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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 06:04:50
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I was running single CADs for awhile to not take advantage of battle brother buffs
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 06:48:01
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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I wonder how common it is for a person to be willing to scale down a list when asked? I mean its certainly uderstandable to ask an opponent to play "nicer" until you can both feel out the others strength right?
For example, if the game is at my house, I let my opponent pick the army they want to fight. I never pick it. When I play at a store, I never place terrain unless they are new enough that they are struggling with "how to do it" but even then I'll say "okay now change it up if you dont like it".
I feel though that if i am testing an army out and i am unsure of its components at this point, i do ask my opponent not to take a hard countering type of list. I dont get a lot of push back on that. Do other people find it hard to ask someone to lower their list down if they are trying something new?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/11 06:48:34
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 06:56:40
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Calculating Commissar
pontiac, michigan; usa
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Experiment 626 wrote: Peregrine wrote: godardc wrote:Yeah I know, but people say they house rule it to make the enemy shooting at your invisible unit bs 1/attacking your unit ws1 instead of snapshoting/ hitting on a 6.
I was curious to know why, what is the goal
The goal is that it's unbelievably stupid for certain weapons to be unable to fire at all against invisible units, especially when those weapons are the ones a "real" unit would find most effective against a target they can't see clearly.
Personally I feel that nerfing all shooting to BS1 is enough to make Invis not broken - leave the "hit only on 6's in assaults" alone. It successfully opens up the invisible unit to what should be it's natural counters - namely fire (template weapons especially).
However, WS1 isn't that huge a disadvantage, as it only typically reduces a unit/model's hit rate by 16-33% of what it would normally be. And with the ease of gaining re-rolls nowadays, (Divination, Zealot, Hatred, Prefered Enemy, etc...), being forced to hit on 5's isn't that huge an issue.
If anything, Invis should add the ability for the invisible unit to also ignore the effects of charging into cover! It would definitely make it the more assault oriented augment it's really meant to be.
Yeah or if anything there should be some units with the special ability to shoot at invisible units with ease (special targeting equipment). That or just give it a straight up cover bonus or something. Basically something easier to negate than snap fire on everything and no blasts allowed.
How do psychic powers tend to do against invisibility (certain ones)? I've been out of 40k since 5th and I'm coming back for 7th but I've heard lots of nasty things about invisibility.
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Join skavenblight today!
http://the-under-empire.proboards.com/ (my skaven forum) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 07:02:04
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I have never taken my brass scorpion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 09:35:45
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 10:13:24
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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flamingkillamajig wrote:
How do psychic powers tend to do against invisibility (certain ones)? I've been out of 40k since 5th and I'm coming back for 7th but I've heard lots of nasty things about invisibility.
Invisibility is the worst power in 40K as written. it stops you from targetting a unit with flamers or blasts, makes you shoot to hit only on 6's and in melee 6's. Kinda ridiculous. Its really powerful o ncertain units like Centurions.
In any event, the counter is to have enouh psykers on your side of the table. and thats takes a major points invesment and really basically you have to form your list around nerfing this one thing you might fear. Not awesome.
Using the Nerf'd rule of BS and WS 1, that now allows the blasts and flamers ot target them and its only 5;s in close combat and 6's still on shooting directly. Makes the affected unit at least five you a fighters chance.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 13:48:53
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Jancoran wrote: flamingkillamajig wrote:
How do psychic powers tend to do against invisibility (certain ones)? I've been out of 40k since 5th and I'm coming back for 7th but I've heard lots of nasty things about invisibility.
Invisibility is the worst power in 40K as written. it stops you from targetting a unit with flamers or blasts, makes you shoot to hit only on 6's and in melee 6's. Kinda ridiculous. Its really powerful o ncertain units like Centurions.
In any event, the counter is to have enouh psykers on your side of the table. and thats takes a major points invesment and really basically you have to form your list around nerfing this one thing you might fear. Not awesome.
Using the Nerf'd rule of BS and WS 1, that now allows the blasts and flamers ot target them and its only 5;s in close combat and 6's still on shooting directly. Makes the affected unit at least five you a fighters chance.
WS1 in assaults is too much of a nerf to Invis. As I mentioned above, there's plenty of ways to gain re-rolls to hit in close combat these days, which makes even WS1 almost a non-issue.
BS1 instead of strait snap-shots is definitely a needed nerf to Invis however.
Also, Nova powers still reliably put hits on an Invisible unit, since the only targeting restrictions are simply 'X' auto hits when within Y" of the caster. It's just too bad right now that Nova powers are in short supply, with Cleansing Flame being the best one.
If you can't access Nova powers yourself? Chuck all your dispel at the Invis attempt. Or else bring a viable tarpit of your own that can bog down the deathstar until you can take out the offending psyker with Invisibility.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 22:00:49
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Well thats my opinion. I think Invisibility being deleted is the better course but barring that, WS 1 and BS 1 fixes it to an extent I dont really have a problem with.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 22:43:06
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Jancoran wrote:Well thats my opinion. I think Invisibility being deleted is the better course but barring that, WS 1 and BS 1 fixes it to an extent I dont really have a problem with.
Assault in general needs all the help it can get. Invisibility is a huge equalizer in what is otherwise a massively skewed system.
Yes, it's current version goes too far, to the point that the power is game breaking. But nerfing it to the point that Imperials can pretty much ignore its effects entirely is equally dumb.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 22:51:07
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Well again, just an opinion. I am not one who thinks assault needs more help. so there's that.
And the subject is downplaying. I feel like if you said to me "Hey my army sucks at melee, so can I use Invisibility this way or that" that would be one thing, but if your army essentially relies on close combat and does it well, I think asking for that concession might be... iffy?
So its all in the context of the army your facing probably.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 23:01:23
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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WS1 is still 5+
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / Fallout Factions: BoS / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/11 23:13:45
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Between Prescience, Zealot, Hatred, Priests, etc... it's not hard for Imperials especially to gain re-rolls to hit in combat.
WS1 is at worst a mild irritant for the Super BFF Kool-Aid Club.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/12 10:00:07
Subject: Re:"Downplaying"
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
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This may be a language problem.
It "to tell someone to" used as "force someone to do"?
When I wrote "we told the Eldar Player to bring only 66% of the point limit" I liked to say "we (the Eldarplayer and the rest of the gaming group) agreed, that this is probably the best way to have fun again"
1200 points of Eldar can still win against 1800 points CSM/BA/SoB. But it will take them 6 turns instead of 2.
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Please correct my english. I won't get any better if you don't. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/12 13:09:27
Subject: "Downplaying"
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Enginseer with a Wrench
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In terms of Invisibility, just bring back 6th ed.'s Stealth+Shrouded+ws1 in close combat. Still really strong, but nowhere near as OP as it is right now.
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