Switch Theme:

US Declassifies Document Revealing Israel Is Indeed A Nuclear Power  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

I'm surprised by how surprising this is.

I mean, I never looked into it, but I always assumed this was just how it was. I can't say "I knew it all along" or something like that, because I was just blindly assuming of course, but still.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Every Senator voted in favor to impose new sanctions on the Iranians if they get caught cheating on any nuke deal.

Just as bad as that letter...eh?

Are negotiations with Iran still ongoing at this time?

Evidently...

Even France, is voicing concerns with this potential "deal"... and the US is accused of bullying their allies:
Obama Admin Threatens U.S. Allies for Disagreeing with Iran Nuke Deal

U.S. allies snubbed as administration moves toward nuke deal

LAUSANNE, Switzerland—Efforts by the Obama administration to stem criticism of its diplomacy with Iran have included threats to nations involved in the talks, including U.S. allies, according to Western sources familiar with White House efforts to quell fears it will permit Iran to retain aspects of its nuclear weapons program.

A series of conversations between top American and French officials, including between President Obama and French President Francois Hollande, have seen Americans engage in behavior described as bullying by sources who spoke to the Washington Free Beacon.

The disagreement over France’s cautious position in regard to Iran threatens to erode U.S. relations with Paris, sources said.

Tension between Washington and Paris comes amid frustration by other U.S. allies, such as Saudi Arabia and Israel. The White House responded to this criticism by engaging in public campaigns analysts worry will endanger American interests.

Western policy analysts who spoke to the Free Beacon, including some with close ties to the French political establishment, were dismayed over what they saw as the White House’s willingness to sacrifice its relationship with Paris as talks with Iran reach their final stages.

A recent phone call between Obama and Hollande was reported as tense as the leaders disagreed over the White House’s accommodation of Iranian red lines.

Amid these tensions, U.S. Ambassador to France Jane Hartley met with her French counterpart, Gerard Araud, Monday to discuss a range of issues.

Benjamin Haddad, who has advised senior French political figures on foreign policy issues, said leaders in Paris have not been shy about highlighting disagreements they have with the White House.

“Fance, like other European countries, has negotiated for more than 10 years and endured most of the sanctions’ burden,” said Haddad, a research fellow at the Hudson Institute.

“The French want a deal, but they see no rush and repeat that Iranians need a deal more than we do, and that we shouldn’t fix artificial deadlines that put more pressure on us than Iran.”

One source in Europe close to the ongoing diplomacy said the United States has begun to adopt a “harsh” stance toward its allies in Paris.

“There have been very harsh expressions of displeasure by the Americans toward French officials for raising substantive concerns about key elements of what the White House and State Department negotiators are willing to concede to Iran,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “That is because the clarifications expose just how weak the Americans’ deal is shaping up to be.”

“The meeting between the French ambassador in Washington and the president’s envoy to Paris—not a diplomat but a big fundraiser for his campaigns—comes amid these very harsh words that were spoken privately about the ambassador’s recent comments on the seeming American desperation for a deal, and the tough words that President Obama had for President Hollande in their phone call.”

Strategic differences remain between the United States and its allies over how a final deal should look, the source said. The French remain opposed to a recent range of concessions made by the Obama administration.

“We may agree that denying Iran a nuclear weapon ability is the goal, but apparently the view of what one can leave Iran and assure that is very different,” the source said.

“Clearly these are the differences that must be discussed. I don’t see France suddenly deciding that America is right and French objections to weakness are wrong, nor that silence is preferable to transparency.”

Haddad said the French are hesitant to rush into an agreement.

“The French want a robust deal with clear guarantees on issues like [research and development] and inspections to ensure that Iranians won’t be able to reduce breakout time during the duration of the agreement (also an issue of discussion), or just after thanks to research conducted during the period,” he said. “That is also why they disagreed on lifting sanctions.”

He also said the French “don’t trust Iran and believe an ambiguous deal would lead to regional proliferation.”

Another Western source familiar with the talks said the White House is sacrificing longstanding alliances to cement a contentious deal with Iran before Obama’s term in office ends.

“The President could be hammering out the best deal in the history of diplomacy, and it still wouldn’t be worth sacrificing our alliances with France, Israel, and Saudi Arabia—key partners in Europe, the eastern Mediterranean, and the Gulf,” the source said. “But he’s blowing up our alliances to secure a deal that paves Iran’s way to a bomb.”

A State Department spokesperson declined to comment on the issue.

Meanwhile, talks between the United States and Iran reached a critical juncture Thursday, as Secretary of State John Kerry met with his Iranian counterpoint to hash out differences over key points concerning Iran’s nuclear program.

The sides are hoping to reach a framework agreement by March 31 amid reports that Iran is demanding Saudi Arabia immediately halt airstrikes in Yemen, where Iran-aligned forces are working to bring down the Western-backed government.

The issue could complicate the talks as the United States attempts to balance its regional alliance with Iran in Iraq against competing interests with traditional allies in Saudi Arabia.

U.S. negotiators have reportedly softened their stance in recent days on a range of issues relating to Iran’s continued production of nuclear materials. One of Iran’s nuclear sites in Fordow could continue to operate, according to the Associated Press.


Again... this administration's foreign policy is in shambles.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

What else is new? Has the sky changed color to this lovely blue hue recently?

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Every Senator voted in favor to impose new sanctions on the Iranians if they get caught cheating on any nuke deal.

Just as bad as that letter...eh?

Are negotiations with Iran still ongoing at this time?


Heck, if we can provide CAS to Quds force and their militias in Tikrit, the least we can do is negotiate with them.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Stubborn Hammerer





 whembly wrote:


“The President could be hammering out the best deal in the history of diplomacy, and it still wouldn’t be worth sacrificing our alliances with France, Israel, and Saudi Arabia—key partners in Europe, the eastern Mediterranean, and the Gulf,” the source said. “But he’s blowing up our alliances to secure a deal that paves Iran’s way to a bomb.”


Like this will somehow stop us from ever working with those countries again. I mean, they're still free to do what they want to Iran.


That being said, I wouldn't lift sanctions until after inspectors have been behind every locked door. I haven't heard anything positive about were the negotiations were going. Also, I heard that part of the agreement gave Iran greater nuclear freedom after ten years than we currently allow South Korea.


Also, also, it's weird to me that more of the world doesn't already have nukes.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

That is about to change.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 whembly wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Every Senator voted in favor to impose new sanctions on the Iranians if they get caught cheating on any nuke deal.

Just as bad as that letter...eh?

Are negotiations with Iran still ongoing at this time?

Evidently...

Even France, is voicing concerns with this potential "deal"... and the US is accused of bullying their allies:
Spoiler:
Obama Admin Threatens U.S. Allies for Disagreeing with Iran Nuke Deal

U.S. allies snubbed as administration moves toward nuke deal

LAUSANNE, Switzerland—Efforts by the Obama administration to stem criticism of its diplomacy with Iran have included threats to nations involved in the talks, including U.S. allies, according to Western sources familiar with White House efforts to quell fears it will permit Iran to retain aspects of its nuclear weapons program.

A series of conversations between top American and French officials, including between President Obama and French President Francois Hollande, have seen Americans engage in behavior described as bullying by sources who spoke to the Washington Free Beacon.

The disagreement over France’s cautious position in regard to Iran threatens to erode U.S. relations with Paris, sources said.

Tension between Washington and Paris comes amid frustration by other U.S. allies, such as Saudi Arabia and Israel. The White House responded to this criticism by engaging in public campaigns analysts worry will endanger American interests.

Western policy analysts who spoke to the Free Beacon, including some with close ties to the French political establishment, were dismayed over what they saw as the White House’s willingness to sacrifice its relationship with Paris as talks with Iran reach their final stages.

A recent phone call between Obama and Hollande was reported as tense as the leaders disagreed over the White House’s accommodation of Iranian red lines.

Amid these tensions, U.S. Ambassador to France Jane Hartley met with her French counterpart, Gerard Araud, Monday to discuss a range of issues.

Benjamin Haddad, who has advised senior French political figures on foreign policy issues, said leaders in Paris have not been shy about highlighting disagreements they have with the White House.

“Fance, like other European countries, has negotiated for more than 10 years and endured most of the sanctions’ burden,” said Haddad, a research fellow at the Hudson Institute.

“The French want a deal, but they see no rush and repeat that Iranians need a deal more than we do, and that we shouldn’t fix artificial deadlines that put more pressure on us than Iran.”

One source in Europe close to the ongoing diplomacy said the United States has begun to adopt a “harsh” stance toward its allies in Paris.

“There have been very harsh expressions of displeasure by the Americans toward French officials for raising substantive concerns about key elements of what the White House and State Department negotiators are willing to concede to Iran,” said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “That is because the clarifications expose just how weak the Americans’ deal is shaping up to be.”

“The meeting between the French ambassador in Washington and the president’s envoy to Paris—not a diplomat but a big fundraiser for his campaigns—comes amid these very harsh words that were spoken privately about the ambassador’s recent comments on the seeming American desperation for a deal, and the tough words that President Obama had for President Hollande in their phone call.”

Strategic differences remain between the United States and its allies over how a final deal should look, the source said. The French remain opposed to a recent range of concessions made by the Obama administration.

“We may agree that denying Iran a nuclear weapon ability is the goal, but apparently the view of what one can leave Iran and assure that is very different,” the source said.

“Clearly these are the differences that must be discussed. I don’t see France suddenly deciding that America is right and French objections to weakness are wrong, nor that silence is preferable to transparency.”

Haddad said the French are hesitant to rush into an agreement.

“The French want a robust deal with clear guarantees on issues like [research and development] and inspections to ensure that Iranians won’t be able to reduce breakout time during the duration of the agreement (also an issue of discussion), or just after thanks to research conducted during the period,” he said. “That is also why they disagreed on lifting sanctions.”

He also said the French “don’t trust Iran and believe an ambiguous deal would lead to regional proliferation.”

Another Western source familiar with the talks said the White House is sacrificing longstanding alliances to cement a contentious deal with Iran before Obama’s term in office ends.

“The President could be hammering out the best deal in the history of diplomacy, and it still wouldn’t be worth sacrificing our alliances with France, Israel, and Saudi Arabia—key partners in Europe, the eastern Mediterranean, and the Gulf,” the source said. “But he’s blowing up our alliances to secure a deal that paves Iran’s way to a bomb.”

A State Department spokesperson declined to comment on the issue.

Meanwhile, talks between the United States and Iran reached a critical juncture Thursday, as Secretary of State John Kerry met with his Iranian counterpoint to hash out differences over key points concerning Iran’s nuclear program.

The sides are hoping to reach a framework agreement by March 31 amid reports that Iran is demanding Saudi Arabia immediately halt airstrikes in Yemen, where Iran-aligned forces are working to bring down the Western-backed government.

The issue could complicate the talks as the United States attempts to balance its regional alliance with Iran in Iraq against competing interests with traditional allies in Saudi Arabia.

U.S. negotiators have reportedly softened their stance in recent days on a range of issues relating to Iran’s continued production of nuclear materials. One of Iran’s nuclear sites in Fordow could continue to operate, according to the Associated Press.


Again... this administration's foreign policy is in shambles.

What I don't understand is why the US is prepared to abandon long standing allies over this. What is the US gaining in return?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
That is about to change.

This could be the start of an arms race between Iran and Saudi Arabia. If so then the conflict with ISIS will not end anytime soon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/27 21:12:35


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

 Peregrine wrote:
Does it really matter? Everyone knows they have nukes, so what does official confirmation of it add to that knowledge?



Thinking your wife is cheating and knowing she's cheating I'd imagine.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 KingCracker wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Does it really matter? Everyone knows they have nukes, so what does official confirmation of it add to that knowledge?



Thinking your wife is cheating and knowing she's cheating I'd imagine.

Heh... good analogy.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 d-usa wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
So, we have leaked data about Israel spying on us (which has been happening since at least the 70s) and confirmation of their nuke program just days after Netanyahu wins re-election?

The declassification of their nuke program happened a month and a half ago, not "days after the election".

My fault for taking news reports at face value. To be fair, it was an open secret for so long that I didn't think I needed to fact check the date the report was actually declassified.


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

The instructive moral of this story, I think, is that when you google up a breaking news story and see it only being covered by a very specific group of sites - Brietbart, Hotair, Redstate, the derposphere in other words - it requires scrutiny.

From Hotair, for example:

Tensions between Israel and the U.S. are high because of Obama’s unrelenting hostility toward Israel, and verbal barbs have been tossed around for years. Then, Netanyahu spoke to Congress. Then, Israel revealed information about the Obama Administration’s talks with Iran to Congress. So, how does this mature, grown-up of a president respond? He reveals the type of information that empowers, emboldens, and enables ours and Israel’s enemies to begin a nuclear arms race.


This despite their own story shows such a timeline is not possible.

Caveat emptor, I guess.


IMO I think the mark of actual journalism isn't so much if a story is wrong - it happens, I think - but what happens when it turns out a story is wrong. For example, when DailyKOS ran the Trig Palin conspiracy stories years ago, and then it turned out to all be a big fat lie, rather than do a mea culpa and retract it; they simply disappeared all of the stories they ran. That is is when I stopped reading DailyKOS. I'm not saying you guys need to stop reading Breitbart per se but but you should at least consider what a site like that thinks about you and your intelligence when it doubles down on what are provable untruths because it tells the story they like.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/28 01:14:34


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: