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Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

Not sure what to say to that, other than that this thread, serving so many purposes!


   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Ouze wrote:

It's not reasonable that some people can see a topic they're not interested in, flat out declare in the thread they're going to get it locked, proceed to crap it up, and then successfully have it locked, over and over again.
Yep. I really hope that the moderation team would reconsider their stance on this.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
But as for rule #1, I think the problem is nicely highlighted by the fact that someone who directly called me "the most toxic poster on the forum" last night and had it deleted (along with most of their other posts in the thread, including other rudeness) is still posting without even a 24 hour ban, while I can guarantee that if i had said the same thing I'd be banned now.


 Peregrine wrote:
And no, I am not saying they're too lax on people I disagree with, I'm saying they're too lax on trolling..


Here's a few things that come to mind when I see you post:

You've jumped into forum discussions more than once to make them volatile. I've seen you do it more than once, in fact- I've commented that "Here comes Peregrine, he doesn't like the topic so he's going to turn it into a toxic mess to get it shut down".

You seem to think everyone disagreeing with you in some way is 'trolling', you reduce an opposing argument to someone 'just being a troll' an dismiss their entire argument. That's volatile and inflammatory, but almost ironic given the last statement i just made.

I'll even say this, you are not the most 'toxic' person on this forum. But you can turn a discussion toxic pretty quick. You actually got one of my threads locked because you and your pal came in to harass me, and it was bad enough that a Moderator had to edit it, but by then it was completely destroyed. I want to make it clear- the moment someone came out and tried to express an unformed idea and shape it, you and someone else started harassing the poster. I'm a jerk, but I wouldn't do that to another person. I don't even like using this phrase, but it is clearly cyber-bullying behavior.

I don't even like calling someone 'toxic' but that is pretty damned scummy behavior. You're shocked I'm not on a 24 hour ban? I'm shocked you're not on a permanent one.

You and a handful of other persons on this forum have a very simple problem where you think you can just snipe at people all day long, and you think it's subtle- but any idiot can see it. Then, whenever it gets thrown back at you, you get upset.

Or, when you do what I've been doing and doing as one mod asked me to do and use the feature when someone starts outright flaming and insulting people, then we get what we have right here.

Anyway, off topic- but on my mobile phone I logged in 3 times with the wrong password and it said my account was banned until 3018. Weird glitch but I lol'd.

EDIT: And, of course, addressing grievances with moderator action is another violation of forum rules.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/02/19 15:01:55


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Crimson wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:


Yeah, that's right, Crimson is the one calling Mods misogynsts.
What? When did I do that?


When you said this:

 Crimson wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
You seem to be assuming that the thread was locked because of a single troll, rather than because of the topic.

So basically anything that contains word 'woman' or 'female' is a banned topic. Does this seem reasonable to you?


You're making a blanket accusation of bigotry.

   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 techsoldaten wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:


Yeah, that's right, Crimson is the one calling Mods misogynsts.
What? When did I do that?


When you said this:

 Crimson wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
You seem to be assuming that the thread was locked because of a single troll, rather than because of the topic.

So basically anything that contains word 'woman' or 'female' is a banned topic. Does this seem reasonable to you?


You're making a blanket accusation of bigotry.
What? I most certainly am not. I was merely stating the effective end result of this moderation stance.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
You've jumped into forum discussions more than once to make them volatile.


No I haven't. I have jumped into discussions with an opinion, sometimes an opinion that people disagree strongly with, but I normally post only things that are my sincere opinion. I can't say I have with every single post I've made, because I've made a lot of posts and I don't remember every one of them, but posting something I don't believe is certainly a rare event if it ever happens.

I've seen you do it more than once, in fact- I've commented that "Here comes Peregrine, he doesn't like the topic so he's going to turn it into a toxic mess to get it shut down".


I am not responsible for your mistaken assumptions about my intent. My goal is never to get discussions shut down. In fact, if I'm posting in a discussion, I'm almost always going to be annoyed if it gets shut down because I want to keep posting about it.

You seem to think everyone disagreeing with you in some way is 'trolling', you reduce an opposing argument to someone 'just being a troll' an dismiss their entire argument. That's volatile and inflammatory, but almost ironic given the last statement i just made.


{citation needed}

Please stop making up stories about what I post, especially when I have explicitly stated that there are people who disagree with me who are not trolling.

You actually got one of my threads locked because you and your pal came in to harass me


Again, please stop making up stories like this. I came into the thread because I saw the title, read the post, and decided that it was a piece of bad game design that needed to be commented on. Only after that did I happen to see that it was you that posted it, and only after you jumped in with your ridiculous "HARASSMENT" post did I bother to care who the OP was. The same post by any other person would have received the exact same reply.

I want to make it clear- the moment someone came out and tried to express an unformed idea and shape it, you and someone else started harassing the poster. I'm a jerk, but I wouldn't do that to another person. I don't even like using this phrase, but it is clearly cyber-bullying behavior.


Uh, no. "This is bad design and doomed to failure" is not harassing and cyber-bulling. Please stop being so over-dramatic.

Then, whenever it gets thrown back at you, you get upset.


No, actually I don't. My disagreement with the forum's obsession with politeness applies to insults directed at me as well. I would be quite happy to laugh off attempted insults and return them with interest, except that doing so gets moderator attention. The only thing I disagree with is the double standard where people are free to post thinly-veiled insults aimed at me (when they aren't making direct insults), but replying with similar comments of my own is ban-worthy.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
The only thing I disagree with is the double standard where people are free to post thinly-veiled insults aimed at me (when they aren't making direct insults), but replying with similar comments of my own is ban-worthy.


Then perhaps you should take it up with a mod, instead of violating more forum rules by discussing mod actions in the forums instead of privately?

You -do- realize they'll talk to you if you message them, right?

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Crimson wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:


Yeah, that's right, Crimson is the one calling Mods misogynsts.
What? When did I do that?


When you said this:

 Crimson wrote:
 insaniak wrote:
You seem to be assuming that the thread was locked because of a single troll, rather than because of the topic.

So basically anything that contains word 'woman' or 'female' is a banned topic. Does this seem reasonable to you?


You're making a blanket accusation of bigotry.
What? I most certainly am not. I was merely stating the effective end result of this moderation stance.


Make an outrageous claim, walk it back when you are called out, pretend other people are stupid.

Trolling like this worries me a lot more than the explicit, shut-down-the-thread statements other people in this thread have been complaining about. It's called gaslighting and it just destroys online communities.

While I am glad the Mods are being very patient with people who do this sort of thing, it's very dirty. I don't see why you would want to do this to other members of your community.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Then perhaps you should take it up with a mod, instead of violating more forum rules by discussing mod actions in the forums instead of privately?

You -do- realize they'll talk to you if you message them, right?


And I also realize that this is the (current) thread for discussing opinions of moderator actions. Do you think that the forum feedback section is supposed to only be for praising the moderators? I mean, I'm sure their egos might like that policy, but I don't think anyone could defend it as reasonable...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, could you quote this supposed "no discussion of mod actions" rule? I am aware that some forums have such a policy, but it does not appear in the rules: https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 15:24:04


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

Unreasonable and insulting assumption!

You seem to have a skewed and jaundiced view of the Moderators here - why is this?

When did it start?

NOTE: There is no such rule - don't discuss Moderator actions - that I'm aware of.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/19 15:27:30


   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Alpharius wrote:
Unreasonable and insulting assumption!

You seem to have a skewed and jaundiced view of the Moderators here - why is this?

When did it start?

NOTE: There is no such rule - don't discuss Moderator actions - that I'm aware of.



Perhaps you should quote the message you are responding to, so we are all clear.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Alpharius wrote:
You seem to have a skewed and jaundiced view of the Moderators here - why is this?


Me? I call it being realistic. Just as I would approve of a whole forum section dedicated to praising me (get on this now, admin) I assume that the mods are at least half as narcissistic as I am.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 techsoldaten wrote:

Make an outrageous claim, walk it back when you are called out, pretend other people are stupid.

Trolling like this worries me a lot more than the explicit, shut-down-the-thread statements other people in this thread have been complaining about. It's called gaslighting and it just destroys online communities.

While I am glad the Mods are being very patient with people who do this sort of thing, it's very dirty. I don't see why you would want to do this to other members of your community.
I really have no idea what you're talking about. I said nothing about the motivations of the mods. They just probably think it is less work this way. But the end result is crazy regardless.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
And I also realize that this is the (current) thread for discussing opinions of moderator actions. Do you think that the forum feedback section is supposed to only be for praising the moderators? I mean, I'm sure their egos might like that policy, but I don't think anyone could defend it as reasonable...


Right. But right now it seems to be you complaining because someone who's almost as rude as you are isn't being booted permanently.

I'll gladly take a permanent ban from Dakkadakka. If you think that's fair. If that's what you want.

But I'll ask the mod doing so to hold you to the same standard.

 Peregrine wrote:
Also, could you quote this supposed "no discussion of mod actions" rule? I am aware that some forums have such a policy, but it does not appear in the rules: https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp


 Alpharius wrote:

NOTE: There is no such rule - don't discuss Moderator actions - that I'm aware of.


Ah. Well, I am mistaken. It's usually the thing on most forums. This might be the first I've seen that rule not in effect.


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
But right now it seems to be you complaining because someone who's almost as rude as you are isn't being booted permanently.


{citation needed}

I don't recall ever calling for a permanent ban for you, but it's nice to see you admit that you said some pretty rude things.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
-






-

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
And I also realize that this is the (current) thread for discussing opinions of moderator actions. Do you think that the forum feedback section is supposed to only be for praising the moderators? I mean, I'm sure their egos might like that policy, but I don't think anyone could defend it as reasonable...


Right. But right now it seems to be you complaining because someone who's almost as rude as you are isn't being booted permanently.

I'll gladly take a permanent ban from Dakkadakka. If you think that's fair. If that's what you want.

But I'll ask the mod doing so to hold you to the same standard.

 Peregrine wrote:
Also, could you quote this supposed "no discussion of mod actions" rule? I am aware that some forums have such a policy, but it does not appear in the rules: https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp


 Alpharius wrote:

NOTE: There is no such rule - don't discuss Moderator actions - that I'm aware of.


Ah. Well, I am mistaken. It's usually the thing on most forums. This might be the first I've seen that rule not in effect.



Most Mod actions here are done privately - outside of the necessary post edit or in thread warning.

Most times if a user is warned or suspended, the only way for someone else to know that is if the warned or suspended party brings it up.


   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
I don't recall ever calling for a permanent ban for you, but it's nice to see you admit that you said some pretty rude things.


Oh yes, I've said some rude things. I admit it. And generally speaking, everything I said to you I have no regrets about and will never say was 'wrong'.

I've said some things that are simply 'firm, but disagreeable' and some folks have taken great offense to this. You and I both know some gamer geeks can be hyper-sensitive manchildren at times.

Again, I'm less rude than you are by a long shot (You don't see me going in to harass you when you make a creative thread).

I'll take a permanent ban. If you're held to the same standard.

In fact, I think the mods would be wise to review both of our behavior and make a decision.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
I don't recall ever calling for a permanent ban for you, but it's nice to see you admit that you said some pretty rude things.


Oh yes, I've said some rude things. I admit it. And generally speaking, everything I said to you I have no regrets about and will never say was 'wrong'.

I've said some things that are simply 'firm, but disagreeable' and some folks have taken great offense to this. You and I both know some gamer geeks can be hyper-sensitive manchildren at times.

Again, I'm less rude than you are by a long shot (You don't see me going in to harass you when you make a creative thread).

I'll take a permanent ban. If you're held to the same standard.

In fact, I think the mods would be wise to review both of our behavior and make a decision.


Or maybe no one gets banned and we stop asking the Mods to be adult babysitters.

They keep the spam off the forum, they keep US politics out of the forums, and they enforce some set of rules no one has ever read.

That should be enough.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
(You don't see me going in to harass you when you make a creative thread)


And you continue to demonstrate your rudeness by accusing me of harassment, despite me telling you (and anyone else reading) that my posts about your idea had nothing to do with the fact that you were the author, and had been written before I even noticed who made the OP.

Please note that, while obviously it isn't going to court, your blatantly false accusations of harassment (potentially a crime) are arguably an act of libel against me. And TBH, your only possible defense would be that nobody finds you a credible authority on anything or cares that you said it.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Peregrine wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
(You don't see me going in to harass you when you make a creative thread)


And you continue to demonstrate your rudeness by accusing me of harassment, despite me telling you (and anyone else reading) that my posts about your idea had nothing to do with the fact that you were the author, and had been written before I even noticed who made the OP.

Please note that, while obviously it isn't going to court, your blatantly false accusations of harassment (potentially a crime) are arguably an act of libel against me. And TBH, your only possible defense would be that nobody finds you a credible authority on anything or cares that you said it.


Peregrine, just start your own forum and make yourself the Mod. Stop criminalizing the actions of everyone who doesn't agree with you.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 techsoldaten wrote:
Peregrine, just start your own forum and make yourself the Mod. Stop criminalizing the actions of everyone who doesn't agree with you.


There is a distinct difference between disagreeing with me and making public (and clearly false) accusations that I have committed a crime.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Peregrine wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Peregrine, just start your own forum and make yourself the Mod. Stop criminalizing the actions of everyone who doesn't agree with you.


There is a distinct difference between disagreeing with me and making public (and clearly false) accusations that I have committed a crime.


Harassment has a legal meaning and a social meaning. No one took that comment to mean the former.

Call your forums Banhammer and take Crimson with you.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
And you continue to demonstrate your rudeness by accusing me of harassment, despite me telling you (and anyone else reading) that my posts about your idea had nothing to do with the fact that you were the author, and had been written before I even noticed who made the OP.


Except that a name is right beside a post in the little menu.


 Peregrine wrote:
Please note that, while obviously it isn't going to court, your blatantly false accusations of harassment (potentially a crime) are arguably an act of libel against me. And TBH, your only possible defense would be that nobody finds you a credible authority on anything or cares that you said it.


Right. I don't know what nanny state you live in, but it's not illegal to have a disagreement on the internet.

By all means, I would love to see you go wailing and whinging to the authorities because someone said you were harassing them on Dakkadakka.

I want you to throw as much money as possible into the legal fees, too.

Just do it.

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
And you continue to demonstrate your rudeness by accusing me of harassment, despite me telling you (and anyone else reading) that my posts about your idea had nothing to do with the fact that you were the author, and had been written before I even noticed who made the OP.


Except that a name is right beside a post in the little menu.


 Peregrine wrote:
Please note that, while obviously it isn't going to court, your blatantly false accusations of harassment (potentially a crime) are arguably an act of libel against me. And TBH, your only possible defense would be that nobody finds you a credible authority on anything or cares that you said it.


Right. I don't know what nanny state you live in, but it's not illegal to have a disagreement on the internet.

By all means, I would love to see you go wailing and whinging to the authorities because someone said you were harassing them on Dakkadakka.

I want you to throw as much money as possible into the legal fees, too.

Just do it.


Egging him on just means this will never stop. Don't feed the trolls.

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 techsoldaten wrote:
Call your forums Banhammer and take Crimson with you.


...actually, if they left- so would I.

XD

Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Call your forums Banhammer and take Crimson with you.


...actually, if they left- so would I.

XD


Me too.

   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Except that a name is right beside a post in the little menu.


And not everyone bothers to look at what that name is. Or bothers to remember who you are. You genuinely weren't that interesting to me before now, and if you stop with the hyperbolic responses to criticism and open insults you'll probably fade back into the anonymous crowd of people who I can't bother to keep track of.

I don't know what nanny state you live in, but it's not illegal to have a disagreement on the internet.


Having a disagreement on the internet is not illegal. Falsely accusing someone of a crime in a public manner is not mere "disagreement".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Boy this, uh, took a turn.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Ouze wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
On the other hand, I've been on a few forums here and there and this one has some of the strictest moderation


I agree but generally I've found it excellent. I think this site has some really great moderators in specific, like Reds8n, Alpharius, Motyak, Insaniak, KK, etc. If you go to Facebook groups around the h-h-hobby you'll quickly find lighter moderation isn't always better.

Mostly I'm just really disappointed and dejected not only by some (imo) really high profile bad moderation I saw recently, but a tacit endorsement of the heckler's veto. ITT you have mods saying some threads are problematic, but I think you have problematic posters, not problematic topics. Perhaps I am being naive and not just accepting that this is how the community actually is despite ample evidence that well, it is.

It's not reasonable that some people can see a topic they're not interested in, flat out declare in the thread they're going to get it locked, proceed to crap it up, and then successfully have it locked, over and over again.


This is a really great point, and it's getting lost in the noise. Which is exactly what he's talking about, really.

 Crimson wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:

Suggesting the entire group is a bunch of misogynists could be called trolling.

At least in the Custodes thread no one certainly did so or anything even remotely sounding like that. (And it rarely happens otherwise either, it is just that some people interpret 'There is sexism in the gaming community' to mean 'all gamers are sexist'.)


So is this. I remember a thread way, waaaay back, wondering where female Guardsman models were. Most people were pointing out alternate companies you could use, others were speculating about what GW could make or talking about how cool Lieutenant Mira from the Space Marine video game was, and a couple of people were yelling about how the Imperium would never use female Guardsmen because women make terrible soldiers and you're an Ess-Jay-Doubleyew idiot for even bringing it up, so on and so forth.

Actually, I don't remember if that one was locked or not...

   
Made in us
Posts with Authority





 Peregrine wrote:
And not everyone bothers to look at what that name is.


[citation needed]

 Peregrine wrote:
Or bothers to remember who you are.


[citation needed]

 Peregrine wrote:
You genuinely weren't that interesting to me before now, and if you stop with the hyperbolic responses to criticism and open insults you'll probably fade back into the anonymous crowd of people who I can't bother to keep track of.


And if I don't stop you'll do what, exactly?

 Peregrine wrote:
Falsely accusing someone of a crime in a public manner is not mere "disagreement".


You also kicked my dog and broke into my house.

Take that to court, too. Just knock yourself out.


Mob Rule is not a rule. 
   
 
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