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Made in us
Sinewy Scourge




Boulder, Colorado

why not?

gork and mork are chaos entities, and they are not worshipped per se' via chaos though.

what if the writers of the bible got stuff wrong? It was (from an athiest, or non christian point of view, the writing of a crazy guy in the desert)

   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Disclaimer: I am a believing Christian from a liturgical church. What follows reflects what I know and believe about Satan, and does not reflect all Christian points of view. It's also why I tend to capitalize 'He' when I refer to God.

Satan's purview is more toward being the Prince of Lies than a combat monster. Deception and double dealing are more his thing than a straight-on fight. His persona is far more that of a slick lawyer than a warrior. In that way he's more like Tzeentch than Khorne. Satan is far more likely to manipulate his victims into doing his dirty work than to pick up a weapon himself. By the time the fight starts you've already been defeated.

To paraphrase an old quote, 'Satan's best trick was convincing the world he didn't exist.'


In Matthew 4:8-9 Satan tempted Jesus by showing him all the kingdoms of earth in their glory. Satan said 'All these things I will give to you if you fall down and worship me.' Again, that suggests tremendous political power and the military might behind it more than combat prowess. And again, it sounds more like Tzeentch than Khorne. Also interesting - Satan actually wanted Jesus' worship.

The only time Satan's combat power is ever really considered is in the accounts of the War in Heaven. Lucifer was the greatest of the Archangels prior to his fall, so he's likely to be formidable in combat. On the other hand, according to Christian folklore, he was defeated by the Archangel Michael, who was theoretically less powerful in personal combat. Satan was cast into Hell, ending the War in Heaven. Whether that speaks more of Satan or Michael's combat prowess is an open question.

One might also argue that Michael was God's enforcer, the general of the Celestial Host, and therefore is the warrior of the Christian mythos. Lucifer might well be 'more powerful' overall without being a skilled combatant.

Comments about God's beneficence aside, God is clearly overwhelmingly powerful compared to Satan. It's worth noting that Christian folklore never portrays God taking a direct war in the War in Heaven. It's implied that had He done so the war would have ended instantly, though it's never explained why He did not intervene. In the Book of Job Satan needs God's permission to test Job; he has to wheedle to get that permission, and even then God places conditions that Satan never even tries to circumvent. It can be argued that in Job Satan appears almost like a subordinate, though it might well be that the Prince of Lies play-acted his old subservient role in order to get a shot at a valued human target.

Keep in mind that Job is part of the Old Testament. Christian folklore does not entirely apply.

In fact, modern depictions of Satan's realm are mostly derived from the Book of Revelation - the final book of the New Testament, and traditionally the last one written, almost a generation after Jesus ascension. Our visions Satan and Hell were cemented by Dante Alighieri in his Inferno, part of his trilogy The Divine Comedy.

Inferno reflects Christian folklore as seen through the lens of the Renaissance, looking back at the horrors of the 'Dark Ages' - the Fall of Rome, the Black Plague, the Islamic conquests, the Vikings, the Huns, the Mongols, etc. With all these catastrophes, each of which crushed 'civilization as we know it' it's no wonder European religious folklore had become pretty Apocalyptic by Dante's time.

Of course, the 40k universe has no real concept of a Creator God, let alone a benevolent one. Comparing Satan to God is something of an aside.

Hopefully this post gives some insight into the power and character of Satan from a Christian perspective to carry on the discussion as the OP suggested.

My two cents.

I feel like satan could be seen as a mix of all of the gods of chaos, no?
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





I can't help but feel that Khorne wins without a doubt in this match up, regardless of point of view.

If we are playing by 40k rules, most religions believe their deity is all powerful and has no limits. The worshipers of chaos tend to believe that of their respective gods, do they not? So saying that Lucifer would win if God wanted him to seems a little far fetched.

However, here is an interesting twist of logic for you.

Someone in here said that 40k doesn't really show a creator god in any of it's lore. While true, we as humans have shown to be quick to label things we don't understand as the workings of a higher power. If the 40k lore were reality, I believe there were some things out there that hinted at Humanity being created / evolved by the Old Ones. if this is true, we would not be the first species to label the Old Ones as gods (Eldar Pantheon, I believe it was mentioned in another thread that some of their gods could be seen as Old Ones).

The Old ones demonstrated more than enough power to make early humans believe in some sort of creator being. And since you brought it up, the Grim Reaper or the Horseman of Death is supposed to be The Nightbringer leaving a genetic imprint on our species. So, even though as already mentioned, the Horseman don't particularly have anything to do with this question, I thought it was worth mentioning it as it supports the theory that the Old Ones were involved with Humanity in some fashion.

So then, if the question has been answered as to who would win from Khorne vs Satan, and the answer is Khorne unless God was directly involved. The question then becomes, could God beat Khorne? If God were an Old One, could they beat an ancient and mighty warp being?

Actually... come to think of it, this line of thinking brings about quite a few questions about modern religion and 40k "history"
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest






I feel like, in that scenario, khorne would win seeing as the violence itself feeds him. He is a godlike being, while the old ones were just aided by tech (methinks)
   
Made in au
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





All of the Chaos Gods represent the Devil in different forms:
-Khorne is the Devil as Satan (Wrath)
-Nurgle is the Devil as Beelzebub (Pestillence)
-Tzeentch is the Devil as Lucifer (Scheming)
-Slaanesh is the Devil as Asmodeus (Lust)

So, to answer your question, the Devil would win, as he would have the power of all four chaos gods put together. He could of be considered the ultimate Chaos God. I also must say that I see a flame war coming.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/20 13:56:16


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Satan: total followers max a small % of the earth
Khorne: Total followers a small % of the empire + unknown regions

I vote Khorne.

Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

Satan. The chaos gods are originally based on him split four ways (lord of murder/destroyer, the deceiver, liar, lord of flies, the dark prince etc). Ergo Khorne is only 1/4 of Satan, hypothetically.

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