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Here are my pros and cons for each delivery system.

Archon
Pros:
No scatter
Guaranteed to be in soul burst range
Can take more than 5 wraiths
Can bring other IC units (shadowseer/farseer)

Cons:
40 pts more expensive
Less mobility
Does nothing in shooting/combat unless upgraded
Not all d-scythe wraiths can fire the turn they deep strike
Takes up HQ slot

raider
Pros:
40pts cheaper
Fast attack lost less important
Adds mobility/cover
Gives soul burst if destroyed
All d-scythes can be used (if in range)
Can fire 3 s5 ap2 shots.

Cons:
Scatters (potential mishap/out of range)
ICs can not join unit
Easy to destroy

 lambsandlions wrote:

Spoiler:

Here are my pros and cons for each delivery system.

Archon
Pros:
No scatter
Guaranteed to be in soul burst range
Can take more than 5 wraiths
Can bring other IC units (shadowseer/farseer)

Cons:
40 pts more expensive
Less mobility
Does nothing in shooting/combat unless upgraded
Not all d-scythe wraiths can fire the turn they deep strike
Takes up HQ slot

raider
Pros:
40pts cheaper
Fast attack lost less important
Adds mobility/cover
Gives soul burst if destroyed
All d-scythes can be used (if in range)
Can fire 3 s5 ap2 shots.

Cons:
Scatters (potential mishap/out of range)
ICs can not join unit
Easy to destroy

The only thing I would amend for this is that Night Shields are almost mandatory for Raiders, making the points difference between Raider and WWP Archons only 25pts.
Otherwise, I completely agree.

-

 Galef wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:

Spoiler:

Here are my pros and cons for each delivery system.

Archon
Pros:
No scatter
Guaranteed to be in soul burst range
Can take more than 5 wraiths
Can bring other IC units (shadowseer/farseer)

Cons:
40 pts more expensive
Less mobility
Does nothing in shooting/combat unless upgraded
Not all d-scythe wraiths can fire the turn they deep strike
Takes up HQ slot

raider
Pros:
40pts cheaper
Fast attack lost less important
Adds mobility/cover
Gives soul burst if destroyed
All d-scythes can be used (if in range)
Can fire 3 s5 ap2 shots.

Cons:
Scatters (potential mishap/out of range)
ICs can not join unit
Easy to destroy

The only thing I would amend for this is that Night Shields are almost mandatory for Raiders, making the points difference between Raider and WWP Archons only 25pts.
Otherwise, I completely agree.

-

I disagree. While night shields are good for raiders you want to keep around d this raider is only used for deep strike. After you deep strike you want to get out of it so you can soul burst and shoot again. If they shoot at it while you are out of it you want it to wreck so you can soul burst on their turn. Also unlike with regular dark eldar where you worry about the raider blowing up the high toughness and low save of wraights means raiders are not death boxes.

What about loading them in a wave serpent and giving them a psyker for some backup? Shadowseer does well and uses Elites slot so HQ is still free. Plus I think a wave serpent is more survivable and can shoot better. It also holds 12 instead of 10. Only trade off is no shooting while embarked. So no drive-by fun. but that may be a good trade for a unit that lasts longer.

Caedes wrote:
What about loading them in a wave serpent and giving them a psyker for some backup? Shadowseer does well and uses Elites slot so HQ is still free. Plus I think a wave serpent is more survivable and can shoot better. It also holds 12 instead of 10. Only trade off is no shooting while embarked. So no drive-by fun. but that may be a good trade for a unit that lasts longer.

You can kind of drive by. Hop out, kill something, soulburst, hop back in. Only downside is the shadowseer can only cast witchfires from inside the transport, and that's not really points-efficient.

Here's a good question though. What happens if an invisible unit embarks on a transport? This can happen with soulbursts.....I assume the transport is still hit normally lol but it's funny to think about.

But can you start your WG inside a raider? There was some stuff about having different factions iirc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, another pro of an archont is that when he dies, your dudes get a completely non-cheezy free round of shooting or charging.

They share the same faction and they are not allies when using the reborn detachment as they are from the same detachment.

As far as my understanding goes, wraithguard can start inside a raider, as long as it was purchased as a Fast Attack choice in the reborn detachment.

Fragile wrote:
The problem with cannons is cover saves. There are alot of things now that can get 2+, 3+ covers saves easily enough. The scythes remove the cover aspect at the cost of getting close. A raider solves the IK shield issue but can have problems with scatter unless you add a WWP, which jumps the price

not hating and i would play the list, but who are you planning on playing your double reborn warhost with 2 WK in it? ITC does not allow double wraithknight, ETC (european team championships) dont allow double GMC with the same weapons, and this list would be brutal overkill in a fun style game which is basically all your left with.

ITC is only 1 format of many.

If you are picking your powers on your farseer - divination provides ignore cover. Even rolling for it isn't terrible - you are still getting twin linked from the primaris and if you get ignore cover - just kiss anything in the game goodbye.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Firedragons in venoms are interesting too. Can easily pop 2 tanks and with bs 5 don't need IC support.

I think the only down side to the raider (aside from it's survivabilty )is that it has a carry cap of 10. So wraithgaurd don't get to have character support. The wave serpent does have that. and personally if I want something to escort my character wraith units are a nice choice. High toughness, decent armor .. they make great character bunkers.

Well according to the FAQ, this issue is done. WWP Archon, no Transport.
Even with the Ynnari faction, Eldar and DE units still consider each other BBs. So the Archon cannot start in a Serpent and the WG cannot start in a Raider.
SO discussing the merits of either transport is worthless at this point.