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Tip of the weapon is orange. So its the last portion of the weapon you would see when its fully drawn. Till the tip itself is fully expose the LEO is going to react to the individual carrying a live weapon

 Jihadin wrote:
Tip of the weapon is orange. So its the last portion of the weapon you would see when its fully drawn. Till the tip itself is fully expose the LEO is going to react to the individual carrying a live weapon

OH. I see where you're coming from.

In the study cited, the "guns" were pointed at the officers.

 Jihadin wrote:
Tip of the weapon is orange. So its the last portion of the weapon you would see when its fully drawn. Till the tip itself is fully expose the LEO is going to react to the individual carrying a live weapon

That makes a lot of sense. I'm surprised nobody thought of it before.

 Ouze wrote:
In the study cited, the "guns" were pointed at the officers.

In that case... isn't it harder to make such determination if see the gun in this profile:


Compared to the side profile:

 Ouze wrote:
In the study cited, the "guns" were pointed at the officers.

Its already to late for the brain to kick in to prevent the trigger squeeze.

 Jihadin wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
In the study cited, the "guns" were pointed at the officers.

Its already to late for the brain to kick in to prevent the trigger squeeze.

Again, if you actually read the cited study, you'd see that's not true.

A t least one test subject who successfully identified test weapons as toy handguns reported he did so as a consequence of handout material that made him aware of marking systems for toy weapons. On the average, clearly marked toy guns were most likely to provoke shootings on the first trial, and less likely after police officers gained some familiarity with the situation and the possible appearance of toy guns.

The idea that a police officer's muscle memory kicks in and forces them to shoot anyone who points anything at them, no matter how clearly it's a toy, is not accurate, it's simply inadequate training.

Nonetheless, I think the takeaway idea is that if you have kids, you might not want to give them any guns to play with, regardless of how realistic or not they are.

My dad was wise enough to give me the advice to never point anything at a cop as even just the gesture could be mistaken as a hostile action.

You never do it even as a joke. Maybe if his parents had taken a couple minutes to tell their kid the same he'd still be alive.

 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
In the study cited, the "guns" were pointed at the officers.

Its already to late for the brain to kick in to prevent the trigger squeeze.

Again, if you actually read the cited study, you'd see that's not true.

A t least one test subject who successfully identified test weapons as toy handguns reported he did so as a consequence of handout material that made him aware of marking systems for toy weapons. On the average, clearly marked toy guns were most likely to provoke shootings on the first trial, and less likely after police officers gained some familiarity with the situation and the possible appearance of toy guns.

The idea that a police officer's muscle memory kicks in and forces them to shoot anyone who points anything at them, no matter how clearly it's a toy, is not accurate, it's simply inadequate training.

Nonetheless, I think the takeaway idea is that if you have kids, you might not want to give them any guns to play with, regardless of how realistic or not they are.

All toy weapons to marked on and after 5 May 89
Test conducted on August 1989

Any changes to the law to indicate they are toy weapons?

This is still in compliance

As these are to


but this is a real 9mm


this is a real M4


Edit
Woops
meant a short barrel M16

On a personal note, I find the practice of coloring real firearms in toy colors to be odious. To each their own, but I don't see the appeal - or wisdom - in taking a functional firearm and having someone cerakote it in some pastel hue. It looks dumb at best and is dangerous at worst. I don't mean any cerakote\durakote\what have you - I rather like the graphite, and phosphate-y finishes - I'm talking about the neon greens and such.

This just seems really dangerous and stupid to me:





Also, the idea that the gun industry can appeal to women by making guns pink is sort of facepalm worthy, isn't it? I mean, talk about embarrassingly condescending.

 Ouze wrote:
On a personal note, I find the practice of coloring real firearms in toy colors to be odious. To each their own, but I don't see the appeal - or wisdom - in taking a functional firearm and having someone cerakote it in some pastel hue. It looks dumb at best and is dangerous at worst. I don't mean any cerakote\durakote\what have you - I rather like the graphite, and phosphate-y finishes - I'm talking about the neon greens and such.

This just seems really dangerous and stupid to me:

Spoiler:

Also, the idea that the gun industry can appeal to women by making guns pink is sort of facepalm worthy, isn't it? I mean, talk about embarrassingly condescending.

I agree completely about the coloring of guns toy-like colors. I've seen a lot of cheaper gun manufacturers do it, and it appears to be getting worse. It used to be primarily just grip colors (which I don't really have a problem with, because they are still obviously real guns) but when they start coloring the entire gun read or blue or whatever, it starts to become a lot more questionable. I don't see it as a good practice.

And I also on the pink gun point: I agree as well. While I don't think there's anything wrong with guns with pink grips or something, if that's what somebody wants (and obviously someone is buying them since they've been around for awhile) but I definitely do see how it can be condescending. When I was trying to find something for my wife, I asked her what she wanted and one of the things she specifically said was that she didn't want anything that was pink. Not that she doesn't like the color, but she thought it looked idiotic on a gun and kind of defeated the purpose of having a weapon. While I could also see why someone might want a gun with pink grips or something, I'm inclined to agree.

 Ouze wrote:

Also, the idea that the gun industry can appeal to women by making guns pink is sort of facepalm worthy, isn't it? I mean, talk about embarrassingly condescending.

I don't know man... women do love to accessorize things... now matter what it is.

I don't get it either.

 Hordini wrote:
While I could also see why someone might want a gun with pink grips or something, I'm inclined to agree.

As a friend of mine pointed out to me the other day, it makes it easier to see where to put your hands on a gun when its dark. Especially with pistols.

That's a good point.

 Ouze wrote:
That's a good point.

Also a good aiming point depending on the available ambient light

 Jihadin wrote:

Also a good aiming point depending on the available ambient light

While glow in the dark might be a bit much, in most situations in the US ambient light will cancel it out.

Still a bright color can definitely help when you know where to look, and what you're looking for; especially when you've just been woken up.

 dogma wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

Also a good aiming point depending on the available ambient light

While glow in the dark might be a bit much, in most situations in the US ambient light will cancel it out.

Still a bright color can definitely help when you know where to look, and what you're looking for; especially when you've just been woken up.

My recommendation would be tritium night sights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dogma wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
While I could also see why someone might want a gun with pink grips or something, I'm inclined to agree.

As a friend of mine pointed out to me the other day, it makes it easier to see where to put your hands on a gun when its dark. Especially with pistols.

And that's true, but that could be any bright color, not just pink. And I don't find a brightly colored grip to be as obnoxious as an entire gun being brightly colored.

Glad I live in Sweden.

 Matthew wrote:
Glad I live in Sweden.

I'm very happy for you.

Do kids often shoot cops in the US?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Do kids often shoot cops in the US?

Not really, I don't think. I don't have any statistics to offer you at this moment though. Why do you ask?

I think the decision of the cop is more/less understandable if kids shooting cops is very common/uncommon.

Just another factor.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think the decision of the cop is more/less understandable if kids shooting cops is very common/uncommon.

Just another factor.

Well, a police officer being involved in a shooting at all isn't exactly a common occurrence statistically, so I'm not sure it is really that much of a factor. The majority of police officers never fire their weapon outside of training. In addition, when a person is actually drawing or pointing a weapon right in front of you, you're probably not going to be thinking about how common or uncommon the situation is.

 Hordini wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think the decision of the cop is more/less understandable if kids shooting cops is very common/uncommon.

Just another factor.

Well, a police officer being involved in a shooting at all isn't exactly a common occurrence statistically, so I'm not sure it is really that much of a factor. The majority of police officers never fire their weapon outside of training. In addition, when a person is actually drawing or pointing a weapon right in front of you, you're probably not going to be thinking about how common or uncommon the situation is.

Well, there is also when the cops shoot you for looking like a suspect.

It seems like there is a problem with cops resorting to guns too quickly, and innocents suffering as a result.

Dude... he wasn't shot because he looked like a suspect. He was shot because he pulled a 9mm out, and put it in the police officers face. Did you even read the story you linked?

And yes, there is video evidence showing the guy pulling a gun on the officer.

Err, Antonio Martin, the man in the story you linked, was shot because he pulled out a loaded firearm and pointed it at a police officer at what was effectively point blank range. In that situation, the police officer would have been dead as it appears Mr. Martin had every intention of killing him, but evidently (if the evidence photo of the weapon is anything to go by) he forgot to deactivate his weapons safety, giving the police officer the opportunity to draw his own weapon and put an end to the threat.

 djones520 wrote:
Dude... he wasn't shot because he looked like a suspect. He was shot because he pulled a 9mm out, and put it in the police officers face. Did you even read the story you linked?

And yes, there is video evidence showing the guy pulling a gun on the officer.

Did you?

It was both stated and clearly shown that the video evidence did not clearly show if he held a gun or not. The police say the footage is clear... but only the police.

In addition, the shooter was the only one to claim that the victim actually pulled a gun.

also, if we want to talk about Sweden...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30602252




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Dude... he wasn't shot because he looked like a suspect. He was shot because he pulled a 9mm out, and put it in the police officers face. Did you even read the story you linked?

And yes, there is video evidence showing the guy pulling a gun on the officer.

Did you?

It was both stated and clearly shown that the video evidence did not clearly show if he held a gun or not.

In addition, the shooter was the only one to claim that the victim actually pulled a gun...

Maybe its the benefit of me having a 40" screen for a monitor, but you can very clearly see a weapon being drawn in the video. There is also the fact that there was, in fact, a weapon found with the suspects fingerprints on them, with 5 rounds in the magazine, one on the chamber, and the serial number filed off (meaning it was also an illegally obtained weapon)

Does it? My monitor is quite small admittedly, but to me it looks like he is pointing. The video on the site I linked also said it's inconclusive.

Do we have a site with more up-to-date news?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Do kids often shoot cops in the US?

Depends on your definition of kid.

Little 8 year old Timmy who lives on the corner, no.

14-18 year old gang members, sure. It happens.

Just because the person holding the gun might be younger than 18 doesn't change the fact he's holding a gun. Its not any less dangerous, if anything its more dangerous.