Switch Theme:

off-duty LAPD cop detains threatening teen and discharges firearm in self defense!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Well, the media's taking a rather one sided stance regarding this. "Cops are bad. Rarr!"



Nice video!

I'd think the cop deserves some discipline, if nothing else for embarrassing the department. However, it's kind of crazy that kids were attacking him like is shown in the video (particularly the one who does a "hockey check" and knocks him over the hedge) if he'd identified himself as a police officer.

Probably should have just called it in and dealt with it with some police who were uniformed / had badges with them... and he really didn't need to be dragging that kid around. Overall, a lot of poor judgement, but those kids deserve some penalty for sure, too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/25 18:19:22


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 jmurph wrote:
So the cop was mad about kids on his lawn and confronts the kid. Kid spouts off, cop hears threat and grabs him, then drags him further onto the property, at no time identifying himself, producing badge, etc. Kids respond by circling and on charges the cop who proceeds to pull the 1st kid over the hedge and draw a weapon. He continues to pull the kids and (inadvertently?) discharges his weapon.

Whoo boy. If this guy wasn't a cop, he would be in some deep crap.

As it is, I can't imagine that he followed any agency protocols on detainment or use of force. The key thing about LEO authority is that it is not assaulting an officer/resisting/etc. if you have no reason to know it's an officer. And to escalate a petty trespass to a potentially lethal situation? Ridiculous. Just turn the hose on 'em.

What if another homeowner saw him dragging a kid and pulled a gun? Or saw the gun and opened fire? There are so many ways this could have gone down very badly due to the officer's actions.


The man did seem to have identified himself as a cop since the kid was saying that his dad was a cop too.
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






When he dragged the kid back to his house he was unnecessarily escalating things. Any other way would have been a better way to handle it. He strikes me as another donkey-cave US cop who couldn't take somebody 'not respecting his authorita'.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Having watched the video, my impression is that the cop was lucky none of the young teenagers had a gun and decided to use their stand their ground and public defence rights to shoot him to prevent him from shooting someone.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

So anytime I tell someone that I'm a cop, they have to let me arrest them just because I said so?
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






Apparently so.

It's irking me that the fether will get off scot free. If you can straight up murder people in the US because you own a badge then he's well in the clear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 20:01:25


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 d-usa wrote:
So anytime I tell someone that I'm a cop, they have to let me arrest them just because I said so?


No but they have to let you assault and battery them and do nothing while you drag them into your residence. They'll quietly sit in your basement dungeon while you call their lawyer

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

You guys watched the whole video, right? I think the cop handled it terribly, but the final sequence is:

1. One kid pushes the police officer, while he's continuing to (foolishly) pull along the kid he's trying to detain
2. A second kid "hockey checks" the police officer over a hedge
3. A third kid jumps the hedge and reaches into his back pocket while approaching the police officer

Now, I think the officer handled it terribly, as I said above. After the 3 things above happened, just let go of the first kid (the police can always track him down later if it really was necessary, which it didn't seem to be) and reach for your gun with your primary hand.

Instead, he reaches with his off hand, then tries to pull the kid over the hedge he was knocked over WITH the gun hand, and it goes off. It's kind of a miracle no one got hit!

So, I think the police officer deserves discipline, particularly for the accidental discharge (assuming that's what it was - if it was on purpose, it's a whole different story). But those kids all also deserve to be charged, as it's unreal the way they're attacking him if he really had identified himself as a police officer. If they doubted that, they should have just called the police themselves... but there's no justification for the way they were attacking him, either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 20:22:46


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

So I can grab children and drag them along, as long as I tell them I am a police officer first?
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 d-usa wrote:
So I can grab children and drag them along, as long as I tell them I am a police officer first?


Depends, do you have a van to drag them to?
   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






When he put hands on the kid and started dragging him back to the house he crossed the line. Anyone else would have been charged with assault. And as cop he should know better than to overact over a bunch of kids being stupid. Again, this is probably because he couldn't handle his authority being challenged. Especially not by Latinos.

Yeah, I'm going there.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

Here is the thing that is fething insane:

One threads over we have people argue that it's okay for an old man to shoot another man to death because he threw popcorn at him, threw a phone, and leaned towards him.

Here we have people argue that children should let adults grab them and drag them over the hedge without defending themselves.

Of course in both cases it was idiots with the guns starting the confrontation. And in both cases they were right, because idiots with guns can't get anything wrong.

Now excuse me, I'm a cop and I have a gun. I'm gonna go start some stuff, grab some children after yelling at them that I'm a cop, and then fail at basic firearm safety when they defend themselves.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Future War Cultist wrote:
When he put hands on the kid and started dragging him back to the house he crossed the line. Anyone else would have been charged with assault. And as cop he should know better than to overact over a bunch of kids being stupid. Again, this is probably because he couldn't handle his authority being challenged. Especially not by Latinos.

Yeah, I'm going there.


You dirty boy...

   
Made in ca
Fighter Ace






 CptJake wrote:
 slip wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
You wrote:
 slip wrote:
The officer shot him minutes later.


That is factually untrue, and easily proven, given that nobody actually got shot.

Changing to say "at him" is moving the goalposts by a significant amount, and unlikely given that the officer was not seen pointing the firearm at anybody at the time it discharged.

Stop making gak up.


it's a typo from typing too fast and you're clinging desperately to that point to avoid addressing how much you asserted about the incident without actually viewing the evidence yourself.


Wrong, yet again. He didn't shoot AT anyone. His gun discharged. Negligently it would seem, but he sure as hell was not aiming it/pointing it AT anyone.


Did you watch the video? He was pointing it at people the entire time. Are you claiming this officer fired a warning shot, which is definitely illegal for both a civilian and an officer?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 d-usa wrote:
Here is the thing that is fething insane:

One threads over we have people argue that it's okay for an old man to shoot another man to death because he threw popcorn at him, threw a phone, and leaned towards him.

Here we have people argue that children should let adults grab them and drag them over the hedge without defending themselves.

Of course in both cases it was idiots with the guns starting the confrontation. And in both cases they were right, because idiots with guns can't get anything wrong.

Now excuse me, I'm a cop and I have a gun. I'm gonna go start some stuff, grab some children after yelling at them that I'm a cop, and then fail at basic firearm safety when they defend themselves.


It'll be interesting to see if people were often going through the man's property and this was the straw that broke the camel's back.
That aside, it's a situation where both sides are saying different things which led to the restraining of the boy. The boy says he was going to sue him, the cop says he threatened to shoot him.
In any event, the cop identified himself as such and was going to hold the boy until other officers arrived. He was physically attacked and knocked over a bush, surrounded and in what could have been a situation where he got murdered.
He could have easily killed a couple of kids and possibly been justified, but there was only one shot fired that might have been accidental.

   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

I cannot comprehend in what world a bunch of kids taking a short cut through your yard justifies killing them. There is no scenario where this should have escalated to physical attacks (for either party) or guns being drawn (for either party) or shots being fired (for either party).

Defensiveness over guns has reached an absurd level. This entire situation is slowed, but the difference is that one party is made up of stupid kids and as inexcusable as their behavior was they are stupid kids. The other party was grown ass fething man who apparently is so thin skinned he can't tolerate people crossing into his yard without resorting to harsh language, physical altercations, and gunfire. Even if one of kids did say "I'll shoot you" unless a gun was found on his person a verbal threat does not justify physical action or gun pulling. Every single step of this altercation was escalated by a single party, the party who should have best known how not to do that. Neither of the parties seem to disagree about the steps that were taken or who took them, only the provocations issued which are factually irrelevant given what is known.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 LordofHats wrote:
I cannot comprehend in what world a bunch of kids taking a short cut through your yard justifies killing them. There is no scenario where this should have escalated to physical attacks (for either party) or guns being drawn (for either party) or shots being fired (for either party).

Defensiveness over guns has reached an absurd level. This entire situation is slowed, but the difference is that one party is made up of stupid kids and as inexcusable as their behavior was they are stupid kids. The other party was grown ass fething man who apparently is so thin skinned he can't tolerate people crossing into his yard without resorting to harsh language, physical altercations, and gunfire. Even if one of kids did say "I'll shoot you" unless a gun was found on his person a verbal threat does not justify physical action or gun pulling. Every single step of this altercation was escalated by a single party, the party who should have best known how not to do that. Neither of the parties seem to disagree about the steps that were taken or who took them, only the provocations issued which are factually irrelevant given what is known.


In all fairness, he was knocked over and surrounded while trying to restrain someone until backup arrived he says threatened to shoot him. It was at that point he drew his gun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 22:34:31


 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!

Relapse wrote:

In all fairness, he was knocked over and surrounded while trying to restrain someone until backup arrived he says threatened to shoot him.


In all fairness, if he hadn't picked a fight with a bunch of 13 year old kids over someone crossing into his lawn, he wouldn't have gotten his butt kicked and ended up fearing for his life.

Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




squidhills wrote:
Relapse wrote:

In all fairness, he was knocked over and surrounded while trying to restrain someone until backup arrived he says threatened to shoot him.


In all fairness, if he hadn't picked a fight with a bunch of 13 year old kids over someone crossing into his lawn, he wouldn't have gotten his butt kicked and ended up fearing for his life.


It was his right to tell the kids to stay off his property.
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!

Relapse wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Relapse wrote:

In all fairness, he was knocked over and surrounded while trying to restrain someone until backup arrived he says threatened to shoot him.


In all fairness, if he hadn't picked a fight with a bunch of 13 year old kids over someone crossing into his lawn, he wouldn't have gotten his butt kicked and ended up fearing for his life.


It was his right to tell the kids to stay off his property.


Yes it was. It was his right to tell kids to stay off his property. It was not his right to take in any farther than that, but he did anyway. Everything that happened in this situation is his fault, because all he did was escalate the problem into something worse. If he hadn't done A, the kids would not have responded with B. If he hadn't done C, the kids wouldn't have reacted with D. And so on and so on, till the gun (which should never have left it's holster in this case) went off.

Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Relapse wrote:


In all fairness, he was knocked over and surrounded while trying to restrain someone until backup arrived he says threatened to shoot him. It was at that point he drew his gun.


I must have forgotten that party of school where I was told to do nothing and stand there while a total stranger grabbed an kid and dragged them away.

He should have had the kid in the first place. If he wasn't getting sued before, those kid's parents would be fools not to sue now. It's a slam dunk win. As stupid and rude as the kids were being the off duty officer turned this into a complete quagmire pretty much entirely on his own.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/25 22:47:14


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Given the current status of cop shootings, it was entirely his right to restrain someone he says threatened to shoot him.
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Relapse wrote:
Given the current status of cop shootings, it was entirely his right to restrain someone he says threatened to shoot him.


No it wasn't. It was his right to be on the defensive. Call 911. Lock your doors. Issue a complaint to the school board or parents association. Not run over and crab a kid who didn't have a weapon and drag him away.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

If I say "I'm a cop" and grab your child, you're just gonna be cool with it?

The whole "he identified himself as a cop" is the stupidest justification this board has given for anything in quite a while. Anybody can say anything, so 13 year olds should just let grown men manhandle them because they said "I'm a cop"?
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 d-usa wrote:
If I say "I'm a cop" and grab your child, you're just gonna be cool with it?

The whole "he identified himself as a cop" is the stupidest justification this board has given for anything in quite a while. Anybody can say anything, so 13 year olds should just let grown men manhandle them because they said "I'm a cop"?


It's the perfect storm of shallow gun right's activist wet dreams; shoots are always justified vs protect my kids.

I put $5 on shoots are always justified in the third round!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 22:53:58


   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Relapse wrote:
Given the current status of cop shootings, it was entirely his right to restrain someone he says threatened to shoot him.


Explain, how is it his right to restrain them? What is this right you speak of?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 d-usa wrote:
If I say "I'm a cop" and grab your child, you're just gonna be cool with it?

The whole "he identified himself as a cop" is the stupidest justification this board has given for anything in quite a while. Anybody can say anything, so 13 year olds should just let grown men manhandle them because they said "I'm a cop"?


If that 13 year old is threatening to shoot him, that can be expected.
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

Relapse wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
If I say "I'm a cop" and grab your child, you're just gonna be cool with it?

The whole "he identified himself as a cop" is the stupidest justification this board has given for anything in quite a while. Anybody can say anything, so 13 year olds should just let grown men manhandle them because they said "I'm a cop"?


If that 13 year old is threatening to shoot him, that can be expected.


Except the thirteen year old did not threaten to shoot him by anybodies account except for the person who escalated to violence first.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Secret Squirrel






Leerstetten, Germany

Relapse wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
If I say "I'm a cop" and grab your child, you're just gonna be cool with it?

The whole "he identified himself as a cop" is the stupidest justification this board has given for anything in quite a while. Anybody can say anything, so 13 year olds should just let grown men manhandle them because they said "I'm a cop"?


If that 13 year old is threatening to shoot him, that can be expected.


Should I be able to walk up to a 13 year old child, say "I'm a cop", grab him, drag him, and expect compliance from everyone around?

Should children that are being grabbed by an adult be able to defend themselves?

   
Made in gb
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols






 d-usa wrote:
Here is the thing that is fething insane:

One threads over we have people argue that it's okay for an old man to shoot another man to death because he threw popcorn at him, threw a phone, and leaned towards him.

Here we have people argue that children should let adults grab them and drag them over the hedge without defending themselves.

Of course in both cases it was idiots with the guns starting the confrontation. And in both cases they were right, because idiots with guns can't get anything wrong.

Now excuse me, I'm a cop and I have a gun. I'm gonna go start some stuff, grab some children after yelling at them that I'm a cop, and then fail at basic firearm safety when they defend themselves.


That's a very good point actually. If that was in Florida, would the kids (or any one else for that matter) have had the right to stand their ground and kill that guy because he was threatening them? That's how it works right? Somebody acts lairy towards you you can kill them right?

The cop can claim that he heard I'll shoot you. I think he heard what he wanted to hear.

Also, protesters attacked his house and ended up smashing a window. Probably scuffed up his lawn too. I'm trying not to smile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/25 23:33:22


 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: