?

In my opinion, the absolute BEST part about the new codex, is that like the Eldar and Tau codexes (albeit to a much lesser degree) we don't really have any BAD choices. Everything can find a place, even though they might not be optimal. We don't have any Vespids, so to speak. Closest thing would be Kanz, but grotzookas are still great for clearing out Tau castles and guard lines.

The new psychic powers arent too bad either. Sure we lost the random table, but at least we have something reliable we can use tactically now. And we have so much S8 Ap3 in the army via klaws and rokkits that MEQs don't really even stand a chance.

I dunno. I honestly think we moved up a spot on the totem pole with this codex, other than a few setbacks. We mostly got a good deal out of it.

EDIT: and yeah, the new Waaagh! is great, and Ere We Go is a godsend (praise Gork)

I hardly have anyone playing Orks in my local store. I am sad because I really want to kill them.

I've played 3 games of 7th edition, all with my Orks, all against an Eldar player, who is optimized for horde killing: 2 WS with Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon and that damn Serpent shield, 2 units of Wraighguard with those stupid flamers, a Wraithknight with Scatter Laser and Suncannon, Eldrad, some guardians and some Dire Avengers). I've won 2 out of 3 of those games. Orks are great in maelstrom. They can claim objectives fairly easily with multiple mobs on the table.

They were all close games with a handful of models on the table by the end, but the Orks are fairing well for me.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I've played 3 games of 7th edition, all with my Orks, all against an Eldar player, who is optimized for horde killing: 2 WS with Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon and that damn Serpent shield, 2 units of Wraighguard with those stupid flamers, a Wraithknight with Scatter Laser and Suncannon, Eldrad, some guardians and some Dire Avengers). I've won 2 out of 3 of those games. Orks are great in maelstrom. They can claim objectives fairly easily with multiple mobs on the table.

They were all close games with a handful of models on the table by the end, but the Orks are fairing well for me.

could you give us an idea of what you were playing ?

1500 points

-Warboss Snotteef: PK, Kustom Shoota, Bosspole, Eavy Armor
-Painboy
-20 Slugga Boyz w/ 2 Rokkits, Nob w/ PK and Bosspole
-20 Slugga Boyz w/ 2 Rokkits: Nob w/ Bosspole (Warboss and Painboy accombany)
-20 Shoota Boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas, Nob w/ bosspole and Kustom Shoota
-20 Grots
-10 Slugga boyz w/ 1 Rokkit, Nob w/ PK and Bosspole, Riding a Trukk w/ a Rokkit.
-10 Tankbustas: Nob w/ bosspole, 2 Bomb Squigs
-6 Biker Boyz; Nob w/ Bosspole
-10 Kommandos w/ 2 burnas; Nob w/ PK and bosspole (very good in maelstrom for grabbing quick objectives).
-Deff Dread w/ 2 Kustom Mega Blastas (that's what I had modele from 5th edition: I'd prefer Rokkits these days).
Battlewagon w/ 3 Rokkits and Grot Riggers (Tank bustas usually ride this).

It's a nice base of footsloggers, with just enough fast stuff to assault Wave Serpents on turn 2 or 3.

Just friendly games mind you.

With regard to the new mob rule, to me it feels a bit... weird.

I think it's a better direction than the old one, but it just seems unfinished.

I guess I just find it strange to have it based on a random chart, where the roll frequently has no relevance to the situation at hand.

I'd have thought it would be better to have the squad suffer some sort of penalty (e.g. a specific number of hits), but have it lessened if the squad meets certain parameters:

e.g. If an Ork squad fails a Morale test, it doesn't flee if it is in combat, contains 10 or more models and/or contains at least one Ork Character. Instead, the squad suffers 3d6 S4 AP- hits.
- If the ork unit contains at least one ork character, reduce the number of hits by d6.
- If the unit contains a Bosspole, reduce the number of hits by d6.
- If the unit is currently in combat, any engaged enemy units with at least one model in BTB with the Ork squad suffer d6 S4 AP- Hits.

That's just off the top of my head, but hopefully you get the idea.

As above, it's really the random element that gets to me - if Numbers, Characters and Melee are going to be important, then it seems like they should be consistently important - rather than just randomly important sometimes.

I think I would have kept the old Mob rule, but instead of being fearless at 11+ models, they would gain stubborn. Simple.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I think I would have kept the old Mob rule, but instead of being fearless at 11+ models, they would gain stubborn. Simple.

I like that idea, though it always seems a bit odd for Nob and Mega Nob squads.

 vipoid wrote:
With regard to the new mob rule, to me it feels a bit... weird.

I think it's a better direction than the old one, but it just seems unfinished.

I guess I just find it strange to have it based on a random chart, where the roll frequently has no relevance to the situation at hand.

I'd have thought it would be better to have the squad suffer some sort of penalty (e.g. a specific number of hits), but have it lessened if the squad meets certain parameters:

e.g. If an Ork squad fails a Morale test, it doesn't flee if it is in combat, contains 10 or more models and/or contains at least one Ork Character. Instead, the squad suffers 3d6 S4 AP- hits.
- If the ork unit contains at least one ork character, reduce the number of hits by d6.
- If the unit contains a Bosspole, reduce the number of hits by d6.
- If the unit is currently in combat, any engaged enemy units with at least one model in BTB with the Ork squad suffer d6 S4 AP- Hits.

That's just off the top of my head, but hopefully you get the idea.

As above, it's really the random element that gets to me - if Numbers, Characters and Melee are going to be important, then it seems like they should be consistently important - rather than just randomly important sometimes.

Agree, the rule is just overcomplicated for what it does.
My suggestion would have been something like this:
Orks pass any failed morale/pinning on a 6+,
+2 for unit above 10.
+1 for a for character,
+1 for boss pole,
+1 for being in combat.
If you pass, suffer 1d6 hits, allocate any way you like. Done.

 vipoid wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I think I would have kept the old Mob rule, but instead of being fearless at 11+ models, they would gain stubborn. Simple.

I like that idea, though it always seems a bit odd for Nob and Mega Nob squads.

You might make Nobs and Bikers count as 2 models each to help that out.

I also like the idea in the post above this one, though I really think d3 S4 hits is more than enough. D6 is TOO random. I've lost 5 guys at a go.

EDIT: Actually, I might just make Nobz and Bikers always stubborn, rather than mobbing them. Either way.

5 guys ? So you rolled 5 hits, then 5, 4+s. Then failed all the Tshirt saved ? That sounds like bad luck.

Even with 6 hits the avg should should be 3 wounds before Tshirt and fnp.

I find the mob rule easy to use and more helpful than harmful. not comicated at all. And i rather lose a boy or 2 then get run down in combat.

Stubborn be awefull with ld7. You know how many times my boyz would have fled by now.

 Jidmah wrote:

Agree, the rule is just overcomplicated for what it does.
My suggestion would have been something like this:
Orks pass any failed morale/pinning on a 6+,
+2 for unit above 10.
+1 for a for character,
+1 for boss pole,
+1 for being in combat.
If you pass, suffer 1d6 hits, allocate any way you like. Done.

I could get behind that.

Out of interest, is 1 always a fail, or can you auto-pass if all of the above are true?

 docdoom77 wrote:

I also like the idea in the post above this one, though I really think d3 S4 hits is more than enough. D6 is TOO random. I've lost 5 guys at a go.

d3 seems a bit piddling to me. You were unfortunate to lose 5 guys, but that seems like too rare an occurrence to base things on.

Something of an aside, but I remember when one of my friend's Ork squads was wiped out to the Nob. The Nob promptly failed his morale test and rolled a 3 on Mob Rule, whereupon he slapped himself in the face a few times (taking a wound). and prepared to rejoin the fight. Not especially useful, but damn amusing.

Mob rule feels fine except for random wound allocation - it's slowing the game and is hard to do with jus dice. With the ammount of random allocation gw is presenting, they should propose some easy way to play it. As for now, we sometimes have to throw 2d6 or even 3d6 and use it like in a chaos boon table with rerolls and stuff like that.

Or another way is to present a general rule like summary execution with a d6 roll where 1 is the opponent allocates, 2-6 is the player allocates.

Well, I have notoriously bad luck. Or... maybe swingy would be a better. I either lose 3-5 boys or none.

Agreed about the random allocation. What a waste of time: why isn't it the guys nearest the Nob/Character?

Of course wound allocation in the last two editions is a tedious mess in my opinion.

Ugh, I despise random wound allocation.

 vipoid wrote:
Ugh, I despise random wound allocation.

To be honest, we just don't do it. I grab the guys nearest the Nob and call it good. House rule of sorts.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Ugh, I despise random wound allocation.

To be honest, we just don't do it. I grab the guys nearest the Nob and call it good. House rule of sorts.

This is what I'm planning on doing when I finally get a game in with my orks. Until I get my green tide formation done, which actually allows me to allocate wounds as I please, so yay!

 vipoid wrote:

I could get behind that.

Out of interest, is 1 always a fail, or can you auto-pass if all of the above are true?

Auto-pass. A unit in combat of 10+ models with a character can't ever fail moral under the current mob rule either.

Well, according to Torrent of Fire, Orks are doing fine as long as they don't face Tau or Eldar. I realise that there really isn't enough collected data, but still, it's interesting to watch.

http://www.torrentoffire.com/5934/the-meta-post-nova

 Jidmah wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I could get behind that.

Out of interest, is 1 always a fail, or can you auto-pass if all of the above are true?

Auto-pass. A unit in combat of 10+ models with a character can't ever fail moral under the current mob rule either.

Under the current mob rule a unit of 10+, who is not locked in combat CAN fail a moral test if they roll a 1 on the mob table. Not much of a chance with a bosspole in, but still a chance.

I never contested that.

 Jidmah wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I could get behind that.

Out of interest, is 1 always a fail, or can you auto-pass if all of the above are true?

Auto-pass. A unit in combat of 10+ models with a character can't ever fail moral under the current mob rule either .

I have bolded the relevant text. Maybe you didn't mean it, or maybe there is some context missing, but this clearly says that Orks with 10+ can't ever fail a morale check with the current mob rules.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I could get behind that.

Out of interest, is 1 always a fail, or can you auto-pass if all of the above are true?

Auto-pass. A unit in combat of 10+ models with a character can't ever fail moral under the current mob rule either.

I have bolded the relevant text. Maybe you didn't mean it, or maybe there is some context missing, but this clearly says that Orks with 10+ can't ever fail a morale check with the current mob rules.

Fixed

Cool. Didn't mean to pick nits. Just wanted to make sure we were presenting accurate information.

No harm done

If we are going to daydream/wish list about the MobRule here's how I would have loved it
1. If in CC pass moral, other wise fail moral
2-3. If in CC pass moral, or if unit has a character then it suffers D3+1 hits useing the highest unmodified STR of characters in unit then passes test
4-6. If in CC pass moral, or if unit is 10 or more models it suffers D6+3 STR 3 hits then passes test
Now to the why I feel this way. Even in Fantasy Orcs don't test Animosity in CC there to buisy beating some body up. Then theres the Charater concept it should be the NOB'z Str or the Warboss STR who ever is biggest, used to bat the boys back in shape. Then the over ten thing bothers me as this says to me that the boys are beating each other up and boys are STR 3 so why am I taking STR 4 hits.
But this is just pointless wish listing thanks for reading.

Orkhead wrote:
If we are going to daydream/wish list about the MobRule here's how I would have loved it
1. If in CC pass moral, other wise fail moral
2-3. If in CC pass moral, or if unit has a character then it suffers D3+1 hits useing the highest unmodified STR of characters in unit then passes test
4-6. If in CC pass moral, or if unit is 10 or more models it suffers D6+3 STR 3 hits then passes test
Now to the why I feel this way. Even in Fantasy Orcs don't test Animosity in CC there to buisy beating some body up. Then theres the Charater concept it should be the NOB'z Str or the Warboss STR who ever is biggest, used to bat the boys back in shape. Then the over ten thing bothers me as this says to me that the boys are beating each other up and boys are STR 3 so why am I taking STR 4 hits.
But this is just pointless wish listing thanks for reading.

Not much different from the current one. Just remove the random factor like in the green tide. I guess, they've come across this issue.

Hey, you've shot my green tide without a big bosspole warboss with a pinning weapon...let me get my d103 and we're good to go...