Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Purifier wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

mfranks985 wrote:
Your army is far from useless.

Transports in 8th are better than they have been in a LONG time, and that is across most if not all factions. The game will play differently in 8th than it did in 7th. It appears that you either have not read the rules for 8th and your army index, or you you are just gak posting for the fun of it.

Well except pod that got nerfed AND price like trippled.

Razorback good, pod less so.

Can now charge out of it, it can't mishap and it comes down right where you want it instead of scattering away from the objective that you wanted it to hold, and it can't be taken out with one shot anymore. How exactly did it get nerfed?

No more Spamhammer 40k.
Is as if you need a plan and focus on specific units that need a drop-pod to carry it out.

The lists that I've seen this far have had in General about five different units spammed plus buff characters for example assault cannon razorbacks seem to be a popular choice.

Not sure where the sentiment that tranports are 'tough' in this edition is coming from.

From my own games and watching near on 15 battle reports they seem maybe a little bit tougher.

Twin lascannon at a rhino with a couple of lucky damage rolls and its dead in one shot... now factor in in 7th you'd of had 2 rhinos for the pts cost and its really not better at all.

Why are people feeding this guy? From reading his threads he is either an obvious troll or too stubborn for his own good.

Look, you may not like a change, but then you get over it and find another way to play. You don't want the Drop pods you bought? Sell them, there is no blood contract on plastic miniatures.

I find that too many players in this hobby get stuck in a particular mindset and play style, and I don't understand. Why stick to a single type of army? Why not look over the units and find some other interesting list to field?

 Latro_ wrote:
Twin lascannon at a rhino with a couple of lucky damage rolls and its dead in one shot... now factor in in 7th you'd of had 2 rhinos for the pts cost and its really not better at all.

I have emphasized the key part of your post, luck will always play a part in these games.

However if we assume a Lascannon is being fired by a model that has not moved and is hitting on a 3+, you will on average only do 1.3 wounds to a Rhino (2.6 for a twin lascannon). Rhinos have 10 wounds so that twin lascannon would need to be firing for 4 turns to kill it (and that assumes the Rhino does not make any 6s for its self-repair roll).

So it takes 8 shots from a dedicated anti-tank weapon to stop a basic Astartes transport. The 9" range for Deep Striking also makes meltacide a lot more unreliable (or expensive if you take MM Devs to compensate). That means a Rhino can be relied upon to last a couple of turns unless your opponent dedicates a LOT of firepower to stopping it. If that firepower is going against a Rhino, it is not going against my Dread, Land Raider, Terminators etc. 100 points for a Rhino is only steep in comparison to what we are used to.

Running 3 Rhinos with a LR or two and some tasty cargo gives you a decent mechanized army for around 2000 points. Even if you opponent has loaded up on AT weapons, he will not stop more than 1 or 2 before they hit is lines and the troops inside start doing damage while the tanks blast away at short range or charge to tie up shooty units and eat overwatch.

Aye i know the maths, i'm into mathhammer...

i'm just saying from actually playing and watching games its just does not seem to pan out that way.

Mathhammer > reality.

Mathhammer is reliable, reality is not.

There now seems to be the option to put multiple units or characters in a single pod.
All those HQs you are forced to take? Squash them all into a pod.

Twin asscan razorback spam is going to be INSANE.

I'm annoyed; I spent a ton on buying HB upgrades for my rhinos... bah.

As always, you can stick some vets and a chaplain or other character in for some counter-assault.

100pts... for 10 T7 3+ wounds. 12 S6 AP-1 shots at BS3+.

How is this even remotely balanced? It's *better and cheaper than a tac squad...* lol

I can't wait to try out my Rhinos with 2combibolters + havoc launcher. Dakkadakka.
Shame they lost destroyer blades (which could be useful finally) though.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I can't wait to try out my Rhinos with 2combibolters + havoc launcher. Dakkadakka.
Shame they lost destroyer blades (which could be useful finally) though.

Yes, it's a pretty great upgrade and makes the Rhino a decent anti- light infantry unit.

I think I'm going to be whizzing up the table popping smoke instead though! (-1 to hit is *really* powerful).

You cant run an all Drop Pod army anyways anymore, only half your army can start in reserve.

Also, im pretty sure disembarkation is 3", then you get your move as normal, so you only really lose 3". Thr buff is that you can charge from things like Rhinos, so you dont have to take a Land Raider to charge with Power Armour anymore.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You cant run an all Drop Pod army anyways anymore, only half your army can start in reserve.

Also, im pretty sure disembarkation is 3", then you get your move as normal, so you only really lose 3". Thr buff is that you can charge from things like Rhinos, so you dont have to take a Land Raider to charge with Power Armour anymore.

Quite the opposite, it's a free 3"

Half reserve is a matched play rule, so if you are playing narrative, you can still drop pod your whole army. People seem to forget rules like that when they think narrative is just power levels instead of points.

 Crazyterran wrote:
You cant run an all Drop Pod army anyways anymore, only half your army can start in reserve.

Also, im pretty sure disembarkation is 3", then you get your move as normal, so you only really lose 3". Thr buff is that you can charge from things like Rhinos, so you dont have to take a Land Raider to charge with Power Armour anymore.

you can, you just have to deploy half of them on the table when deploying XD

 Karhedron wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Twin lascannon at a rhino with a couple of lucky damage rolls and its dead in one shot... now factor in in 7th you'd of had 2 rhinos for the pts cost and its really not better at all.

I have emphasized the key part of your post, luck will always play a part in these games.

However if we assume a Lascannon is being fired by a model that has not moved and is hitting on a 3+, you will on average only do 1.3 wounds to a Rhino (2.6 for a twin lascannon). Rhinos have 10 wounds so that twin lascannon would need to be firing for 4 turns to kill it (and that assumes the Rhino does not make any 6s for its self-repair roll).

So it takes 8 shots from a dedicated anti-tank weapon to stop a basic Astartes transport. The 9" range for Deep Striking also makes meltacide a lot more unreliable (or expensive if you take MM Devs to compensate). That means a Rhino can be relied upon to last a couple of turns unless your opponent dedicates a LOT of firepower to stopping it. If that firepower is going against a Rhino, it is not going against my Dread, Land Raider, Terminators etc. 100 points for a Rhino is only steep in comparison to what we are used to.

Running 3 Rhinos with a LR or two and some tasty cargo gives you a decent mechanized army for around 2000 points. Even if you opponent has loaded up on AT weapons, he will not stop more than 1 or 2 before they hit is lines and the troops inside start doing damage while the tanks blast away at short range or charge to tie up shooty units and eat overwatch.

This is incorrect, i just did the mathhammer somewhere else for another thread but if you have a dev squad of 4 Lascannons you will reliably hit all 4 times for the 1st salvo because of the armorium cherub and signum, but lets go with 3. 3 Hits, wounding on 3s so 2 go through, its -3 to armor so realistically mr rhino isn't making a save. So now you have 2 Lascannons wounds go through. the average roll on a D6 is 3.5 so x2 = 7. So it would take less then 2 turns to kill a Rhino with a squad of Lascannon Devs. And since every unit can split fire now, you could theoretically start killing another Rhino and finish off the 1st one on turn 2.

zerosignal wrote:
Twin asscan razorback spam is going to be INSANE.

I'm annoyed; I spent a ton on buying HB upgrades for my rhinos... bah.

As always, you can stick some vets and a chaplain or other character in for some counter-assault.

100pts... for 10 T7 3+ wounds. 12 S6 AP-1 shots at BS3+.

How is this even remotely balanced? It's *better and cheaper than a tac squad...* lol

If you're moving those things at all (and at 24" you will) then they won't be quite as effective unless you want to park them on the line.

In any case Magnus has already blown apart 3 of those punks. It's not a good idea to fill your army with only S6 weapons when there are so many models with T7, tons of wounds, and a decent save.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Twin lascannon at a rhino with a couple of lucky damage rolls and its dead in one shot... now factor in in 7th you'd of had 2 rhinos for the pts cost and its really not better at all.

I have emphasized the key part of your post, luck will always play a part in these games.

However if we assume a Lascannon is being fired by a model that has not moved and is hitting on a 3+, you will on average only do 1.3 wounds to a Rhino (2.6 for a twin lascannon). Rhinos have 10 wounds so that twin lascannon would need to be firing for 4 turns to kill it (and that assumes the Rhino does not make any 6s for its self-repair roll).

So it takes 8 shots from a dedicated anti-tank weapon to stop a basic Astartes transport. The 9" range for Deep Striking also makes meltacide a lot more unreliable (or expensive if you take MM Devs to compensate). That means a Rhino can be relied upon to last a couple of turns unless your opponent dedicates a LOT of firepower to stopping it. If that firepower is going against a Rhino, it is not going against my Dread, Land Raider, Terminators etc. 100 points for a Rhino is only steep in comparison to what we are used to.

Running 3 Rhinos with a LR or two and some tasty cargo gives you a decent mechanized army for around 2000 points. Even if you opponent has loaded up on AT weapons, he will not stop more than 1 or 2 before they hit is lines and the troops inside start doing damage while the tanks blast away at short range or charge to tie up shooty units and eat overwatch.

This is incorrect, i just did the mathhammer somewhere else for another thread but if you have a dev squad of 4 Lascannons you will reliably hit all 4 times for the 1st salvo because of the armorium cherub and signum, but lets go with 3. 3 Hits, wounding on 3s so 2 go through, its -3 to armor so realistically mr rhino isn't making a save. So now you have 2 Lascannons wounds go through. the average roll on a D6 is 3.5 so x2 = 7. So it would take less then 2 turns to kill a Rhino with a squad of Lascannon Devs. And since every unit can split fire now, you could theoretically start killing another Rhino and finish off the 1st one on turn 2.

I'm not sure that you've disproved his point - saying it takes twice as many lascannons half as long is pretty self-explanatory I think.

Incidentally, a 4-Lascannon dev squad hit on 3's and "wounded" on 2s and if the Rhino got no save it was already dead, and even with a save it was probably crippled, in earlier editions.

So to say they're not tougher is silly.

SemperMortis wrote:


This is incorrect, i just did the mathhammer somewhere else for another thread but if you have a dev squad of 4 Lascannons you will reliably hit all 4 times for the 1st salvo because of the armorium cherub and signum, but lets go with 3. 3 Hits, wounding on 3s so 2 go through, its -3 to armor so realistically mr rhino isn't making a save. So now you have 2 Lascannons wounds go through. the average roll on a D6 is 3.5 so x2 = 7. So it would take less then 2 turns to kill a Rhino with a squad of Lascannon Devs. And since every unit can split fire now, you could theoretically start killing another Rhino and finish off the 1st one on turn 2.

He's not incorrect. He said it takes 8 shots and it does without Cherub/Signum, which not everyone has.

Signum and Cherub is for one model so 2 shots at 2+ the rest at 3+.

2 * .833 * .666 * .833 * 3.5 = 3.2
3 * .666 * .666 * .833 * 3.5 = 3.9

7.1 out of 10 for 5 shots. Cherub is gone and you'll need at least 2 more shots.

What do you think will be keeping those devastators alive? At 170 points minimum they seem like a great unit to drop in with Scarab Termies.

16 inferno bolter shots * .666 * .5 * .666 = 3.5
4 soulreaper * .666 * .666 * .833 = 1.5

You best be bubble wrapping those devs.

8 Shots from a lascannon is incorrect. so get rid of the signum and Cherub.

6 shots = 4 hits, wounding on 3s so 3 hits, chances are they get no save and then D6 x 3 say he gets slightly less then average he just did 10 wounds which is enough to kill the Rhino, So not 8 shots, its 6.

And again I pointed out that a squad can SPLIT FIRE so he could shoot 4 dev lascannons turn 1 and then finish it off with 2 or if he wasn't sure 3 lascannons while the last cannon shot something else.


I am not saying they aren't more durable I am just pointing out that the math was wrong.

Previously lascannons could theoretically take out a Rhino in 1 shot so obviously they are more durable.

Transports are expensive, but so much better now.

Lets look at the Rhino:
>Survival: It has 10 Wounds taking a minimum of 2 Las-Cannon Shots to kill it. It also has a Saving Throw now. Odds are it will take more than that.
>Speed: It has a Speed of 12", that might not mean a lot, but there is also no more Stun or Immobilized Results, it may slow down, but it wall keep going till it dies. No more sitting there looking like an fool from a luck Heavy Bolter hit.
>Crew Survival: The crew will get out of it even if it dies in the opening volley if you roll a 1 and even then each model only has a 1 in 6 chance of dying now.
>Fire Power: The Storm Bolter gives you 4 Shots at 12" (and if you are a transport you will most likely be at less the 12" most of the time) and 8 Shots if you take the second Storm Bolter. It can even Charge into combat now. You can have it go before the Squad that was in it taking some of the Overwatch Fire, but if it succeeds in the Charge the Squad will not take Overwatch Fire, unless you are charging a T'au Gunline...then you have your own issues.