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Akiasura wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
The only players they listen to are the GW inhouse players.

aka the writers

and they dont play like everyone else.

They never have, either. And that's the problem. They design a game based around how they play, which is the deviation not the norm and expect everyone else to play the same way, yet they never actually state what that way is (apart from hints indicating that it's generally terrible play). Even 20 years ago they would talk about that stuff in White Dwarf battle reports.

I think looking at the battles in the 3rd edition rulebook gives a good indication.

The marines pretty much curb stomped the eldar. Neither side took many tanks (one vyper?), and the tactics were just god awful. I remember deciding to play eldar after that since I assumed marines must be overpowered, and I didn't want to be that guy.

Well a lot of times they were limited by the Studio army, but yes most of their battle reports were just odd with what they took. Although a few times I recall them stating that they had to refight the battle report because the first time was too one-sided to print. Whether that means they chose a different army to give a better outing though I can't say.

I mentioned this point when the sky was falling. I REALLY like the new Necron codex! I really like how they are incredibly true to the fluff with ALL the units. Everything's good, even if some things are marginally better than others. A Decurion, arguably the most powerful way of fielding Necrons, is also pretty much the fluffiest way of fielding them.

I haven't fought the new Eldar yet, but it seems they are extremely... ELDAR-y. The Warhosts appear to make a lot of sense for how the Eldar fight.

Unfortunately, since GW doesn't talk with its customers about their design intentions, we don't know if they're making these much more powerful on purpose or not. If it's just these two armies (or these two plus one) that get the super-buff, then I'll be upset. If this is the direction for ALL new codexes going forward, then I'll be very impressed! I'd love to see this treatment given to my Nids and Orks and Chaos Space Marines.

My greatest fear is that the backlash causes them to turn around on this experiment. If they turned around after the Necrons, it'd not be an issue. Since they didn't, a turn-around now would be terrible. I want more books like this now that we're at this point, not fewer!

 Yarium wrote:
I mentioned this point when the sky was falling. I REALLY like the new Necron codex! I really like how they are incredibly true to the fluff with ALL the units. Everything's good, even if some things are marginally better than others. A Decurion, arguably the most powerful way of fielding Necrons, is also pretty much the fluffiest way of fielding them.

I haven't fought the new Eldar yet, but it seems they are extremely... ELDAR-y. The Warhosts appear to make a lot of sense for how the Eldar fight.

Unfortunately, since GW doesn't talk with its customers about their design intentions, we don't know if they're making these much more powerful on purpose or not. If it's just these two armies (or these two plus one) that get the super-buff, then I'll be upset. If this is the direction for ALL new codexes going forward, then I'll be very impressed! I'd love to see this treatment given to my Nids and Orks and Chaos Space Marines.

My greatest fear is that the backlash causes them to turn around on this experiment. If they turned around after the Necrons, it'd not be an issue. Since they didn't, a turn-around now would be terrible. I want more books like this now that we're at this point, not fewer!

My first reaction to reading and playing against the new Necron was that... well, it was obviously "4+ AGAIN? YOU JUST TOOK A 4+ SAVE!" but right after that, it was that the codex seemed that have a fantastic internal balance.

And about GW battle reports, oh my. The units they have used have always been laughable. If you make a game like this and then balance it depending on what your painting studio has painted up for you, you're doing miniature games wrong.

Changing design direction every 3-6 months does not result in all the fans getting what they want, it results in all the fans not getting what they want.

Even if I was super happy with the New Eldar Codex, I know that in 6 months they will have changed the theme again and my "new" codex will now be behind the times.

Pick a direction, stick to your guns until the end, and then when starting a new version take in the last 5 years of feedback filter it for the gold ideas and polish them up ready for the re-release.

3rd ed was all about small codexes and a new start.
5th ed was all about bringing in more tanks
6th was about bringing infantry back to the fore with air support.... while it lasted.
Now 7th is about everything and nothing, a format change every few releases and no idea is held for long, which means they are all bad ideas.

Am I the only one starting to feel like the game is getting WAY too complicated to play?
An army can easily be two codex, one or two dataslates, and an imperial armour book.

And now we're getting an AdMech codex split up in at least two parts.

If they could stick with a concept longer than a kid with ADHD we would probably get 4 CSM books and 4 Demon books next time.

And just finding the right dataslate and imperial armour book is an art more than science.

There was a time when I needed the rulebook and a codex. I quite liked that.

 Purifier wrote:
Am I the only one starting to feel like the game is getting WAY too complicated to play?
An army can easily be two codex, one or two dataslates, and an imperial armour book.

And now we're getting an AdMech codex split up in at least two parts.

If they could stick with a concept longer than a kid with ADHD we would probably get 4 CSM books and 4 Demon books next time.

And just finding the right dataslate and imperial armour book is an art more than science.

There was a time when I needed the rulebook and a codex. I quite liked that.

The whole game errr "shared experience" feels like someone went off their adderall.

 Purifier wrote:
Am I the only one starting to feel like the game is getting WAY too complicated to play?
An army can easily be two codex, one or two dataslates, and an imperial armour book.

And now we're getting an AdMech codex split up in at least two parts.

If they could stick with a concept longer than a kid with ADHD we would probably get 4 CSM books and 4 Demon books next time.

And just finding the right dataslate and imperial armour book is an art more than science.

There was a time when I needed the rulebook and a codex. I quite liked that.

An army can easily be very complicated to play, that does not mean it has to. You can still roll a single codex and a rulebook, nothing is stopping you.

I personally like that there is a plethora of options for codex's and supplements. It gives me a feeling of choice and personality instead of seeing the same vanilla codex's every game.

 clamclaw wrote:
I personally like that there is a plethora of options for codex's and supplements. It gives me a feeling of choice and personality instead of seeing the same vanilla codex's every game.

Yes, instead you see dreadknights in every single space marine flavour.
And I am playing it the way I wanted to. But it is making my armies much much weaker than my opponent that cherry picks the strongest things from every part of the hobby.
I'm not saying that competitive mentality is wrong, I'm just saying it was sort of forced onto a game that I liked a lot, and still do while I'm not playing against those people.

And now I'm being told that the game isn't balanced for my type of gaming, that's why some armies are really weak and others are really strong. Because I have to account for allies.

 Purifier wrote:

 clamclaw wrote:
I personally like that there is a plethora of options for codex's and supplements. It gives me a feeling of choice and personality instead of seeing the same vanilla codex's every game.

Yes, instead you see dreadknights in every single space marine flavour.

I suppose that really depends on your local meta and if people are rolling with stronger lists. I play more with friends and regulars where power gaming is not really an issue (lucky me maybe?). Even if someone comes out with a strong netlist, it's not the end of the world. Playing with cool looking models and fluffly lists is more fun than winning personally, but to each their own.

 Yarium wrote:
I mentioned this point when the sky was falling. I REALLY like the new Necron codex! I really like how they are incredibly true to the fluff with ALL the units. Everything's good, even if some things are marginally better than others. A Decurion, arguably the most powerful way of fielding Necrons, is also pretty much the fluffiest way of fielding them.

I haven't fought the new Eldar yet, but it seems they are extremely... ELDAR-y. The Warhosts appear to make a lot of sense for how the Eldar fight.

Unfortunately, since GW doesn't talk with its customers about their design intentions, we don't know if they're making these much more powerful on purpose or not. If it's just these two armies (or these two plus one) that get the super-buff, then I'll be upset. If this is the direction for ALL new codexes going forward, then I'll be very impressed! I'd love to see this treatment given to my Nids and Orks and Chaos Space Marines.

My greatest fear is that the backlash causes them to turn around on this experiment. If they turned around after the Necrons, it'd not be an issue. Since they didn't, a turn-around now would be terrible. I want more books like this now that we're at this point, not fewer!

Well that's the problem isn't it? There's no telling that any book will be the same power level, stronger or weaker than the on before it; it's seemingly at random or rather they come up with rules they think fits the fluff best and roll with it but I doubt they look at the context and come up with rules in isolation.

 Purifier wrote:
Am I the only one starting to feel like the game is getting WAY too complicated to play?
An army can easily be two codex, one or two dataslates, and an imperial armour book.

And now we're getting an AdMech codex split up in at least two parts.

If they could stick with a concept longer than a kid with ADHD we would probably get 4 CSM books and 4 Demon books next time.

And just finding the right dataslate and imperial armour book is an art more than science.

There was a time when I needed the rulebook and a codex. I quite liked that.

Well, it make sense in the light of TSR.

Thing is, there is so many opinions on what would be good that GW could do literally ANYTHING and you could say "well it's what people asked for" because somewhere at some time someone probably DID ask for it.

But really I think we have to assume GW don't listen to their customers OR we have to assume that are complete fething idiots who are incapable of filtering customer comments in to a cohesive product.

 Purifier wrote:
Am I the only one starting to feel like the game is getting WAY too complicated to play?
An army can easily be two codex, one or two dataslates, and an imperial armour book.

And now we're getting an AdMech codex split up in at least two parts.

If they could stick with a concept longer than a kid with ADHD we would probably get 4 CSM books and 4 Demon books next time.

And just finding the right dataslate and imperial armour book is an art more than science.

There was a time when I needed the rulebook and a codex. I quite liked that.

Not the only one no. My major blocker in getting back into 40K is that's its too bloody convulated to throw down and have a simple game, having not played since just after 6th was released. I can't make head nor tail of whats going on with all the super special rules with the special kewl names.