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 Desubot wrote:
How to beat tau?

Lots and LOTS of LOS blocking Terrain.

Fast moving units that can duck in and out of LOS

Barrage weapons with ignore cover to punk Marker lights.

Then run up and punch em

And if you don't have the LOS blocking terrain? What then? An army should be fair on any table. Remember that there is no terrain standard in 7th.

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
How to beat tau?

Lots and LOTS of LOS blocking Terrain.

Fast moving units that can duck in and out of LOS

Barrage weapons with ignore cover to punk Marker lights.

Then run up and punch em

And if you don't have the LOS blocking terrain? What then? An army should be fair on any table. Remember that there is no terrain standard in 7th.

Make more since there is no terrain standard.

Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
How to beat tau?

Lots and LOTS of LOS blocking Terrain.

Fast moving units that can duck in and out of LOS

Barrage weapons with ignore cover to punk Marker lights.

Then run up and punch em

And if you don't have the LOS blocking terrain? What then? An army should be fair on any table. Remember that there is no terrain standard in 7th.

Make more since there is no terrain standard.

Yep. Most people play with at least 1/3 of the table having terrain. I've rarely seen people want to stand at two ends of an open battlefield and shoot at each other.

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

You need new opponents.


Most opponents i play want MORE terrain as it allows for interesting dynamics.

Seriously, city and jungle boards. Keep in mind, I play tau (always have), and I love heavy terrain boards.

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

You need new opponents.


Most opponents i play want MORE terrain as it allows for interesting dynamics.

That's a non-trivial problem.

Terrain doesn't slow down games because terrain, it only slows them down because the movement pause is then necessary to win.

My tables are pretty heavy with terrain, and if cost is an issue, the Terrain Tutor on YouTube is an awesome source of quick and dirty options that can really change a game.

Martel732 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

You need new opponents.


Most opponents i play want MORE terrain as it allows for interesting dynamics.

That's a non-trivial problem.

Well not much can be done when you are stuck in the endless vortex of WAACS with endless WS, WK, IKs and other things that have Wraith or knights in it eh?

With new eldar on the horizon, that list of problems may well change

I have zero faith after the Necrons. The Eldar will probably get better!

Played the new necrons a couple times, not really understanding where the hype is comming from.
New necrons don't have any option for psyckers, so no extra shooting, and no magic buffs to scatter around. So, they increased survivability a little to compensate. To be honest, I was getting tired of utilizing loopholes to shut the last codex down. Started to feel a bit cheesy...

If you want to beat Tau buy 3 s. pylons and then ally in 3 eldar hornets. Alternatively just buy 9 eldar hornets.

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

Terrain is an integral part of the game. This is nothing new. Refusing to use it destroys whatever semblance of balance the game had, strips the game of most of its strategy, and shifts the balance so far in favor of shooting armies that it's not even funny. I've NEVER played in a meta where players refuse to use a decent amount of terrain. That is NOT a good gaming group. Wow is that stupid. They might as well remove armor, invul, FNP, and all other saves, because those slow down the game too. In fact, if they don't give a crap about playing the game right, why not just roll off on a D6, and whoever gets the highest result wins? All that other stuff just slows down the game! Also, it would be much more fair than playing an assault-based army against a shooty army without terrain.

 fallinq wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

Terrain is an integral part of the game. This is nothing new. Refusing to use it destroys whatever semblance of balance the game had, strips the game of most of its strategy, and shifts the balance so far in favor of shooting armies that it's not even funny. I've NEVER played in a meta where players refuse to use a decent amount of terrain. That is NOT a good gaming group. Wow is that stupid. They might as well remove armor, invul, FNP, and all other saves, because those slow down the game too. In fact, if they don't give a crap about playing the game right, why not just roll off on a D6, and whoever gets the highest result wins? All that other stuff just slows down the game! Also, it would be much more fair than playing an assault-based army against a shooty army without terrain.

Seriously. If your opponent wants zero terrain, I would refuse to play him. That's an auto loss against Tau, no matter what your list is.

Yeah, I'll vote for more terrain, too. It's actually not hard to create. Our local store went to a post supply company and bought the long cardboard poster tubes, cut them up and mounted them with some electrical boxes on some hardboard. Spray them metallic and base the board and you've got some industrial terrain that blocks LOS really well.

Also, how does he always have three objectives in such a tight little corner, in which he's able to hide for that 3+ cover save all the time? If he places one at the very limit of deployment, that is 6" from two different table edges, he can have another at 18" and 6", and another 18" and 6" in the other direction. Then another at the rectangular to that. But that's 4 objectives. In a mission where you've got 6 objectives, he's only able to place three of them. And you know what you can do if you get to place an objective first?

Stick it barely inside that inner-most corner. Bam, suddenly that entire corner is LOCKED down and no more objectives can go there. He'll have to try for another corner.

And know what? This is all before deployment TYPE and table side are rolled for. So if he's always deploying these three objectives there, then he's asking to get the short end of the stick and have to come to you.

Also, the riptides cannot ignore cover on their own. Get in a ruin and go to ground for a 3+ of your own for any footsloggers. Wait for his commander and melta suits to come down, then jump on them and kill them. Then go on about your business. Shouldn't have taken too many casualties by then.

Try deep striking your fragile vehicles, and deploying a few squads in ruins. Then go second. As long as you're not tabled by the end of turn ONE, you should be able to get some reserves in during your turn 2 and jump on his suits that have arrived.

I am sorry but I don't see how the tau list is scary in the lest. It has 4 marker lights that will miss half the time and one unit that gets Ignore cover.

Can sky rays split fire the missiles? I am not sure of the rules on them. They only have 6 missiles. Can shot what up to 2 or is it 4 a turn? Can fire at one target a turn.

Last time I cheeked black sun filters only work vs. Night fight. So stealth and shrouded work fine for most of the army?

Having terrain would help. but you should be right up in his grill by turn 2 easy.

As for his army getting 3+ cover saves... How?
Even if he is in terrain he has to be 25% obscured. otherwise he is jinxing. Hitting you on 6'.

How far away are you deep striking in on him?
I thought Dark Eldar didn't scatter when the came in that way? Getting a inch away from his tanks will stop him from dropping the Large blast from the riptides on you.

How do the Riptides ignore cover?? if the sky rays are using the ignore cover for their missiles???

 fallinq wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Most opponents I play with will refuse to use it because "it slows down the game".

Terrain is an integral part of the game. This is nothing new. Refusing to use it destroys whatever semblance of balance the game had, strips the game of most of its strategy, and shifts the balance so far in favor of shooting armies that it's not even funny. I've NEVER played in a meta where players refuse to use a decent amount of terrain. That is NOT a good gaming group. Wow is that stupid. They might as well remove armor, invul, FNP, and all other saves, because those slow down the game too. In fact, if they don't give a crap about playing the game right, why not just roll off on a D6, and whoever gets the highest result wins? All that other stuff just slows down the game! Also, it would be much more fair than playing an assault-based army against a shooty army without terrain.

We have a lot of terrain usually, just none of it blocks LOS. I get as much cover as I want. Too bad cover sucks for marines.

Martel732 wrote:
I have zero faith after the Necrons. The Eldar will probably get better!

You know what the real problem with the WS was? It could be assaulted and shots fired at it weren't all snapshots. Solution: Make it a flyer that starts in zoom mode on the table in turn 1.

Units are designed and costed based on the assumption of a certain amount of terrain. If you want to get rid of terrain, shooting units should have their costs increased by at least 50%.

Play Maelstrom. It is the bane of all 'parking lot' style armies and forces movement to win. Even if you are taking casualties each turn, if you can grab your objective (which should be easy with Harlequins) you can still have a game.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Seriously, city and jungle boards. Keep in mind, I play tau (always have), and I love heavy terrain boards.

I'm in the same boat, but my opponents are concerned that too much terrain will hinder melee advance.
What can I do

Keep an eye on his markerlight situation.

If he has just enough, kill some MLs.
If he doesn't have enough, force his hand.
If he has too many, kill his few sources of dakka.

Use LOS-blocking where possible.

Cover helps most armies, too, as it takes MLs for most things to ignore it. Which is fewer MLs elsewhere.

Maelstrom should make gunlining you a lot harder.

For the big stuff (Riptides and other suits), focus. Better to kill 1 suit than a drone in each squad. The first four wounds on the Riptide do nothing.

For vehicles, force a jink, then move on. Two jinking Hammerheads are worse dakka than one dead and one untouched.

That seems to be a decent summary of fighting gunline Tau, right?

If you want line of sight blocking terrain, that won't impede movement much, but the fortress "keeps" from mage knight. They have a door on two opposite sides, and you can assault when exiting a building.
It would allow you to move 6" to the door, sit in the building for a turn, then deploy 6" out of the other side of a 6" building. Really allows some movement shenanigans, and makes that particular piece of terrain important. Plus side, they are cheap as all get out on EBay!

I've never had issue, also, seems like he was running a cheese list. Instead of blaming the army, why don't you actualy talk to you opponents and ask them what they think you should have done. Tau isn't this unstoppable army, they ONLY shoot good. plenty of ap3/4 on a fast unit, decent spacing, and running 2 5-man units instead of 1 10-man to deal with overwatch should balance against regular lists. when dealing with a player who loves his riptides, either a ton of shots or poison is the way to go.

Honestly, I cant say how bad you must have played if you say THAT list is OP, and that tau in general are OP (and even funnier to say its WORSE in turnies!)


For starters, its not even a good tau list. hardly any multipliers, 2 sets of 2 BS4 markerlights means that he can, on average, ignore cover for 1 riptide on 1 target per turn, and it takes two whole tanks shooting at it to get it done, if you think an ignores cover S8AP2 pieplate is too much for a combo that costs about 410 points before any other upgrade is too much, you got a problem.

Devilfish with fire warriors are HORRIBLE. they only work semi-effective with a ethreal inside, a unit that is VP bait. they are easily the worst transport in the game, filled with units that do not want to be transported to begin with.

Not to mention that fusion suits are meaningless against DE/quins. literally the WORST pick he could make, other than naked suits. these things have no targets to shoot at in your army, and they serve as under-preforming plasma guns.




As for the "tau are so OP in geneal" whine, tua has not won a single big turny from the moment 7th came out.
They have not even come in the TOP TEN of any turny lately.
You know what won LVO? nids. second place? SoT and BA.
Armies that "dakka wisdom" calls "unplayable bad"


So freaking sick and tiered of these threads.
Had you asked for actual tactical help, so be it. but you were given plenty of it, and you shrugged it all off as if none but you knows anything, and continued in your barrage of claims that any relation between them and reality is purely coincidental.

Halquins are not even a BAD matchup against tau! heck, even DE are not any more. all their LD shenanigans? tau are the most vulnerable army in the game to them! blocking long-range shooting? that's all tau DO. They care little for cover? you got invuls everywhere!

Seriously, youi have every tool you need, you just refuse to use any of them, or to adapt your tactics in the slightest. you are not looking for a game, you are looking for an easy win, and too bad-you are not getting one.
Had you bothered listening to any of the VAST number of advice given on this thread, you would have had a rather easy time fighting such a list, but you insist of being thick-headed.

And as such, you deserve no more advice, and I shall give none. despite knowing very well how to fight tau with DE/quinns (gave advice on it just the other day for a RL friend after we duked it out a few)
I advise the rest of you to do the same. this boy cannot be helped until he will be willing to accept help. currently he is only here to complain, not to learn.

Fascinating thread, but I have to agree with a lot of the advice here (the actual advice, not the "OMG!!").

Some say playing against tau are unforgiving - well guess what? Playing tau is incredibly unforgiving.

Their troops are t3 with a 4+ save (and those are the durable troops...). Kill them.

Kill the markerlights. - the rest of the army folds very badly without them. Riptides are laughable without marker support.
(note: the new xv109 riptides are a bit OP, ask your opponent to not play them until they get final rules).
Kill the crisis suits. Use the board, look at firing lanes.

Target priority is very important. In my last game against tau, he had two riptides - I just ignored them - and killed the markerlights first.
This pretty much neuters the riptides. Then, I manuvered ap2 weaopons near him - he used his reactors - and then they failed and took wounds (1/3 failure rate is brutal).
I was not even going to shoot them, I used melta to vaporize the poor t4 crisis suits.

Then I lured his firewarriors into the open, and slaughtered them. I baited him to waste his skyray' seekers on units I did not care about.
(tau players FREAK out when faced with an assault unless they are very disciplined). Once thier seekers were gone, and I killed the troops the skyrays were easy pickings for assault.

Are tau still strong? yes. the days of them being OP are gone, with the loss of battlebrother psykers.

Still having a problem? Ask one of the tau players in your area to swap with you - play them. You will realize just how painful bs3 is, and how incredibly important markers are.
Also, their lack of access to cheap buffs (psypower, fnp, etc.) without having to drop 200 points on a buff commander.

STUDY every game, think what could i have done better? where did something die? Where did I outrange him but get too close?
How many targets did I make him choose between? Tau actually have very few options for ap1 and 2 - their troops can't get anything like that, or any of their transports.
Learn them, kill them. Rinse, repeat.

Tau have always been interesting to play, many people hated it because of the steep learning curve, but I loved the 4th edition tau codex to bits (also literally in my case).

Another "Waaaaa, Tau, Waaaaa" thread.

Please. As BoomWolf mentioned, Harlies+DE aren't even hard countered by Tau...but even if they were, wake up, this is 40k! It's an RPS game. I don't cry to my mommy when I get steamrolled by an invisible combat deathstar, GK+SM centstars or bullrush daemon armies with a combo of invis and grimoire. You know what I do? Laugh with my opponent as my squishy Tau commies get eaten by khornedogs.

You have two options, learn to play your army better, or play a different army. You'll earn no sympathy here if you refuse those options.

 The Shrike wrote:
Another "Waaaaa, Tau, Waaaaa" thread.

Please. As BoomWolf mentioned, Harlies+DE aren't even hard countered by Tau...but even if they were, wake up, this is 40k! It's an RPS game. I don't cry to my mommy when I get steamrolled by an invisible combat deathstar, GK+SM centstars or bullrush daemon armies with a combo of invis and grimoire. You know what I do? Laugh with my opponent as my squishy Tau commies get eaten by khornedogs.

You have two options, learn to play your army better, or play a different army. You'll earn no sympathy here if you refuse those options.

Great advice. /sarcasm

Some lists are plain unbeatable. I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just saying that if you take no Anti-Tank against a mech army, you're going to lose. OP wanted some advice and people responded, no one's crying for their mommy here.

Besides, I'll take a "Waaaa, Tau, Waaaa" thread over "Waaaa, Belakor+Flying Circus" or "Waaaa, Wave Serpents" thread any day.