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Taffy17 wrote:


Azrael gives invulns out, Shrike lets you re-roll charges, Pedro gives everyone an extra attack, Helbrecht gives everyone +1 Strength, Calgar gives you an extra 2cp, what does Dante get? -1 to opponents leadership which is exactly what sanguinary guard can do! Surely the most experienced living marine should do a bit more than that?

He's still probably the best fighter out of all of em, though, so well, you can't have everything. I'm not complaining.

Good point about him being the most experienced 'living' marine though. If you count years conscious, he's older than Roboute, isn't he?

 Walnuts wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:


Azrael gives invulns out, Shrike lets you re-roll charges, Pedro gives everyone an extra attack, Helbrecht gives everyone +1 Strength, Calgar gives you an extra 2cp, what does Dante get? -1 to opponents leadership which is exactly what sanguinary guard can do! Surely the most experienced living marine should do a bit more than that?

He's still probably the best fighter out of all of em, though, so well, you can't have everything. I'm not complaining.

Good point about him being the most experienced 'living' marine though. If you count years conscious, he's older than Roboute, isn't he?

Yeah Guillimans what? 300? depends how long after the horus heresy he was put into stasis. Dante's over 2000 isn't he?

No sources say how old he is exactly (as far as I know), but he's been chapter master for over 1,200 years, so assuming he's at LEAST 1,300 years old seems reasonable.

 Carnage43 wrote:

Bartali wrote:
I've can't understand the thinking behind the Infernus Pistol pricing.
They can be spammed I guess, more so than Meltaguns can be - i.e. put on any Sang Guard or Death Company model, which the pricing may reflect that ?

They can of course be used in CC, which again may reflect their pricing ? Their deadlier than a Powerfist, and they're 20pts.

However despite their power and potential to be spammed, they're very situational. The range is poor, so you can't fire them on a drop from a jump pack assault. You can only shoot pistols in protected assaults, which BA aren't very good at.

In short, increase their utility or drop their price

It's their ability to be used in CC that's the real price kicker. Being able to drop potentially 6 wounds on a vehicle/dread/monster when you should be "locked" in melee isn't bad really.

Now, it remains to be seen if it's actually going to happen all that often, and warrant the points hike for the pistol. I can't see pistols being fired in melee very often frankly. If you charge and "have the upper hand" your opponent will walk out of melee and you will get shot up, but you will get to fire the next shooting phase with the pistol or a melta-gun, so no difference anyways, assuming you survive. If you GET charged by something huge and scary, you will probably want to disengage if you survive at all, and you wouldn't get to shoot either...again, the same. The only difference is when both players want to "stick it out" and grind the melee over multiple turns....which I don't see happening super often.

Just noticed Harlies get to pay 9pts for their Fusion Pistols (identical to Infernus Pistols). Hey ho.

So looking at What I think might be one of the better BA builds. What do you think?

Detachments: 2x Vanguard Detachments


Gabriel Seth - Blood Reaver,Bolt pistol (Warlord)

Sanguinary Priest - 2 Chainswords

Librarian - Force sword,Bolt pistol,Jump Pack, Powers: Shield/Unleash

4x CompanyVeterans w/JPs-:
Sgt: Combi-melta,Chainsword
3 Space Marine Veterans Chainsword,Meltagun

4x CompanyVeterans w/JPs-:
Sgt: Combi-melta,Chainsword
3 Space Marine Veterans Chainsword,Meltagun

10x Vanguard Veteran Squad w/JPs:
1 Veteran Sergeant: Pair of lightning claw
9 Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword,Storm shield

10x Vanguard Veteran Squad:
1 Veteran Sergeant: Pair of lightning claw,Meltabomb
9 Space Marine Veteran: 2 Chainswords

10x Vanguard Veteran Squad:
1 Veteran Sergeant: Pair of lightning claw,Meltabomb
9 Space Marine Veteran: 2 Chainswords

5x Vanguard Veteran Squad w/JPs:
1 Veteran Sergeant: 2x Plasma Pistol
4 Space Marine Veteran: 2 Plasma Pistols

Stormraven Gunship:
Twin AC, Twin MM, 2x SSMLs,2x HCBs

Stormraven Gunship:
Twin AC, Twin MM, 2x SSMLs,2x HCBs

I haven't familiarized myself with the codex properly yet, so I have a question.

How do you fellas feel about Land Speeders now? I hear that their movement is now 16" (?), so their effective range is pretty notable.

 soomemafia wrote:
I haven't familiarized myself with the codex properly yet, so I have a question.

How do you fellas feel about Land Speeders now? I hear that their movement is now 16" (?), so their effective range is pretty notable.

I've really being wanting to bring 3x Landspeeders with double heavy flamer. that 20" move plus advance and flame stuff with 6d6 auto hits sounds amazing, but it also costs ~350pts

 Coyote81 wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
I haven't familiarized myself with the codex properly yet, so I have a question.

How do you fellas feel about Land Speeders now? I hear that their movement is now 16" (?), so their effective range is pretty notable.

I've really being wanting to bring 3x Landspeeders with double heavy flamer. that 20" move plus advance and flame stuff with 6d6 auto hits sounds amazing, but it also costs ~350pts

Can't advance and fire the heavy flamers on Land Speeders, they're Heavy. Same as with the Heavy Flamer sponsons on Baals - which is annoying when the Flamestorm Cannon is Assault.

Can do it on Razorbacks though - they're Twin Heavy Flamers, which are Assault.
3x Twin Flamer Razors are 53pts cheaper than taking 3 Speeders.
Flamer Razors have an effective range of 21-26" compared to 24" of a singular Land Speeder
For an army that want's to get in and punch stuff, Twin Heavy Flamer Razors are very good.

I made a quick 1500 point list. Opinions?


The Sanguinor
Priest w/ JP & PS
Sanguinary Guard 5 guys, PF & Axe
Sanguinary Guard 5 guys, PF & Axe
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Razorback Twin AC
Razorback Twin AC
Razorback Twin AC
Predator Twin LC & LC sponsons

I can't quite figure out what would be the best AT for us... Lascannons are good, but Predator seems too expensive. And deep striking doesn't get Meltaguns close enough for efficent damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. looking forward to seeing the new rules for Sicaran Battle Tanks!
They just might solve this problem for me.

I feel like the predator in practice will be better AT thank you think. Keep in mind that autocannon on it causes THREE wounds per hit. Not bad!

 Walnuts wrote:
I feel like the predator in practice will be better AT thank you think. Keep in mind that autocannon on it causes THREE wounds per hit. Not bad!

Yeah, the predator auto cannon is a bit better than standard autocannon. 2D3 hits and 3 damage, so its a decent upgrade, so much so that its only 1 point cheaper than the twin lascannon, so no longer is the AC/LC pred much cheaper than the tri-las pred.

So two very strong shots or four somewhat weaker shots, about the same points either way. I guess I'll need to get a few games under my belt before I decide whether it's worth the points or not, but either way, it seems like in 8th edition you're going to have to take vehicles down the way you take them down in 30k. Throw lots of long range dakka right at the front of them.

Also hopefully once dreadnought drop pods become a thing for us we can throw our magna-grapple dreads at vehicles

What are people's thoughts on the new primaris marines? Do they have a place in a BA list or are there better options for their roles?

Well MY thoughts, are Interceptors maybe. Course I think Tactical Squads are a waste in BA, especially since we don't need them anymore. Two Vanguards and a Outrider should get you everything you would want, for just as many CP as a Battalion without having to pay troop tax.

Characters, DC, Vet Assault, Assault, Dreads, Devs with Multi's or Heavy Flamers maybe, Stormravens, and then whatever vehicles you can afford...

 soomemafia wrote:
I made a quick 1500 point list. Opinions?


The Sanguinor
Priest w/ JP & PS
Sanguinary Guard 5 guys, PF & Axe
Sanguinary Guard 5 guys, PF & Axe
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Tactical Squad 5 guys, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol
Razorback Twin AC
Razorback Twin AC
Razorback Twin AC
Predator Twin LC & LC sponsons

I can't quite figure out what would be the best AT for us... Lascannons are good, but Predator seems too expensive. And deep striking doesn't get Meltaguns close enough for efficent damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. looking forward to seeing the new rules for Sicaran Battle Tanks!
They just might solve this problem for me.

Could do with some improvement to be honest. Plasma (Pistols) should go on the Sang Guard - they're cheaper than Angelus Boltguns and with Heirs of Azkaelleon they can fire overcharged shots and re-roll those 1s.
Secondly, how do you plan to get those Sang Guard up the table and into combat ? You could run them behind the Razors, but then the Twin AC doesn't want to have permanent -1 to hit from moving all the time. Ditto the Tacs that aren't really kitted out for getting up close.

Personal preference, I'd probably change the Razors over to Twin Flamer and give the Tacs Melta/Combi-Meta. Drive the Razors up the table and set up assaults for the Sang Guard (run them behind the Razors, or deep strike them in turn 2). Pop the Tacs out the Razors to go shoot tanks.

@Bartali

I don't quite agree on having Meltaguns on small Tac squads or HF on Razorbacks.
Until we get some short of chapter tactics, tacticals are not meant for close combat. But the insane amount of AC shots give you a good control of the midfield.

And besides, with 12 shots per tank, the - 1 to hit isn't a gamechanger.
Transports are literally meant for board control so I prefer to give them longer range even if it means less impact (which it definitely does not).

But you are right about Plasma on SG, didn't realize they were cheaper. Wonder what happened there...

Jdredsox wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the new primaris marines? Do they have a place in a BA list or are there better options for their roles?

I'm really looking forward to trying the bolter guys as a footslogging mid-field objective capping unit. The plasma dudes look great if you wanted to do, like, a re-roll gunline with tycho or something. The jump pack guys seem like they have potential, but maaaaaan, I like my jump pack fighters packing swords and covered in ropes and studs and chains and stuff. The primaris dudes just look too clean and uh, practical

I'm going to give them a try, we'll see how it works...

If you go jump pack army, I think the intercesors are going to be pretty good. 18 shots at str 5, with a -1 AP. Drop Dante down near them and they get re-rolls to hit on those 18 shots and then Dante can go eat another squad. plus, they have fly keyword so even if they get charged, they are T5 with 2 wounds, so they can jump back out of CC and fire again.

The rest of the guys so far i'm not as enthralled with. the plasma guys seem like more expensive stern guard, and Sternguard seem like they might be more effective just coming down in a DP and combi shooting whatever they need dead.

Ooooh good call with the Dante / intercesor combo. I was trying to think of a good way to combo his re-roll ability with shooty units and I was like, uhhh attack bikes maybe?


Yeah, the whole fall back shoot thing is very nice. Like, it's basically a tau move so it's gonna feel unusual doing it, but I can see the potential.

But maaan, they're 75 points each. That's sooooo glass cannon-ey. Attack bikes cost as much and put out just a lil less dakka, but are way more durable, and land speeders are just over 100 pts, but again, way more durable and put out more long range dakka.

31 pts for a Sternguard w/ combi plasma vs 38 for the hellblaster guy. Hellblaster guy has better range, better ap, and an extra wound. Sternguard has a bolter. Considering how expensive drop pods are, I might be more into the hellblasters here. WE'LL SEE ONCE I START GAMING, I GUESS.

 Walnuts wrote:
Ooooh good call with the Dante / intercesor combo. I was trying to think of a good way to combo his re-roll ability with shooty units and I was like, uhhh attack bikes maybe?


Yeah, the whole fall back shoot thing is very nice. Like, it's basically a tau move so it's gonna feel unusual doing it, but I can see the potential.

But maaan, they're 75 points each. That's sooooo glass cannon-ey. Attack bikes cost as much and put out just a lil less dakka, but are way more durable, and land speeders are just over 100 pts, but again, way more durable and put out more long range dakka.

31 pts for a Sternguard w/ combi plasma vs 38 for the hellblaster guy. Hellblaster guy has better range, better ap, and an extra wound. Sternguard has a bolter. Considering how expensive drop pods are, I might be more into the hellblasters here. WE'LL SEE ONCE I START GAMING, I GUESS.

Did you know it's 32pts for a Company Veteran with Jumppack Chainsword and Plasmagun?

bobafett012 wrote:
If you go jump pack army, I think the intercesors are going to be pretty good. 18 shots at str 5, with a -1 AP. Drop Dante down near them and they get re-rolls to hit on those 18 shots and then Dante can go eat another squad. plus, they have fly keyword so even if they get charged, they are T5 with 2 wounds, so they can jump back out of CC and fire again.

The rest of the guys so far i'm not as enthralled with. the plasma guys seem like more expensive stern guard, and Sternguard seem like they might be more effective just coming down in a DP and combi shooting whatever they need dead.

Inceptor = Jetpack + double heavy bolter pistols. They are hilariously overpriced ATM, and unusable. 75 points is a joke, with plasma vets being 32, and other options being much tougher.

Intercessor = Tactical Squad+. Not sure why you want bolter boys.....ever. I'm not sure they are really much better than normal tacticals point for point either.

Watch your naming.

Whoo yeah, good point. Also it'll be really amusing to FINALLY actually have a reason to use a jump pack plasma gun guy like 20 years after buying the 3rd edition blood angels honor guard box that had a plasma gun / jump pack model on the cover that you'd have to be INSANE to actually use.
(for you kids out there, in 3rd ed you could charge after shooting a rapid fire weapon, but if you moved or deep struck you could only fire them once up to 12", so it was just an expensive plasma pistol that gave you -1 attack :/ )

 Carnage43 wrote:

bobafett012 wrote:
If you go jump pack army, I think the intercesors are going to be pretty good. 18 shots at str 5, with a -1 AP. Drop Dante down near them and they get re-rolls to hit on those 18 shots and then Dante can go eat another squad. plus, they have fly keyword so even if they get charged, they are T5 with 2 wounds, so they can jump back out of CC and fire again.

The rest of the guys so far i'm not as enthralled with. the plasma guys seem like more expensive stern guard, and Sternguard seem like they might be more effective just coming down in a DP and combi shooting whatever they need dead.

Inceptor = Jetpack + double heavy bolter pistols. They are hilariously overpriced ATM, and unusable. 75 points is a joke, with plasma vets being 32, and other options being much tougher.

Intercessor = Tactical Squad+. Not sure why you want bolter boys.....ever. I'm not sure they are really much better than normal tacticals point for point either.

Watch your naming.

not my stupid ass names, they are GW's. I don't care what they are called, I think the whole line is a joke to begin with. And yeah, I didn't realize you have to pay 15 per assault bolter, must have not checked them once the actual book came out because I was thinking they were 45 points a piece. at 135 for 3, that wouldn't be too bad, but yeah, at 225, thats dumb as hell.

Ahah, yeah, I'm having a hard time remembering their names too. Like, I get that it's all made up names for totally fictional things, but man, they could have made it a little more intuitive.
Primaris tactical squad. Primaris Assault squad. Primaris devastator squad.
Is that so hard?

Double as pistol is very efficient for vanguard. Though with the knowledge that this kind of set up could change in legality when the codex comes out

 Coyote81 wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
Ooooh good call with the Dante / intercesor combo. I was trying to think of a good way to combo his re-roll ability with shooty units and I was like, uhhh attack bikes maybe?


Yeah, the whole fall back shoot thing is very nice. Like, it's basically a tau move so it's gonna feel unusual doing it, but I can see the potential.

But maaan, they're 75 points each. That's sooooo glass cannon-ey. Attack bikes cost as much and put out just a lil less dakka, but are way more durable, and land speeders are just over 100 pts, but again, way more durable and put out more long range dakka.

31 pts for a Sternguard w/ combi plasma vs 38 for the hellblaster guy. Hellblaster guy has better range, better ap, and an extra wound. Sternguard has a bolter. Considering how expensive drop pods are, I might be more into the hellblasters here. WE'LL SEE ONCE I START GAMING, I GUESS.

Did you know it's 32pts for a Company Veteran with Jumppack Chainsword and Plasmagun?

Does anyone think that this unit might be worth it? They don't seem to be filling any necessary battlefield role the way I see it.

And another question, has anyone any good reason to field Baal Predators? I'm not overly enthusiastic with the thought of playing my two Baals as counts-as Razorbacks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. does anyone see any value in playing a Drop Pod list anymore? 105 points for better deployment when 90% of our army can deep strike without risk on 1st turn.

What are we supposed to use it for? Dreadnoughts I guess?

Played my first game of 8th today and I lost. One point lost against chaos. Game winning thing was that when I got a charge with my 7man death company with jump packs, two power swords, two inferno pistols and a thunder hammer against Kharn. Lemartes was there buffing the charge, but was out of charge range so I had to fight against Kharn with only 7 death company marines. Resulting two wounds against Kharn and the whole death company wiped in that charge phase. Don't think the dice were even that bad against me, invulnerable save is so good and the fact that Kharn can attack twice.. Another key factor against my enemy was the fact that when my opponents khorne berzerkers got into an assault I was done, the feat to double attack is so crazy. Ok, he killed my tactical units with zerkers, but actually tar pitted my lascannon razorback was a real downer for me. I tried to flee from combat to get away and shoot with my twin lascannon he always got into fight with me so that all I could do was try to go away and he followed. We had the 18" non-deployment circle with corners as deployment areas. It's brutal to be able to deploy just 18" away from enemy border.

Assault cannon seemed good, but he took my AC razor to 1hp on T1 when he went first, I tried to seize even with the stratagem reroll, didn't manage,

Only thing really performed me was my 3man company veterans from DS with 3 supercharge rapid firing plasma guns, whom took a helbrute in a single turn.

I also totally anhilliated a havocs group with my death company and got carried away by that , which ended up me throwing my DC against 4+ inv. save on the Kharn. Kharn has 5 attacks and ability to attack twice EVERY turn, so he did damage, then he did it again. with 2+ to hit, 3+ to wound, on a 6 to generate more hits.. -4 AP. He was a beast. Actually I think it's a good thing that chaos has got some ups for the characters that are now being viable with rhinos. Why would you shoot a rhino during the game when you have targets like havocs or even tactical squad with heavy/special around. A week ago I would have said rhino's are a no bargain in any list, but now they seem a very decent method of transportation that you don't want to shoot, because it's just a rhino.

Btw, Dread's don't fit into normal pods.

Also I played my baal pred as AC razorback. Can't really see why on earth I would pay that much points for 1 HP and overcharged engines.

Whoah, I'm shocked that many death company couldn't take down kharn. Lemartes was giving them re-rolls too, and they ALL strike first courtesy basic 8th ed rules? I would have thought the thunder hammer guy would have been enough himself...

 soomemafia wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:
Ooooh good call with the Dante / intercesor combo. I was trying to think of a good way to combo his re-roll ability with shooty units and I was like, uhhh attack bikes maybe?


Yeah, the whole fall back shoot thing is very nice. Like, it's basically a tau move so it's gonna feel unusual doing it, but I can see the potential.

But maaan, they're 75 points each. That's sooooo glass cannon-ey. Attack bikes cost as much and put out just a lil less dakka, but are way more durable, and land speeders are just over 100 pts, but again, way more durable and put out more long range dakka.

31 pts for a Sternguard w/ combi plasma vs 38 for the hellblaster guy. Hellblaster guy has better range, better ap, and an extra wound. Sternguard has a bolter. Considering how expensive drop pods are, I might be more into the hellblasters here. WE'LL SEE ONCE I START GAMING, I GUESS.

Did you know it's 32pts for a Company Veteran with Jumppack Chainsword and Plasmagun?

Does anyone think that this unit might be worth it? They don't seem to be filling any necessary battlefield role the way I see it.

And another question, has anyone any good reason to field Baal Predators? I'm not overly enthusiastic with the thought of playing my two Baals as counts-as Razorbacks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. does anyone see any value in playing a Drop Pod list anymore? 105 points for better deployment when 90% of our army can deep strike without risk on 1st turn.

What are we supposed to use it for? Dreadnoughts I guess?

Pinpoint dropping plasmaguns are very good, you can really catch people offguard with characters not properly positioned, so elite units just brought down hard. You can make the unit whatever size you want too, 2-5 models. 65pts for a Sergeant with a combi-plasma and a single plasmagun guy.

 Walnuts wrote:
Whoah, I'm shocked that many death company couldn't take down kharn. Lemartes was giving them re-rolls too, and they ALL strike first courtesy basic 8th ed rules? I would have thought the thunder hammer guy would have been enough himself...

Lemartes was dropped out of buff range when he couldn't join the assault. He only gave the reroll for the charge. If I remember correctly it was like: 3 hits from thunder hammer hitting 4+ and wounding on 2+ resulting 1 wounding which was negated by 4+ invul. save. Two power swords made 6 attacks with 3+ to hit 4+ to wound and 4+ invul. save resulting 0 wounds. Then 16 regular attacks from the remaining 4 death company marines wielding a chainsword did 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound and 3+ armour save resulting 2 wounds. Then Kharn killed four guys and on the double attack killed the remaining three. I should have needed better dice rolls and Lemartes should have been in the charge range as well. Aligning the models for next rounds charge would have given the opponent the opportunity to move and charge the DC which I didn't want. I had two CP left and wanted to save the CP's for intervention on the fight phase if my opponent multi-charged my units. Could have used it for thunder hammer hits, but for the fore mentioned reason I canceled the CP, I took the reroll getting second hit, but canceled it before Kharn took inv. save. I really thought 6 power sword and 16 basic attacks would have done a lot more. 4+ inv. save with 1 reroll if I remember correctly made my charge advantage go away.