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2016/04/26 02:19:24
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
If Leicester City win the Premier League, it will be one of the most captivating British sport stories in years. But how does a football-mad Englishman living in the US explain its importance to Americans?
"Lie-kester."
"No, Leicester."
"Less-ester?"
"No, Leicester. As in Lester."
"Oh. Why is it pronounced like that?"
Trying, and failing, to explain the mystery of English phonetics can be a daily task for Brits living in the US.
But when it comes to the Leicester City story, the how-to-say is not the only part that's lost in translation.
For those not yet aware, a small, unfashionable team based in England's East Midlands has somehow stormed the Premier League.
With four games left, Leicester City are five points ahead of anyone and barring a collapse, on course for their first top-flight league title in their 132-year history.
This team was in the third tier of English football in 2009, and after climbing to the top division, they spent months last season in bottom place.
They weren't just out of fashion, they were a byword for failure.
In 2008, when they were relegated to the equivalent of the third division, the Guardian newspaper wrote:
The crowds still filed in, greeting each new season with optimism, but all too soon the realisation dawned that the cheers from the stands were for nothing - everything the club once embodied had been hollowed out from the inside, leaving only a desiccated blue and white husk.
As recently as 18 months ago, the chairman of Marseilles said he would be a "sucker" to take an interest in signing any Leicester City player.
And their Algerian star player Riyad Mahrez says he thought they were a rugby club when they first expressed an interest in him
Should they win English football's most prestigious prize, some say the feat would be the most unlikely event in the history of team sports. Globally.
Bookmakers' odds on them winning the Premier League were 5,000 to one last summer. So it was five times more likely that Hugh Hefner would declare himself a virgin.
For a British sports fan living in the US, there's a natural inclination to share this footballing fairytale with friends. This, after all, is a story as much about the human spirit as it is about scoring goals.
Writing in The Players' Tribune, their manager Claudio Ranieri said: "This is a small club that is showing the world what can be achieved through spirit and determination. Twenty-six players. Twenty-six different brains. But one heart."
But mention Leicester City to American friends who don't closely follow English football and a blank look is the stock response. Or worse, a nod and a smile. Even from sports fans.
It's understandable. I'd have the same reaction if someone tried to enthuse me about, say, the San Diego Padres being on a winning streak.
So how to put it in terms that my American friends would understand? Has there ever been an American Leicester?
For help, I turned to team mates of mine on the football pitches of Shaw, a neighbourhood of Washington where every Friday night, the replica shirts of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal worn by locals give the scene a semi-English flavour.
"Oakland As in baseball?" suggests Drew, a tough-tackling Wisconsinite, referring to the famous Oakland Athletics team under Billy Beane who used analytics to overcome more glamorous opponents, winning 20 games in a row in 2002.
Nice story but they never won the World Series, which is the equivalent of what Leicester could achieve in the weeks ahead.
Next?
"OK, how about Minnesota Twins?" says Joe, who supports West Ham.
"In 1991, they went from bottom of the American League West to winning 95 games on their way to a World Series title.
"And in gridiron in 1999, the St Louis Rams accomplished a similar feat, following a last-place finish in '98 with a championship of their own the very next year. "
Both good examples of an amazing one-season turnaround, but for teams with pedigree that's admirable, not historic.
There are structural reasons why the Premier League / US sport comparisons are imperfect.
There is no promotion or relegation in NFL or baseball, so a smaller team can't rise up through the ranks like Leicester has, in a way that pitches David against Goliath.
And the NFL operates a more level playing field than the Premier League, through a salary cap and by giving the weaker teams first pick of the best college players.
In English football, the reverse happens - the rich clubs tighten their grip on success because a higher placed finish gets a bigger cash reward and therefore they buy the better players. It's a virtuous circle of success feeding money feeding success.
As a consequence, only five teams have won the Premier League since it was set up in 1992. In that period, 14 teams have won the Superbowl.
That's what makes Leicester's potential feat on a comparative shoestring so remarkable, breaking into a rich elite. When they beat Manchester City recently, they overcame a squad that cost 15 times their own
Wichita, Kansas, similar population (roughly 375,000)
New Orleans, Louisiana, similar diversity (Leicester is majority non-white, 55%)
Belle Fourche, South Dakota, similar location (the geographical centre of England is Fenney Drayton in Leicestershire)
So if it hasn't happened in the US, what WOULD be the nearest thing to a Leicester triumph?
"The idea of Leicester winning the Premiership would be like the Cleveland Browns winning the Superbowl - unthinkable, and seemingly impossible," says Jeff Maysh, a British writer and football fan who is based in Los Angeles.
"In history there have been a couple of comparable performances in college basketball, which is more akin to a team winning the FA Cup on a lucky run, rather than Leicester's dominance in the league."
Grant Wahl of Sports Illustrated thinks there's no direct comparison but the nearest would be if an AA (third division) baseball team managed to find its way - magically - to the major leagues and then won the World Series.
He puts Leicester's success down to the implosion of several of the big English clubs like Chelsea, some astute Leicester signings and new manager Ranieri.
After a troubled summer when the last manager resigned after a Thai brothel scandal involving his son, the club turned to a man whose Greece side had just lost to the Faroe Islands. Suffice to say, hopes were not high.
Now Ranieri is a folk hero in the East Midlands and there's even talk of a knighthood from the Queen.
There is also an English king's hand in their success, if you believe in superstition. Ever since Richard III's body was dug up from a car park in Leicester and restored to the city's cathedral a year ago, their fortunes have turned around.
The Very Reverend David Monteith of Leicester Cathedral has said that the re-interment added to the sense of civic pride.
"History has been buried and now it's revealed in all kinds of different ways, not least in the [football] match."
The Leicester story is so rich that sex scandals in the Far East and royal influence from beyond the grave are mere footnotes.
But back in Shaw, my footballing team mates have drawn a blank in trying to give it a US context.
"There really isn't an American sports analogy to Leicester," says Andrew, a Liverpool fan from Baltimore. "It has to be the most stunning underdog story in sports history."
Perhaps the best comparison lies not in sport but in politics, he says.
"Everyone said Donald Trump would falter in December but here we are in April wondering how he's defied the odds."
If England and America truly are two nations divided by a common language then sporting talk is where the chasm is at its widest. The different vocabulary used by fans in the US and UK - not just England - when discussing the same sports seems as entrenched as ever.
Maybe it's just me, but I figured that everybody knew the correct way to pronounce Leicester City. I do, but I've been to the United Kingdom when I was in the Service.
Proud Purveyor Of The Unconventional In 40k
2016/04/26 02:28:32
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
I think there is possibly nothing more boring on the internet than people posting that the sports they were raised with are awesome, while the sports other people were raised with are bad.
What is interesting though is amazing sporting underdog stories. Whether you like soccer or not, when a bunch of guys who are paid 15 times less than the biggest teams in the league manage an upset win it’s pretty cool. And what Leicester has achieved is way beyond that – they’ve managed that kind of underdog performance through a 38 game season. It is incredible – it’s akin to Shaun Michael’s US PGA win early last decade – except instead of managing that one win from out of nowhere, it’s as if the guy then went on to a massive streak of wins and claim the #1 ranking.
It’s hard to find sporting results this unlikely, because honestly there aren’t that many leagues in any sports where things are so heavily favoured towards the top teams. But when it happens anyone who loves sport kind of needs to pay appreciate what has just happened, even if it is in a sport you don’t really care for.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/04/26 04:30:24
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
It’s hard to find sporting results this unlikely, because honestly there aren’t that many leagues in any sports where things are so heavily favoured towards the top teams. But when it happens anyone who loves sport kind of needs to pay appreciate what has just happened, even if it is in a sport you don’t really care for.
From everything that I've read, last years' Highlanders winning the Super Rugby title was along the same lines as this feat.
But I do agree, especially in most American professional sports, there is a level of parity that means that a team that wins a championship isn't a mere fluke (even if people write/talk as if they are)
2016/04/26 05:06:23
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Not Leicester City related, but hopefully not totally Off Topic since it covers the growing soccer culture in the US. But here is a nice documentary about one of the tifos that the supporters group that I am a part off put together. You also get a 1 second long glorious clip of me waving a fancy flag if you pay attention
2016/04/26 07:49:12
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
The UK's leading bookmakers face paying out more than £10m if Leicester City win the Premier League title.
.. shame eh ?
At the start of the season, 47 people placed a bet with Ladbrokes for Leicester to win the title at 5000-1 - of which 23 have cashed out, while 24 are still awaiting their fate.
"Leicester's win would be the biggest upset in the history of betting," Alex Donohue of Ladbrokes told BBC Sport. "It would be the worst result for us financially and our biggest payout by a distance.
"If Chelsea, Manchester City or Manchester United would have won, the total payouts would have been in the few hundred thousands.
"Leicester have been upsetting the odds all season but it is a brilliant Hollywood story that we are a part of. Hats off to anyone who backed them at the start of the season."
Last month, a Leicester fan cashed out for £72,000 from a £50 bet on his team to win the title.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/04/26 14:05:19
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
I believe that doing so is something of a recent innovation.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/04/27 07:31:32
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Ensis Ferrae wrote: From everything that I've read, last years' Highlanders winning the Super Rugby title was along the same lines as this feat.
I know pretty much nothing about Super Rugby, or how its league operates, but I’d be keen to hear the story if you want to tell it.
But I do agree, especially in most American professional sports, there is a level of parity that means that a team that wins a championship isn't a mere fluke (even if people write/talk as if they are)
Baseball has disparity that's not as severe as premier league soccer, but comparable. It’s interesting that it is in sports like baseball and soccer that you can have a functioning, sufficiently competitive league without putting salary caps and drafts in place. Probably because in sports with relatively few scoring events, and an inherent amount of randomness due to the way the game works, you can get a kind of equalisation.
In American Football, or here in Australia in Australian Rules Football, if one team has more money and buys up players that are 10% bigger, 10% faster and 10% more skilful, then they’ll pretty much just steamroll the other side. But in sports like baseball and cricket the team that’s 10% slower and 10% less skilful is still a chance, if they take their wins at the key moments.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/04/27 12:21:24
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
This does seem a lot more incredible now that I know that Soccer doesn't have any balancing rules like salary caps and drafts.
Makes the sport even less appealing when someone can just buy all the good players to win. Also it makes this underdog story a bit sad too since the guys winning could really be making a ton more at another team.
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
SlaveToDorkness wrote: This does seem a lot more incredible now that I know that Soccer doesn't have any balancing rules like salary caps and drafts.
Makes the sport even less appealing when someone can just buy all the good players to win. Also it makes this underdog story a bit sad too since the guys winning could really be making a ton more at another team.
On the surface, soccer does seem like the worst excesses of capitalism: dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, the strong survive, the weak perish
But, it has promotion and relegation, knock-out cup competitions...all of which boost entertainment.
And some of these rich teams weren't always rich - Manchester City used to be a bad joke in English football until a rich Arab bought them.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2016/04/27 14:15:29
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
SlaveToDorkness wrote: This does seem a lot more incredible now that I know that Soccer doesn't have any balancing rules like salary caps and drafts.
Makes the sport even less appealing when someone can just buy all the good players to win. Also it makes this underdog story a bit sad too since the guys winning could really be making a ton more at another team.
It's an achievement but not as magical as it seems. The premier league does have some balancing mechanism, there is a squad size cap and it shares its massive TV revenue quite equally. In addition the league's income advantage allows even minor clubs to buy quality players from other leagues. Leicesters owners, a Thai business conglomerate, have invested quite a bit in players in recent years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/27 14:16:35
2016/04/27 15:36:24
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
One mid table side over-performing isn't miraculous, but all 5 of the big money teams under performing in the same season is. Given that the Spurs are now in second place who normally always end up outside the top 4 just show how rare that occurrence is.
2016/04/27 20:13:31
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
But back in Shaw, my footballing team mates have drawn a blank in trying to give it a US context.
"There really isn't an American sports analogy to Leicester," says Andrew, a Liverpool fan from Baltimore. "It has to be the most stunning underdog story in sports history."
Perhaps the best comparison lies not in sport but in politics, he says.
"Everyone said Donald Trump would falter in December but here we are in April wondering how he's defied the odds."
If England and America truly are two nations divided by a common language then sporting talk is where the chasm is at its widest. The different vocabulary used by fans in the US and UK - not just England - when discussing the same sports seems as entrenched as ever.
Is the massive funding disparity similar to Steve and Jeff down the street winning the F1 title with the car they built in their garage?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2016/04/27 20:35:10
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
But back in Shaw, my footballing team mates have drawn a blank in trying to give it a US context.
"There really isn't an American sports analogy to Leicester," says Andrew, a Liverpool fan from Baltimore. "It has to be the most stunning underdog story in sports history."
Perhaps the best comparison lies not in sport but in politics, he says.
"Everyone said Donald Trump would falter in December but here we are in April wondering how he's defied the odds."
If England and America truly are two nations divided by a common language then sporting talk is where the chasm is at its widest. The different vocabulary used by fans in the US and UK - not just England - when discussing the same sports seems as entrenched as ever.
Is the massive funding disparity similar to Steve and Jeff down the street winning the F1 title with the car they built in their garage?
Almost.
Imagine Manor F1 winning the drivers and constructors championships. They may pick up a cheeky point but you really expect them to go bust or change owners.
2016/04/27 22:32:16
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Ensis Ferrae wrote: From everything that I've read, last years' Highlanders winning the Super Rugby title was along the same lines as this feat.
I know pretty much nothing about Super Rugby, or how its league operates, but I’d be keen to hear the story if you want to tell it.
But I do agree, especially in most American professional sports, there is a level of parity that means that a team that wins a championship isn't a mere fluke (even if people write/talk as if they are)
Baseball has disparity that's not as severe as premier league soccer, but comparable. It’s interesting that it is in sports like baseball and soccer that you can have a functioning, sufficiently competitive league without putting salary caps and drafts in place. Probably because in sports with relatively few scoring events, and an inherent amount of randomness due to the way the game works, you can get a kind of equalisation.
In American Football, or here in Australia in Australian Rules Football, if one team has more money and buys up players that are 10% bigger, 10% faster and 10% more skilful, then they’ll pretty much just steamroll the other side. But in sports like baseball and cricket the team that’s 10% slower and 10% less skilful is still a chance, if they take their wins at the key moments.
First easy one: Baseball does have a draft... however, unlike sports like say the NBA, or NFL, guys who get drafted into pro baseball are basically signed to a minor league deal, and then have to work up through the ranks (until recently I thought that the minor league teams were literally one single entity, owned by the major league club owner... But apparently each minor league team has its own ownership, they are literally trading contracts and people as though they were stocks or 40k models) That said, I do think that there are merits to the "academy system" that I see in England, or the provincial/regional selection process that New Zealand has for rugby, as the team ownership have a fairly decent idea of what it is they are getting in a player by the time they get to the "main" club.
As for the Highlanders... well, last year, Super Rugby had 3 divisions, SA, Australia, and NZ. In February, before the season kicked off, pretty much all of the pundits picked the 'Landers to finish at or near the bottom of the NZ table (Playoffs are determined by winning your division, with wildcard spots being determined by the more traditionally seen points table), Instead, they managed to play well enough to get one of the wild card spots, and then ran through everybody in the playoffs, winning the championship. This was in part because of the superstar, breakout play of some characters, as well as how "lucky" they were on the injury front.
Sadly, pundits are doing much the same thing to them this year (calling for a low finish)... but I've watched a number of videos and read articles on the restructured Super Rugby competition.... and still have pretty much no clue. They restructured because of adding some more teams, and needed a way to balance that out for playoffs.
But back in Shaw, my footballing team mates have drawn a blank in trying to give it a US context.
"There really isn't an American sports analogy to Leicester," says Andrew, a Liverpool fan from Baltimore. "It has to be the most stunning underdog story in sports history."
Does nobody read history??? There's the 1980 US Olympic hockey team beating an "unbeatable" Soviet team. There's the 1967 Jets, who won Super Bowl 3 against the Green Bay Packers (coached by legendary Vince Lombardi, and had players like Bart Starr and other HoFers) which happened during an era in which the AFL (now called the AFC, and part of a merged football league) really was an upstart nobody type league.
If I pull up the "way back in history" machine, there's the 1920 and 1924 US Olympic rugby team. Each year (and only 2 years, until Rio that Rugby was in the Olympics) the American team managed to take home gold, despite the majority of the team having grown up playing American Football. In 1924, it was especially shocking because in the gold medal match, they defeated a very robust and experienced French team. The scene was quite ugly, fans stormed the pitch apparently with intent to beat up or harm the Americans. The French players formed a ring around their American counterparts and got them back into the dressing rooms safely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/27 22:42:20
2016/04/28 03:44:47
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Ensis Ferrae wrote: First easy one: Baseball does have a draft... however, unlike sports like say the NBA, or NFL, guys who get drafted into pro baseball are basically signed to a minor league deal, and then have to work up through the ranks (until recently I thought that the minor league teams were literally one single entity, owned by the major league club owner... But apparently each minor league team has its own ownership, they are literally trading contracts and people as though they were stocks or 40k models) That said, I do think that there are merits to the "academy system" that I see in England, or the provincial/regional selection process that New Zealand has for rugby, as the team ownership have a fairly decent idea of what it is they are getting in a player by the time they get to the "main" club.
A draft doesn’t really achieve anything without a salary cap. If a team drafts well but has a tiny budget they’ll get raided long before those players have matured.
As for the Highlanders... well, last year, Super Rugby had 3 divisions, SA, Australia, and NZ. In February, before the season kicked off, pretty much all of the pundits picked the 'Landers to finish at or near the bottom of the NZ table (Playoffs are determined by winning your division, with wildcard spots being determined by the more traditionally seen points table), Instead, they managed to play well enough to get one of the wild card spots, and then ran through everybody in the playoffs, winning the championship. This was in part because of the superstar, breakout play of some characters, as well as how "lucky" they were on the injury front.
But Super Rugby still has salary caps and drafts, doesn’t it? At least I’ve assumed it has because how else could the Western Force continue to survive in a town that doesn’t give a single feth about Rugby Union?
If there are salary caps and drafts in place, then I don’t think this is quite the same as Leicester’s win. I think there’s a lot of instances of teams that are unflavoured having good seasons. In the AFL last year West Coast was picked to finish last or close to it, but ended up in the grand final (where they were smashed, but it was still something to get there). What makes Leicester’s win incredible is that the very structure of the competition is designed to give just a few teams a chance of winning.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2016/04/28 04:37:25
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
sebster wrote: A draft doesn’t really achieve anything without a salary cap. If a team drafts well but has a tiny budget they’ll get raided long before those players have matured.
But Super Rugby still has salary caps and drafts, doesn’t it? At least I’ve assumed it has because how else could the Western Force continue to survive in a town that doesn’t give a single feth about Rugby Union?
If there are salary caps and drafts in place, then I don’t think this is quite the same as Leicester’s win. I think there’s a lot of instances of teams that are unflavoured having good seasons. In the AFL last year West Coast was picked to finish last or close to it, but ended up in the grand final (where they were smashed, but it was still something to get there). What makes Leicester’s win incredible is that the very structure of the competition is designed to give just a few teams a chance of winning.
You are right that teams with small budgets are often "raided" for players... But because of the system set up in baseball of the minor leagues, a small market team may be raided of very low round picks (as in, players from the 50th round) that turned out to be excellent prospects under the right conditions, whereas their top picks from the first few rounds didn't pan out. It's why I think if you pay attention to player trading in baseball, you see the majority of "prospect trades" are players that are playing in AA and AAA ball (the upper levels of the minors, or "almost big league ready" type guys)
AFAIK, rugby in the southern hemisphere doesn't have a draft either. Perhaps others can fill us in, but I thought NZ and such used a similar setup to the English with an "academy" system.... I do know that the Chiefs, Blues, Hurricanes, Crusaders, and Highlanders are "select" teams comprised of players chosen from the ITM cup teams. So in a way, the ITM cup acts as a sort of minor leagues for the Super Rugby franchises (and by extension, the All Blacks)
But I do agree with you.... most leagues, even Super Rugby are designed to be competitive. BPL and soccer in general don't seem to share that view, which makes it something of a wonder to me why so many people remain fans of the sport.
2016/05/02 04:06:58
Subject: Re:Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Antario wrote: One mid table side over-performing isn't miraculous, but all 5 of the big money teams under performing in the same season is. Given that the Spurs are now in second place who normally always end up outside the top 4 just show how rare that occurrence is.
Even as a Spurs fan I'm still very happy for Leicester and will cheer for them wholeheartedly when they clinch the title. As for the other big 4 (last year's top 4):
Chelsea - Exploded due to Mourinho's 3rd year curse. No team should keep him beyond the second year ever again.
Man City - Focused primarily on Champions League due to Pellegrini only caring about that. Even if he won the league Guardiola would still replace him.
Arsenal - Only ever finish 3rd or 4th these days. This isn't under achieving for them, it is exactly their goal.
Man Utd - Continued their slide into post-Fergie reality, sped along by the board's inability to declare their decision re Van Gaal.
So it is not so much a case of big money failing but upper management not reading the trends.
2016/05/02 13:55:21
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
And they've done it. Spurs were held to a 2-2 draw by Chelsea, crowning the Foxes Premier League champions for the first time in the club's history, and earning their place as one of the greatest success stories in the English football league.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 00:22:20
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2016/05/02 21:07:40
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2016/05/02 21:15:31
Subject: Explaining the Leicester City story to Americans
