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2015/03/19 23:37:08
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
djones520 wrote: It fits his worldview Dreadclaw. That is how he reaches it.
If the majority of crack users are black then any law that punishes crack at a higher level than powder automatically affects black people more. That's basic statistics and has nothing to do with worldviews.
I think people get defensive because they mistake "affects blacks" with "targets blacks".
2015/03/19 23:37:19
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
The initial premise seems innately flawed. My understanding is that minorities tend to vote for the Democratic Party in elections, and there has been considerable concern regarding restrictions to the rights of said minorities, often (but not exclusively) tied to actions by the Republican Party.
Taking all of that support and throwing it at the GOP seems like it'd be tossing away what protection one has in the hopes that said (presumed) landslide might change some hearts and minds. And if they instead say "hey, thanks for the easy wins, suckers!" and do nothing, said citizens may have managed to set themselves back years or decades of progress.
It seems backwards. The citizenry shouldn't throw votes blindly at people in the hopes that maybe they change, if the politicians want that support they should make efforts to curry their favour.
It's the same silly mental exercise as every anti-gun advocate joining the NRA in the hopes of changing their lobbying efforts, as though the NRA wouldn't take those millions of dollars and simply keep doing what they're doing. Any swell of people large enough to even put a dent in such a groups policies would also require filling their coffers that much further to the brim.
Not to mention that many of the policies/topics in question disproportionately affect minorities.
It's a terrible idea at a glance, and only withers further under scrutiny.
2015/03/20 01:05:52
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Jihadin wrote: You make it sound like all Republicans are white only.
Just 87% of them, that's pretty white considering the demographics across america.
In surveys conducted in 2012, nearly nine-in-ten (87%) Republican and Republican-leaning registered voters are white, while just 11% are minorities. In contrast, 61% of Democrats are white, while nearly four-in-ten are African American (21%), Hispanic (10%) or another race (7%).
Jihadin wrote: You make it sound like all Republicans are white only.
Just 87% of them, that's pretty white considering the demographics across america.
In surveys conducted in 2012, nearly nine-in-ten (87%) Republican and Republican-leaning registered voters are white, while just 11% are minorities. In contrast, 61% of Democrats are white, while nearly four-in-ten are African American (21%), Hispanic (10%) or another race (7%).
Edit: I guess the forum won't accept the first link, if you wish to follow it, use your imagination. It goes into some of the racial attacks Condeleeza Rice received from the other side of the aisle.
The point I'm making in posting this is that some very vocal Democrats routinely try to treat black voters as if they belong to the Democrats...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/20 03:38:01
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/03/20 03:39:05
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Bulworth was, in many way, a pretty crappy movie. But there are moments of political commentary that are just brilliant.
"Are you sayin' the Democratic Party don't care about the African-American community?" Bulworth replies, "Isn't that obvious? You got half your kids are out of work and the other half are in jail. Do you see ANY Democrat doing anything about it? Certainly not me! So what're you gonna do, vote Republican? Come on! Come on, you're not gonna vote Republican! Let's call a spade a spade!"
Democrats have given African Americans lip service for generations, and while people like to talk about 90%+ voting Democrat, most actually vote for no-one - the African American turnout is terrible. Faced between a party who's done nothing to help their economic and social issues, and a party that plays them as villains, most choose no-one, and the rest choose the lip service of the Democrats.
Thing is, ultimately making this an issue about how black people vote is missing the point. Arguing that community at large should vote one way or another for strategic reasons is just impractical. What's needed, basically, is for Republicans to finally give up on the Southern Strategy. That's a policy that paid dividends, but is facing an diminishing return on investment, as white working class voters become less relevant with each election. I mean, consider what happens when Republicans roll out a jobs plan aimed at urban centres. What would Democrats do?
The greatest trick Democrats ever pulled, was convincing African Americans that the Democrat's racist past didn't happen.
And Republicans were in power when the North fought the war, and burned half the South to the ground. Trying to make that an argument not to vote for the current iteration of the party is ridiculous. Organisations move on. People know this, and vote for the people currently running, not the ones who ran in the 60s.
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Prestor Jon wrote: Well, there was that Lincoln guy, he was a Republican. Of course he didn't pass the Affordable Care Act so I can see how he could be easily overlooked.
Yes, it's highly unusual that so few people don't consider the party allegiance of people who've been dead for 150 years when deciding their vote.
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Jihadin wrote: You make it sound like all Republicans are white only.
Have you ever looked at the break down of the Republican vote? It is massively white.
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sirlynchmob wrote: Maybe that's how republicans can reach out. It's well past time america had that conversation and addressed it.
Don't worry, Starbucks in on the case.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/03/20 03:45:05
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/03/20 04:29:06
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Forar wrote: and there has been considerable concern regarding restrictions to the rights of said minorities, often (but not exclusively) tied to actions by the Republican Party.
Well, according to Democrats at least.
I am the Hammer. I am the right hand of my Emperor. I am the tip of His spear, I am the gauntlet about His fist. I am the woes of daemonkind. I am the Hammer.
2015/03/20 04:38:17
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
sebster wrote: I mean, consider what happens when Republicans roll out a jobs plan aimed at urban centres. What would Democrats do?
Could the republican party even do that without losing their vital funding (and possibly votes) from the "NO WELFARE" types? It's kind of like the situation with gay marriage: they're clearly on the losing end of the debate and it's costing them support from everyone but the bigots, but if they ever give up the "we hate all the people Jesus hates" strategy they risk losing a lot of votes without any guarantee that they'll get replacements fast enough to avoid a crippling defeat.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/03/20 04:43:14
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Oh, and here's a graph that shows the basic breakdown of how voting typically works in the US.
The first thing to realise is that voting typically follows income - the less you earn the more likely you'll vote Democrat and the more you earn the more likely you'll vote Republican. That's the yellow lines across the graph, showing income earners under 30k vote Democrat about 65% of the time, while those over 50k vote Republican more.
Against this is plotted the average of different ethnic groups - so African American voters earning an average of about 31k would be expected to vote Democrat 56 or 57% of the time, but instead they're up around 93%. Similarly, Asian Americans, averaging about 65k would be expected to be majority Republican voters, but they still go Democrat 71% of the time.
A similar distinction can be found in Southern Whites, who would be expected to vote Republican on account of the high average income, but instead vote about 85% Republican.
If people can't see the racial make up in voting patterns from that, then I don't know what more to say.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/03/20 04:46:51
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Peregrine wrote: Could the republican party even do that without losing their vital funding (and possibly votes) from the "NO WELFARE" types? It's kind of like the situation with gay marriage: they're clearly on the losing end of the debate and it's costing them support from everyone but the bigots, but if they ever give up the "we hate all the people Jesus hates" strategy they risk losing a lot of votes without any guarantee that they'll get replacements fast enough to avoid a crippling defeat.
That's been the debate inside the Republican party since they started seeing where the demographics were taking them. It really heated up post 2006 & 2008 when Republicans had their worst results. So far the issue has been won each time by people wanting to carry on, there's been a few 'reforms' about changing the way the Republicans say things, but no change to the substance.
On the specifics of a policy on urban jobs, I don't think welfare is the hurdle. Government policy is full of support and infrastructure spending to encourage government jobs in to one area or another. The hurdle is more that such programs typically go to more politically powerful areas - Republicans send that money to farming and regional areas, Democrats send it to unionised industry. The challenge is to get existing special interests to give up some of their benefits to try and chase a new special interest - no easy thing at all.
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cincydooley wrote: So what you're saying is that a "southern white" is more likely to vote Democrat than a Black American would vote Republican?
Do you honestly, truly believe that's the lesson to be drawn from what I posted?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 04:55:19
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/03/20 05:05:44
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
I'm somewhat Republican in my view but in no way a Caucasian. Asian American Here and Proud of It
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2015/03/20 05:29:51
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
Do you honestly, truly believe that's the lesson to be drawn from what I posted?
Of course not.
I do, however, think singling out only "southern white" and "midwest white" is stupid and irresponsible.
Where's "California White?" Or how about "Hispanic White?"
Regardless, my statement is actually supported by that graph. Of all demographics, Black Americans are most likely to vote along a singular party line.
2015/03/20 06:27:49
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
I do, however, think singling out only "southern white" and "midwest white" is stupid and irresponsible.
Where's "California White?" Or how about "Hispanic White?"
Regardless, my statement is actually supported by that graph. Of all demographics, Black Americans are most likely to vote along a singular party line.
Of course they are. That's the thing everyone knew before we came in to this thread. What's interesting is why, and how that lines up against other voting groups.
And that's why the graph doesn't include absolutely every single other regional and ethnic group you can think of - because it's about providing a context for African American voting tendencies, to show how other groups vote with similar variation to what you'd expect given their income. The answer, ultimately, is that with African Americans there's a double whammy - they vary from average income about as much as Southern Whites and Asian Americans, it's just that given they're particularly low income that magnifies the tendency to already vote Democrat.
Incidentally, I will never until the day I die understand the weirdness of the concept of 'Hispanic' in the US.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/03/20 07:26:15
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
A guy can be a native Spanish speaker, second generation migrant, and will be recorded on studies as White/Hispanic or sometimes just as White. An African American guy can have American ancestry going back to the slave ships, speak only English, and he'll be African American.
It blows my mind that the first, which can be massively different culturally, just gets absorbed in to white, while the latter is made as different as possible.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/03/20 11:11:17
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
How about as we're all people, we vote for the views that the candidate supports that go along with what we approve of. Like the guy? Vote for the guy. Hate the guy? Don't vote for him. George Bush Jr. Was an idiot. I wouldn't have voted for him to save my life. Romney was pants on head looney tunes, and flip flopped at every speech he made. Nothing against George Bush Sr. and Bob Dole was alright in my book. I preferred BD over Clinton, and Obama over Romney. I've viewed both sides of the political coin. And that's how it bloody well should be: choosing the guy who more closely relates to what you are looking for. Being locked in to a party is as pants on head stupid as Mittens Dumb gak Romney.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 15:11:17
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
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Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2015/03/20 13:45:23
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote Repu
The one thing that I am having trouble understanding is when "thug" became a racist code word when it instead refers to a type of behaviour (criminal) rather than the colour of skin of the perpetrator. Does it have anything to do with rappers who started the whole "thug life" glorification of violence?
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d-usa wrote: If the majority of crack users are black then any law that punishes crack at a higher level than powder automatically affects black people more. That's basic statistics and has nothing to do with worldviews.
I think people get defensive because they mistake "affects blacks" with "targets blacks".
But when that happens isn't it also used as de facto evidence of racism?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 13:46:26
2015/03/20 13:55:47
Subject: Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
I see it more often used as a blanket dismissal of the argument and people going "you just think they are racist".
It's why I no longer bother even replying to Voter ID threads because the last few always resulted in people pretending that I called the politicians racist.
2015/03/20 14:11:28
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Does no one here have an issue that he is calling for people to vote along race lines? I understand that people according to their socio-economic status may already do this to some extent , but it is the socio-economic status that is important not what country of origin they had 200 years ago.
If the government was aiming to do something for the 'urban poor' then surely they would target along socio-economic lines and not race, as I am sure there are urban poor of every racial description.
Race just seems really important to Americans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 14:12:57
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
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2015/03/20 15:01:23
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Bullockist wrote: Does no one here have an issue that he is calling for people to vote along race lines? I understand that people according to their socio-economic status may already do this to some extent , but it is the socio-economic status that is important not what country of origin they had 200 years ago.
If the government was aiming to do something for the 'urban poor' then surely they would target along socio-economic lines and not race, as I am sure there are urban poor of every racial description.
Race just seems really important to Americans.
"Race just seems really important to Americans."
I was born in the late 70's... so, you can say I'm a product of the 80's / early 90's.
I've had conversations with my elders who lived through the 30's and on... and to a one, we're no where near as racist (culturally) now as it was back in those days.
So, I think it's hard for my generation (and younger) to truly appreciate what it was like and how difficult it was to overcome this part of our history.
Having this sort of discussion can be rather difficult because it's still living memory when folks were treated horribly.
When you ask that Race just seems really important to Americans, there is some truth in that... but, not in the way you'd think.
It's moreabout tribalism than institutional racism these days, imo. (note, I'm not discounting true racism... it still does exist, but it's not as prevalent as it was in those days).
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/03/20 15:09:35
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Your middle aged American Dakkaroos have parents that can remember when a black man could get lynched for whistling at a white woman, and went to schools that were probably segregated by race.
You mention the country of origin, 200 years distant, shouldn't a factor, but there was heavy institutionalized racism in this country up until quite recently. Yes, it's still a large problem even now.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/20 15:13:43
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2015/03/20 15:16:47
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Your middle aged American Dakkaroos have parents that can remember when a black man could get lynched for whistling at a white woman.
You mention the country of origin, 200 years distant, shouldn't a factor, but there was heavy institutionalized racism in this country up until quite recently. Yes, it's still a large problem even now.
Those kind of memories would be dependent upon where in the US our parents or grandparents lived. My grandfather is part of the "Greatest Generation" and he went to integrated schools as a child in Connecticut. When my father wasa kid growing up in Philladelphia (1950s) some parents of his classmates were circulated a petition to stop the integration of the schools (which my grandfather refused to sign and integration was going to happen regardless of some angry parents).
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2015/03/20 15:21:27
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Your middle aged American Dakkaroos have parents that can remember when a black man could get lynched for whistling at a white woman, and went to schools that were probably segregated by race.
You mention the country of origin, 200 years distant, shouldn't a factor, but there was heavy institutionalized racism in this country up until quite recently. Yes, it's still a large problem even now.
Yes. I remember the Klan on TV and towns with signs that read "N***, don't let the sun set on your ass here." and similar. I also remember being in Cali, where my melanin challenged mangy bear keister was also a target, and how browns didn't like blacks, Mexicans didn't like Hondurans etc etc.
Thats why the Great Wienie is superior. He accepts all dogs into His Pack.
you ever seen the old covenants of ownership in a house that were similar? I saw some old deeds in Cali that concerned what groups could own the house.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/20 15:31:06
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2015/03/20 16:56:52
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
Bullockist wrote: Does no one here have an issue that he is calling for people to vote along race lines? I understand that people according to their socio-economic status may already do this to some extent , but it is the socio-economic status that is important not what country of origin they had 200 years ago.
Without being presumptuous, I'm fairly certain that's what sebster is speaking to. It just so happens that for Black Americans, most also fall along the same socio-economic lines. Which isn't the case for white Americans.
I think you'd find that "West Coast Whites" are on the opposite spectrum as "Southern Whites." They have money and overwhelming vote to the left.
@Dreadclaw - The problem with "thug" as a code word is that I truly believe there many people that use it according to it's actual meaning. I think soccer hooligans of all races are thugs. I think violent white criminals are thugs. That follows with the actual definition. However, I think it's become a replacement word for many for "Ni##@$."
I actually made the mistake of commenting on a Blaze Post yesterday about it, because so many people were calling Octavius Ellis (black) a "thug" for the flagrant 2 he got in the UC-Purdue game. I asked if they also though Christian Laettner (white) was a thug for kicking Timberlake in the chest in the 90s. The general consensus was no, Laettner was just a "spoiled punk."
The whole line of conversation was pretty despicable, I was called a "white race baiter" multiple times (whatever the feth that means) and I regret commenting.
2015/03/20 18:47:21
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
"Soldier" is another code word. I mean if we're throwing around code words and stuff.
Edit
New word thrown on me was "HAPA"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 18:50:35
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
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2015/03/20 18:52:35
Subject: Re:Stephen A. Smith: 'What I dream is that for one election ... every black person in America vote GOP
