Warhammer 40,000 new edition announced & new site ; UPDATE 28/04 Psychic Phase

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**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

In 12 pages? I doubt it.

And yeah, I figured they'd be on the scroll, but that's the problem. The more and more bespoke rules everyone gets, the more of a mess it becomes and we just get 7th in a different format. It we then add to that the possibility that the same weapons will have different rules between armies or, worse, between unit types in the same army, and they retain the same name... good God keeping track of that will be difficult.

"I'm using my flamer!" should never be met "What type of flamer?". There should be exactly one type of flamer, that does one thing and one thing only and is consistent. You can then have a hand flamer, a heavy flamer, a super-duper flamer and so on, but two units with Flamers should have the same rules for said flamers.

It's not such a big deal if the scrolls are freely available. Right now you have to buy a book or pirate it to learn another army's capabilities. AoS excels tremendously at this -- I have all the scrolls for all armies loaded on my phone. When I change opponents I add all their units to my battle and I scroll through the ones I don't see too often.

**Daedalus81**

dosiere wrote:
I assumed, seeing that there are weapon profiles, that the weapons rules would stay consistent across the game. Obviously they could add special rules that alter it for each unit, but in that case why create standard weapon profiles in the first place? that would actually be more complicated than just having a different weapon profile for every unit.

If you have a unit and all it's rules in one page then you don't need to go flipping into a big book to remember what you may have forgotten.

Here is an annoying example. I can find the things I need to know about the Forgefiend scattered across 3 pages. Unfortunately if I forgot what phase IWND occurs in, if Daemon has any stipulations, or how to apply Fleet I have to go to another 1-2 pages in a separate book.

Or I could just have everything I need for it on one page.

**Daedalus81**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Aircraft are immune to instant hits, even in this edition.
I would actually like to see flak weapons deal multiple damage to aircraft if it hits.

How do you know this?

**Daedalus81**

Skerr wrote:

I did read on the community page that Foley tweeted there are 3 chances for a lucky explosion as a vehicle degrades. I may not be 100 % accurate.

Huh. That's interesting. Not sure how they would work that into an 8W dreadnought.

**Daedalus81**

So define community page? I've been through all his tweets since FAQ and I can't find it.

**Daedalus81**

Nah Man Pichu wrote:
CoreCommander wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/27/new-warhammer-40000-movement/
Looks like AoS fall back is in... and no penalties other than those in AoS (no shooting and charging next turn) are mentioned. Not exactly the thing I was looking for though more details may surface...

Except for the S vs T roll and no random turn rolling the game is practically AoS for me judging by what have been released so far.

Wondering how this will affect units like my Ravenwing with Hit and Run... Not so special when everyone can do it...

Maybe they'll be able to still shoot and whatnot, or maybe do it in the assault phase like they do now.

We'll see

Instead of not being able to do anything after a fallback Ravenwing might be able to shoot. We'll just have to wait and see. I really enjoy the whole concept.

Also, Psychic Phase tomorrow!

**Daedalus81**

Another factor is that assault armies won't be moving just 6" anymore. We also have no idea how charge ranges work.

**Daedalus81**

And of course the thing we're glossing over is bespoke movement for flyers, which is so so much better.

**Daedalus81**

flakpanzer wrote:
Other than the "not running through walls" stuff, they did not touch on difficult or dangerous terrain, did they?

Are movement rates not slowed by terrain like AoS?

Well, it may be like AoS where you'll measure the up and the down of a wall instead of making a difficult terrain check. Slows you down, but removes the random.

**Daedalus81**

cuda1179 wrote:
I just thought of something amusing. Someone earlier stated that this was GW's most playtested game to date, with over 1500 games played. That being said, there are what, 21 factions in the game? That means there would be 231 different combinations of army match-ups, not counting allies. That means every combo got played an average of 6 times. 6 times for the most playtested game ever?

It isn't necessary for every army to play every other army to a high degree. Each faction got over 70 games...that's 14 tournaments. If the numbers are to be believed.

**Daedalus81**

Neronoxx wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
Megaknob wrote:
They have stated "close combat will be viable again" stop crying let the orks have there Day.

Again, do you really think that they would directly state that CC will not be viable ?

Do you think new GW would blatantly lie?

GW Headquarters : Huehuehue! We have them now! We made everything great EXCEPT cc! This plan will work perfectly!

It's the perfect bait and switch. Only GW could be so evil and underhanded.

**Daedalus81**

Crimson wrote:

We have been over this. Fixed-wound does not work remotely the same as S/T system. With fixed-wound it doesn't matter what you'r target is. It doesn't matter if you're attacking twelve goblins or a monster with twelve wounds. It is all the same. Same with multi-wound spilling. Twelve goblins or twelve-wound monster, doesn't matter, the weapon works just the same.

Furthermore, you can stop defending AOS. Could you just accept that these are mechanics some people do not like, and they're happy that they're not implemented in 40K?

It can, but you would just need a lot of wounds. The guns in 40K are more numerous and lethal so such a large differentiation isn't needed in AoS.

**Daedalus81**

streetsamurai wrote:

Why not , companies lie all the time if it can give them more sales, even more so if its something as subjective that can never be proven false. And even if they are not lying, just because they want cc to be efficient doesnt means they will succeed in making it efficient and viable. As i said before, ill play a game or two before popping the champagne

1) Being untruthful to get extra sales
2) Being ignorant and getting extra sales
3) Being confident and getting extra sales

There's a vast difference between these and i'm pretty sure the FLG and other tournament guys know how close combat works.

If you can't objectively prove it to be bad then it is not bad not matter how much you will want to cling to a crummy opinion.

**Daedalus81**

streetsamurai wrote:

I nevet said they were lying, youre the one putting word in my mouth. Only said that thinking that cc will become viable just because the game developpers said so, is naive at best.

Honestly, it is actually astonishing that some of you have an issues with what i just wrote.

You didn't have to directly say they were lying. The intent of your words are clear enough.

Again, do you think they would directly state that CC will not be viable?

This implies that they would know that it is not and willfully mislead us.

Putting out an email that says 'Buy the New 40K - it's the best ever!' is a world away from having a live FAQ, showing us the rules before we buy it, promising to keep the system up to date, proving that they are engaged in doing so (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/07/the-generals-handbook-ii-wip-points-sneak-peek/), and sourcing external play testing.

There's being cautious and there's being pessimistic for the sake of being a pessimist.

**Daedalus81**

rollawaythestone wrote:
I am torn about the Fleeing mechanic. On the one hand, I don't like a unit I charged being able to escape. Locking something down into combat is an important tactic for a close combat army. However, they are pinned after they flee - but it does allow them to use some nice tactical opportunities to punish the assaulting units with nearby units with shooting. It gives shooting heavy armies some opportunity for interaction in the combat phase. Having to choose between staying locked in and swinging, or running away will add an interesting dynamic. So, with other aspects of the game changing, like potentially increased movement, possibly Run + Charge, and possibly no more overwatch, I am willing to wait and see how it plays out. It definitely will add some back and forth in the assault phase for all armies to do interesting tactical stuff.

There's a lot that plays into whether or not this will be bad.

Are sweeping advances in?
Has the charge phase changed at all?
Has the math for melee changed?
How do power weapons work now?

**Daedalus81**

Like AoS you might also be able to quite easily charge multiple units at once, which makes the angle of attack somewhat vital.

**Daedalus81**

Ysclyth wrote:
Do the new move mechanics mean turbo boost is out? I am personally wondering what an exalted sorcerer or herald could do with a disc of tzeentch. My t sons are very curious about psychic phase.

If they have it then it will likely be a rule specific to the unit. So it's all up in the air, but lots about Rubrics will become pretty awesome now.

**Daedalus81**

streetsamurai wrote:
I've asked the question before but got no answer. Is it true that the game designer stated that vehicule could still randomly explode?

Thanks

There is yet to be any evidence of that. We looked through his tweets and came up empty.

**Daedalus81**

streetsamurai wrote:
Daedalus81 wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
I've asked the question before but got no answer. Is it true that the game designer stated that vehicule could still randomly explode?

Thanks

There is yet to be any evidence of that. We looked through his tweets and came up empty.

thanks.

I know i'm probably in the minority, but I think it would be a cool rule. Would make their degradation less linear

It really depends how random it is. 9+ on 2D6? I can probably live with that. Just a 6+? Well, anti-tank weapons will need to be more expensive or else it could be frustrating.

**Daedalus81**

nintura wrote:
Can't wait to see 1k Sons. I wonder if their bolters will ignore SM armor still? Or just make it harder. And if they'll still be super expensive to the point where you can't really play a full army. And if there are no invuln saves (just assuming here), then what does their mark do now?

(speculation)

Inferno Bolts will be an additional -1 rend to the weapon using them. So Heavy Bolters will presumably be -2.
If Rapid Fire is now double your shots if you don't move and Rubrics ignore that then we'll be double tapping at 24" with a -1...good stuff.
If ward saves are gone then extra wounds are possible, but I really doubt they would remove that mechanic entirely.
Cultists will make great bubble wrap to retreat and let us hammer chargers, but who knows what formations we might wind up with.

Psychic Phase is today, so cross your fingers!

**Daedalus81**

Skerr wrote:

For what it is worth 40k community commented that 1k sons are hard to kill in new edition. A poster asked since termies get 2 wounds will rubric power armor get 2 wounds and scarab termies get 3. That was their answer, preceeded by a "trust us".

I hope they still get a ward, because then those terminators are prime targets for anti-tank weapons...

**Daedalus81**

Earth127 wrote:
That's probably why SM are still only one wound. Ease of traking and speed of gameplay.

You likely won't be spreading wounds anymore.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brian888 wrote:
What time do the updates usually go up?

About an hour from now.

**Daedalus81**

nintura wrote:

If a bolter is -0 to save, then a heavy bolter would be -1. I imagine Inferno Bolts would be -2 given they were AP 3 and Heavy Bolters were AP 4.

You could be right. Seems strong on the surface.

They have a save of a 5+ against lascannons. Exactly what they had before.

I suppose. It feels scary though.

**Daedalus81**

SeanDrake wrote:

If there is no overwatch then given the changes all ready mentioned(assualt out of any vehicle, charger hits 1st, abysmal fall back rule, AoS crappy morale system,less chance to bypass/reduce saves) shooting armies need.not bother turning up for 8th.

Success! We have covered the spectrum from shooting is totally broken to CC is totally broken. Good job Dakka!

**Daedalus81**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Updated Warzones"

Ah, so we are getting 40K versions of AoS's Realms.

Goody.

So? It's something for people to use in Narrative games.

**Daedalus81**

Alpharius wrote:
Maybe the 8E version of "Eternal Warrior" will allow the model to make saves vs. "Mortal Wounds"?

Sounds plausible to me. I wonder if there will be a rule of 1 as well...a ton of 1K Sons sorcerers spamming Smite would be quite deadly to tanks or anything else for that matter.

**Daedalus81**

Requizen wrote:
Silentz wrote:
Important difference to AOS

There is still a psychic phase, which still (presumably) comes after the movement phase... unlike AOS where hero phase comes before movement.

This is reflected in the default "Smite" power which is not targetable - it hits THE NEAREST unit within X... so you must have to use your move to target it rather than just saying "that one"

oooh, I missed that one.

Though it would be interesting if it came before Movement. You could "counter" Smite by positioning your units smartly.

Spells are still worded like this in AoS so there is no guarantee that the Psychic Phase comes after movement.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

whembly wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Updated Warzones"

Ah, so we are getting 40K versions of AoS's Realms.

Goody.

What are Realms???

Different worlds to fight on with various events and terrain rules.

**Daedalus81**

I guess we can also look forward to no more free summoning. People will need to carve points from their list to bring units onto the table. This also likely means deepstrike will no longer be random, but will come with a 9" bubble from enemy units (no more d-scythe drop and wipe).

**Daedalus81**

Crimson wrote:
Psychic phase changes themselves seem OK. I like that lesser psykers are no longer just batteries for the big guys.

Mortal Wounds though... urgh... This I don't like. They have all the same scalability problems as D weapons. I'd hope they'd be used extremely sparingly, but given that the standard psychic power accessible by everyone already dishes them out, the prospects won't look good...

I fully anticipate the rule of 1. Also the wording of this particular spell does make it hard to target exactly what you want.

**Daedalus81**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

As somebody once said, magic is indistinguishable from advanced science, so perhaps the Tau 'physic' powers is nothing more them using, er, advanced science

It would fit in with the Tau background.

There was a Babylon 5 episode with those techno mages? The name escapes me, and that theme cropped up in it.

So yeah, I'd buy the Tau having 'psychic' powers.

All well and good, but they would still have to interact with the warp in some way. Perhaps some new Tau research will unveil a solution.