Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Steamforge's balance isn't really any better or worse than anyone else, but they have always built themselves on the promise of being better than everyone else, so their failures feel more egregious. Matt Hart is legitimately a great game designer, but regularly needs a slice of humble pie. The systems he builds are great, but even from the original Kickstarter, he's sold the design with a sense of infallibility that you hear from armchair game design. Guild Ball is also just a smaller game with not a whole lot of variables from game to game, which makes relatively small balance issues quickly balloon into game warping problems.

I wonder why they couldn´t be bothered to develop the rules to a point that you can see what you are getting and then let the community help with the finetuning.

Right now this looks like a big Alpha-test the gamers have to actually pay for instead of being payed for testing.

To be fair to the company, they didn't "make" anyone pay for anything. I paid for Early Access pack to help develop the game as I'm invested in the company (Guildball is just a fantastic ruleset).

They've done it this way as they want the community involvement to help develop the game. Alex, Jamie, Bryce, Sherwin are all massively sociable (I may be biased as I know them well) and all play there own game as well as a lot of other games. They care about producing quality content for gamers.

Sorry, but normally you develop a game to beta-status before you go public with it and most playtesters are either payed for or at least don´t have to pay anything.

This smells of the not so nice habit of outsorcing costs to the buyers.

It's not normal practice but at the same time if people didn't WANT to help the company, no one would of purchased it.

SFG didn't point a gun to peoples head and say "Buy the early access pack". If people didn't want to do it, it would of sold 0.

Instead people WANT to help develop the game alongside the company and get into the game at the grass roots level.

It is still a kind of devaluation of creative work. And it is actually lazy. You don´t pay now for it, but you will pay later for it. Just check the Play-Store for Android, most stuff their is crap and still people pay stupid sums for it.

I really do disagree with that viewpoint, I see it at a chance for players who want to invest in the game & company to help develop the game and have there input onto it.

Happy to agree to disagree though.

I think we had enough of our share of COOL KS that had great optics but rather blant rules. There is a reason why many backers by now demand to see at least the more or less finalized rules. They have been burnt way to often that way.

Sure, I don't think you realise Godtear was demo'd at Bonescon before the early access pack and had been played by lots of players.

Not only that but all the Godtear rules are currently free on Steamforged games website so you can see the rules before you purchase.

> Sorry, but normally you develop a game to beta-status before you go public with it and most playtesters are either payed for or at least don´t have to pay anything.

Sorry, but you're not sorry.

SJG did this with Car Wars as well. During the Ogre KS, backers could pledge $30 to be on a private forum for the game (and receive merchandising). As Jeff says, "I'm guessing the motivation was to limit the feedback to people who are likely buyers. Opening up the polls/forums to everyone would be a nightmare. If history is any indicator, the MOST vocal whiners haters naysayers people will be the LEAST likely to spend any money on Car Wars, why would SJ want their input?" https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/966096/can-someone-explain-car-wars-kickstarter-campaign

Dunno if this should be "normal", but if it works, it works. We'll find out in one or two years if it worked for Steamforged and SJG...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QJo1U6kjPw

I dropped a new video on the Youtube channel today. Sadly, I couldn't do a review of the early access pack so instead I've done something different.

In the new episode, I breakdown what we know of the fluff so far as well as give a brief overview of the game play. If you haven't looked at the game so far, check this out for a taste of this amazing game!

Well, I'd bounced around on whether to back this or not, but a few things tipped me over the edge into joining in:

1. This video from Salute showing printed models, they look much better than the renders convey:




2. Reviews and feedback from people who tried it at Salute that I've seen have been very positive. One said it was fast, fun and yet very tactical - everything I'm looking for in a game atm!

3. They'll be adding an all in "Ascended" pledge before the end of the campaign.

I have loved Shadespire, and think this game will scratch a similar itch while being awesome in different ways. Looking forward to it

RiTides I'm super stoked to hear you're going to be backing.

Those PVC models really do look fantastic quality! Reath Madrids follower whirlpools look really nice.

Titus looks as nice as I expected, I reallly love that model!

I love the models as well, but I'm seriously annoyed how SFG handles the campaign.

There's been a hefty stall the last four days or so, and there has been nothing by SFG to get it in motion again. It's almost as if they've forgotten they are running a KS.

This company is a bit too much like Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde for my liking (you can guess which is which with Guild Ball and Dark Souls), and it seems to be showing in the KS, again.

To be fair Mutter, the last 4 days for the U.K is a VERY busy time. There is the biggest gaming convention in the U.K via Salute at the london edexecel centre which would of consumed a lot of SFG time.

I would expect them to be more active now Salute has come and gone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SFG have just put out there latest update, with all of rattlebones totems unlocked and a new champion announced as a stretch goal!

Morrigan, queen of the frozen wastes looks like a frost witch.

They have also added a "all in" level pledge

That All In pledge level is sweet!! Awesome to see that they listened on that and I've backed for it!

New champion is already unlocked, up to 14 now!

I had actually dropped my pledge for the game, since I felt like it was one of those games that I couldn't tell if I'd still be interested a whole year (or more) later. But that all-in pledge is really tempting.

Then again, I do try and avoid huge kickstarters, since more backers and pledges just means a higher likelihood of delays.

 RiTides wrote:
2. Reviews and feedback from people who tried it at Salute that I've seen have been very positive. One said it was fast, fun and yet very tactical - everything I'm looking for in a game atm!

Designer is Alex Hall, who also was responsible for Dark Souls (and isn't listed for Guildball).
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/100691/alex-hall

So says to back to pay 110$ because MSRP is 170$(I guess for all with unlocked streach goals, since no one is paying 170$ for 4 champs). Then I have to pay around 30$ for shipping, bringing it to 140$ comapred to 170$ MSRP, and then you will probably get 10-20% discount and free shipping on MSRP, making it pointless to back this now , and pay even if not more compared to retail release?

Yep, I will wait for retail release and reviews of final rules. Too much quality skirmish games atm to bet on something half baked , and they Dark Souls bg and card game have been quite bad tbh.

Two new champions rules unlocked! Mournblade looks really unique his denial style of play to protect his banner. Titus looks like has the potential to kill a lot of things in one turn.

Less than two days left in this campaign. This is the last champion+followers goal:


If the goals are met, this champion+followers will be free to the Chosen and Ascended pledges. If goals are not met, it will be a purchasable add-on in the pledge manager.

That makes 15 champions total.

Anyone else's OCD super frustrated by the idea of 15 champions? One short of 4 of each class, argh

I pinged my gaming group and they were unfortunately skeptical of this one =/. Gameplay videos didn't impress them, it seems. I know it's alpha, but I wish they'd had a bit more to show...

I am really tempted by the all in... There is a lot of content for $300 and given how expensive the single Guild Ball teams are ($50 for 6 guys in plastic) this seems like a really good value... But ... its still $300 right now and there is sooo much else demanding my money...

The newest champion looks like the Ashmen from Wrath of Kings. I like it...

 RiTides wrote:
Anyone else's OCD super frustrated by the idea of 15 champions? One short of 4 of each class, argh

Since video games like LoL does not have an equal number of each class, it does not bother me that much. 5 sets of 3-champion teams for a draft event. I can live with that And hopefully there will be more champions released when the game hits retail.

While doing other things at Salute two of my party played Godstear, they liked it a lot. A damn decent ruleset.

I'm surprised at the lack of interest in this game from both my gaming group, and on Dakka...

It had an impressive finish, getting £340k ($474k USD!) and unlocking another free champion. However, the lead up to the last few days was interesting, as the backer numbers dropped significantly, but the totals went up as the remaining backers upped to "all in" pledges.

In the end, I couldn't stay in with no one in my group wanting in, but I would love to see this take off and will happily invest at retail if it does well!

That's some impressive multitasking there!

Can you give us more info on what they like a lot?

 RiTides wrote:
I'm surprised at the lack of interest in this game from both my gaming group, and on Dakka...

It had an impressive finish, getting £340k ($474k USD!) and unlocking another free champion. However, the lead up to the last few days was interesting, as the backer numbers dropped significantly, but the totals went up as the remaining backers upped to "all in" pledges.

In the end, I couldn't stay in with no one in my group wanting in, but I would love to see this take off and will happily invest at retail if it does well!

The bigger champions thing bothered me.

They weren't just larger models that belong to a faction, they were literally larger models with the same proportions as the smaller ones.

Edit: Also, I had the same thing happening as you. The people I'd be playing the game with wouldn't be playing so I went with another game which they were going to play.

That's essentially the lore. The champions are collecting Godtears and as they do grow to mythic proportions.

It's an interesting game, but none of the champions really grabbed me. They're fine looking fantasy models but none of them scream "I wanna play that guy" to me. I'm just not a huge fan of "muddy" Tolkien inspired fantasy styling and too many of the champions are stock monsters for my liking.

Cool game though. I hope it does well and takes off. I'll certainly be interested in picking it up later as there are some specific Champions that definitely interest me.

Oh I get that. It still bothers me the way primarchs bother me,
but at least I can buy those separately and paint them up as
their own thing. The champions are bigger models that aren't
exactly centerpieces.

Anyway, biggest issue for me was the same as RiTides. I
wasn't going to play really, so if I'm only okay with the minis...