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 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you have any actual sources of this?

Being against supporting Israel's policy does not make one antisemitic.
The irony of your statement is impressive though, considering the right had a presidential candidate who got support from white nationalist groups that actually are antisemitic.

For UK MSM sources:
http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/labour-antisemitism-row

France
http://www.jta.org/2017/01/30/news-opinion/world/socialist-primary-winner-in-france-had-backing-of-prominent-anti-semites

Scandinavia
http://www.thetower.org/article/the-scandal-of-scandinavia/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/anti-semitism-in-the-eu-sweden

http://www.timesofisrael.com/facing-death-chants-and-hate-crimes-swedens-jews-live-in-a-climate-of-fear/

There are more of course but I don't want to spend all day at it. Also just think of any conversation you have had on the subject of Israel with any self-identified leftist, they always take a very pro-palestine position and anti-isreali. If a jew gets stabbed they say they deserved it, if a palestinian carries out a bombing they say they were innocent and oppressed. You are implying that anti-semitism can be neatly separated from anti-zionism but it cannot actually and this is why. All peoples are looking to advance their tribe's interests and often those interests come into conflict with other tribes, the conflict between palestinians and zionists is a straight up a example of this. If the jews win there then the muslims lose, if the muslims win there then the jews lose. To support the muslims on this issue is to be anti-jew. Some leftist politicians like Ken Livingstone and George Galloway in th UK seem to be drifiting into anti-semitism because they are courting muslim votes. I am not sure exactly what is motivating the rank and file leftist though, that may be more complex. A driver for them is envy of the rich so it may have come to their attention that jews tend to be pretty well off.

For White Nationalists they were of course a by-word for anti-semitism but with the increasingly huge influx of muslims into Europe they have switched to perceiving muslins rather than jews as the greater threat to their tribal interests to the extent that some are seeing jews as potential allies to point where it is becoming common to see the occasional Isreali flag being flown at white nationalist rallies...

All this merely reinforces my point that the grab bag of policy positions that get tacked to broad labels like "left" and "right" don't say anything useful.

 SolarCross wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Do you have any actual sources of this?

Being against supporting Israel's policy does not make one antisemitic.
The irony of your statement is impressive though, considering the right had a presidential candidate who got support from white nationalist groups that actually are antisemitic.

For UK MSM sources:
http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/labour-antisemitism-row

France
http://www.jta.org/2017/01/30/news-opinion/world/socialist-primary-winner-in-france-had-backing-of-prominent-anti-semites

Scandinavia
http://www.thetower.org/article/the-scandal-of-scandinavia/

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/anti-semitism-in-the-eu-sweden

http://www.timesofisrael.com/facing-death-chants-and-hate-crimes-swedens-jews-live-in-a-climate-of-fear/

You really want to claim these are unbiased sources?

There are more of course but I don't want to spend all day at it. Also just think of any conversation you have had on the subject of Israel with any self-identified leftist, they always take a very pro-palestine position and anti-isreali.

That's not even remotely true, but okay.

If a jew gets stabbed they say they deserved it, if a palestinian carries out a bombing they say they were innocent and oppressed. You are implying that anti-semitism can be neatly separated from anti-zionism but it cannot actually and this is why. All peoples are looking to advance their tribe's interests and often those interests come into conflict with other tribes, the conflict between palestinians and zionists is a straight up a example of this. If the jews win there then the muslims lose, if the muslims win there then the jews lose. To support the muslims on this issue is to be anti-jew. Some leftist politicians like Ken Livingstone and George Galloway in th UK seem to be drifiting into anti-semitism because they are courting muslim votes. I am not sure exactly what is motivating the rank and file leftist though, that may be more complex. A driver for them is envy of the rich so it may have come to their attention that jews tend to be pretty well off.

For White Nationalists they were of course a by-word for anti-semitism but with the increasingly huge influx of muslims into Europe they have switched to perceiving muslins rather than jews as the greater threat to their tribal interests to the extent that some are seeing jews as potential allies to point where it is becoming common to see the occasional Isreali flag being flown at white nationalist rallies...

All this merely reinforces my point that the grab bag of policy positions that get tacked to broad labels like "left" and "right" don't say anything useful.

It also neatly reinforces the point that you have no idea what you're actually talking about. You've taken a stance and decided to say whatever necessary to reinforce that stance.

 SolarCross wrote:
France
http://www.jta.org/2017/01/30/news-opinion/world/socialist-primary-winner-in-france-had-backing-of-prominent-anti-semites

From the article: “Hamon disavowed Soral and Dieudonne.”
And, unlike Trump, he didn't have to be backed in a corner to do so. You are really, really grasping at branches here if you want to use this to show antisemitism is a leftist thing .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SolarCross wrote:
So are you saying Pahlavi Shah was a left winger?

I am a bit confused where you read that given that my message says literally nothing about Pahlavi.

 SolarCross wrote:
The US establishment is predominantly left wing?

Uh?

 SolarCross wrote:
The USSR was right wing because of their persecution of homosexuals?

Sure, it's totally the main thing about the USSR.

 SolarCross wrote:
When Stalin purged all the jews out of the bolshevik party and secret police he was a right winger then but would be a left winger now?

???

 SolarCross wrote:
Chavez claimed to be a practicing Catholic and also visited the pope, so I guess he was a right winger.

Did he claimed his politic was inspired by religion? Does it seem plausible that it was?

 SolarCross wrote:
Now "progress" has been conscripted by leftists to mean something else. It means becoming more leftist and nothing else.

Wait, I thought your whole point was “Left means nothing”. This is in direct contradiction to your whole point.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You really want to claim these are unbiased sources?

I am not making that claim. Let me clue you up, there are no unbiased sources, all sources have bias. What is interesting is who takes which bias. Do you think leftist anti-zionist protestors are unbiased?

I guess the sources you are offended by are the jewish ones. Really who else would be better for noticing anti-semitism than a jew? Would you reject a claim of white on black racism if it was made a black person? Would you call that biased implying it was a false claim? I bet not. See you have bias too.

 SolarCross wrote:
I guess the sources you are offended by are the jewish ones.

Maybe you should stop guessing other people's opinion?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:
I guess the sources you are offended by are the jewish ones.

Maybe you should stop guessing other people's opinion?

A figure of speech. Most of the sources I gave were jewish ones; what else could he mean by crying that they were biased?

 SolarCross wrote:
A figure of speech.

You should stop assuming other people's opinion, if guessing isn't the right word. If you want to know why he said they were biased, maybe ask him. I don't know those and I can't comment on them, but very right-wing Jewish sources will obviously have a bias against the left because, well, they are right-wing .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 SolarCross wrote:
A figure of speech.

You should stop assuming other people's opinion, if guessing isn't the right word. If you want to know why he said they were biased, maybe ask him. I don't know those and I can't comment on them, but very right-wing Jewish sources will obviously have a bias against the left because, well, they are right-wing .

Left wing person describes jewish sources as "right wing" and this apparently in no way corroborates the perception that leftists are drifting into anti-semitism.

Let me help you with this, SolarCross. Left-wing person whose grand-mother had leave her home country and flee all Europe, depriving her of the education she would have needed to become a doctor, and had many relative die in extermination camp, because she was a German Jew, says that some Jewish sources are right-wing, and this in every way corroborate the idea that Jews aren't one hive mind where everyone things the same and have the same opinion, and that the Left/Right divide exists also among Jew. If you have any problem with that, if you try to push your narrative that I am antisemitic because I believe that some Jewish media is right-wing, I'll ask the mods to handle it out. Is that clear sir?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Let me help you with this, SolarCross. Left-wing person whose grand-mother had leave her home country and flee all Europe, depriving her of the education she would have needed to become a doctor, and had many relative die in extermination camp, because she was a German Jew, says that some Jewish sources are right-wing, and this in every way corroborate the idea that Jews aren't one hive mind where everyone things the same and have the same opinion, and that the Left/Right divide exists also among Jew. If you have any problem with that, if you try to push your narrative that I am antisemitic because I believe that some Jewish media is right-wing, I'll ask the mods to handle it out. Is that clear sir?

So what then exactly makes those sources right wing, apart from your say-so? Is it their basic bias/support towards the zionist project? I know of course that there are left-wing jews, for example Noam Chomsky, Norman Finklestien.. they wouldn't be zionists though. Would you describe zionism as right wing? Just asking.

This thread is all done now.