Will GW improve Tau enough? Comparing AM to Tau - New Shooting kings to Old

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**LoyalGuardsman69**

Tau riptides were perhaps the most universally loathed unit of 7th edition. Many folks would consider somebody who brought 2 or more to be an exemplar of the worst aspects of the game! (not me but the sentiment was out there) Tau players are lucky that the riptide was even included in their index, since we had our vendettas removed for being too powerful.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Aaranis wrote:
Coming from someone who works at a Warhammer Store: Commanders will indeed be limited to 1 per detachment, but so will Daemon Princes, Assassins and maybe more units similar. He claims to have seen a picture of such a rule.

We're closer everyday to a game where armies are made of logical and rational compositions, yeah !

Ugh, I hate 1/ rules. Fix the problem that makes the unit "broken", because 1/ rules just cause things to break down when you play larger games.

Also, aren't there only like 3 different Tau HQ options? There's Suit Commander, Ethereal, and Cadre Fireblade; plus a bunch of unique characters, IIRC.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

LoyalGuardsman69 wrote:
Tau riptides were perhaps the most universally loathed unit of 7th edition. Many folks would consider somebody who brought 2 or more to be an exemplar of the worst aspects of the game! (not me but the sentiment was out there) Tau players are lucky that the riptide was even included in their index, since we had our vendettas removed for being too powerful.

Vendettas were removed for being from Forge World. They're still there in the IA book.

**tneva82**

Ice_can wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
But why shoulf a weapon br cheaper if the extra cost of the stat is built into the unit cost? Or is it maybe tau weapons got over costed based upon 7th edition and they just don't work aswell with the 8th edition wounding charts and saves?

Because 2+ hitting laspistol is obviously as good as 2+ hitting lascannon eh? Or howabout BS2+ on guy with heavy flamer. That BS2+ upgrade sure was worth it eh?

Next you claim power fist on S3 is worth as many points as powerfist on S4 guys.

If your paying for the stat line on a model you pay for the BS in the models cost. The weapons should be points costed relative to each other, at no point did I say a lascannon should cost the same as a laspistol. If your putting a flamer on a BS2 model thats your choice you shouldn't get a cheaper model/flamer just because you happen to be not using the BS. But by the same token a burst cannon is a burst cannon shouldn't matter who its issued to if they have ballanced out the models cost properly. This making a weapons cost vary with BS shows that apparently ws and bs aren't costed for in the models base cost. At which point GW should just make it a simple matrix with weapon vrs BS and you look up the pointa cost from their. Would also stop certain armies being under or overcharged for a given weapon.

But value of bs is dependant on weapon. Thus if you price it in model rather than weapon it's wrong.

Even costing weapon on bs is not enough as lascannon on bs3 guy a is not automatically as good as lascannon on bs3 guy b but it's hell of a lot better than obviously broken flat weapon price is

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
Coming from someone who works at a Warhammer Store: Commanders will indeed be limited to 1 per detachment, but so will Daemon Princes, Assassins and maybe more units similar. He claims to have seen a picture of such a rule.

We're closer everyday to a game where armies are made of logical and rational compositions, yeah !

Ugh, I hate 1/ rules. Fix the problem that makes the unit "broken", because 1/ rules just cause things to break down when you play larger games.

Also, aren't there only like 3 different Tau HQ options? There's Suit Commander, Ethereal, and Cadre Fireblade; plus a bunch of unique characters, IIRC.

.

Well at least this is 1 per detachment. In big games you have more detachments

**ballzonya**

I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

**Martel732**

ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

**davou**

ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

Necrons need it worse

**Resipsa131**

ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

GTFO of here with Tau being bottom tier. Outside of hoard spam which almost all armies can do ORKs are memetier, Necrons are a shooty army that is slow they can't FLY out of Melee combat like Tua can and GSC where to begin - GSC Cult can't even take Tyranid relics or use Tyranid Stratagems. They are an alpha strike army with no reliable way to get into alpha strike distance. No reliable charges, worse genestealers than the tyranids. When was the last time some one used Cult Ambush in a Tournament?

Tau are actually competitive in tournaments so how can they be the worst race?

**ballzonya**

necrons are still better costed points wise then tau in my opinion. forget about commander spam.

**Darsath**

ballzonya wrote:
necrons are still better costed points wise then tau in my opinion. forget about commander spam.

Necrons are certainly more overcosted than Tau (for the most part)

**davou**

ballzonya wrote:
necrons are still better costed points wise then tau in my opinion. forget about commander spam.

Yeah, You're very much wrong.

**Galas**

If they are gonna limit Coldstar and Crisis Suit commanders, I hope they give us Stealth Suiths and Ghostkheel commanders.

At least the Stealth Suiths ones, I really really love Sealth Suiths and I would love to have one as HQ.

**MrMoustaffa**

Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

**Vaktathi**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

don't forget 6th, 4th, and 3rd

(That said, Tau do really needs lots of help).

**John Prins**

ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

Nah, Tau aren't horrible, they just have a lot of horrible units in their list. They need internal balance more than anything. Right now, it's Crisis Commanders, Stealth Teams, Drones, Pathfinders and Fire Warriors (not counting Forge World).

I'll be happy if you can add Crisis Suits to the list of 'good' Tau units, but I'm hopeful for a broader balance. The entire Heavy Support part of Tau needs to get better.

**NurglesR0T**

Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:

Yeah it would make sense. But doesn't mean GW would change retroactively. GW is known for changing codex style after few codexes

All codices that contain Demon Princes have now been printed, so if that rumor is true, this will indeed be retroactive.

Wouldn't be the first time they've made hard changes to a codex via FAQ/Errata. It is certainly in the realm of possibility to introduce a sentence in the next FAQ "Add ... Limit of 1 model per army"

ballzonya wrote:
necrons are still better costed points wise then tau in my opinion. forget about commander spam.

What? You've either never played against Necrons, or haven't looked at the index for them.

**Martel732**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

IG weren't terrible at shooting in 7th. But then, neither are Tau in 8th. So I suppose that's fair.

**lolman1c**

I hear they're going to allow multiple nearby units help out in overwatch.

**Fueli**

lolman1c wrote:
I hear they're going to allow multiple nearby units help out in overwatch.

This is already a thing.

**Kanluwen**

Martel732 wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

IG weren't terrible at shooting in 7th. But then, neither are Tau in 8th. So I suppose that's fair.

We really, really played different games didn't we?

Guard shooting in 7th required you to invest heavily in things with Ignores Cover and decent AP--or tricks to grant you Ignores Cover or Rend.
Because things just basically laughed off your shots otherwise.

**Wolfblade**

Kanluwen wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

IG weren't terrible at shooting in 7th. But then, neither are Tau in 8th. So I suppose that's fair.

We really, really played different games didn't we?

Guard shooting in 7th required you to invest heavily in things with Ignores Cover and decent AP--or tricks to grant you Ignores Cover or Rend.
Because things just basically laughed off your shots otherwise.

that was pretty much all of shooting in 7th though. If you didn't have AP2/ignores cover your shooting was much worse, unless you could put out a ton of spam (i.e. scatbikes), and it wasn't unique to just guard.

**Martel732**

Divination psykers made guard solidly middle tier in 7th. I saw such lists even pull out victories against gladius.

**NurglesR0T**

Kanluwen wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
ballzonya wrote:
I think out of the remaining codexs tau are absolutely the worst and in need of something. they are a shooty army that is horrible at shooting how is that possible?

You're not the IG. That's how.

You know you could flip Tau and IG in that little quote and you'd have 7th edition.

IG weren't terrible at shooting in 7th. But then, neither are Tau in 8th. So I suppose that's fair.

We really, really played different games didn't we?

Guard shooting in 7th required you to invest heavily in things with Ignores Cover and decent AP--or tricks to grant you Ignores Cover or Rend.
Because things just basically laughed off your shots otherwise.

Guard and every other army in 7th that wasn't Tau or Eldar suffered from this (outside a few gimmick powers and units that granted ignores cover)

One of the reasons I'm torn with the cover system in 8th. On one hand it isn't in depth enough and outside of LOS blocking terrain, in most cases it may as well not be there. But on the other hand it's removed the broken "everything has a 4+ or better cover save rendering AP useless"

**meleti**

Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
Coming from someone who works at a Warhammer Store: Commanders will indeed be limited to 1 per detachment, but so will Daemon Princes, Assassins and maybe more units similar. He claims to have seen a picture of such a rule.

We're closer everyday to a game where armies are made of logical and rational compositions, yeah !

Wow, if they extend this to everything that makes sense fluff wise i can count:

- Company commanders
- Hyve Tyrants
- Neurothropes
- Big bozz
- GK Grand Masters
-...

Yeah it would make sense. But doesn't mean GW would change retroactively. GW is known for changing codex style after few codexes

All codices that contain Demon Princes have now been printed, so if that rumor is true, this will indeed be retroactive.

Of course, "my buddy at the GW store" is about as reliable as "my uncle works at Nintendo and..."

**NurglesR0T**

meleti wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
Coming from someone who works at a Warhammer Store: Commanders will indeed be limited to 1 per detachment, but so will Daemon Princes, Assassins and maybe more units similar. He claims to have seen a picture of such a rule.

We're closer everyday to a game where armies are made of logical and rational compositions, yeah !

Wow, if they extend this to everything that makes sense fluff wise i can count:

- Company commanders
- Hyve Tyrants
- Neurothropes
- Big bozz
- GK Grand Masters
-...

Yeah it would make sense. But doesn't mean GW would change retroactively. GW is known for changing codex style after few codexes

All codices that contain Demon Princes have now been printed, so if that rumor is true, this will indeed be retroactive.

Of course, "my buddy at the GW store" is about as reliable as "my uncle works at Nintendo and..."

My Father's friend's cousin's former room mate saw a plastic Thunderhawk in production. True story.

**pinecone77**

I agree that Tau need some serious work. If it were me, I'd dump the whole marker light chart, and make Marker Lights an Aura. So nearby units get some sort of bonus...maybe have some stacking, but mostly make it Simple.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

pinecone77 wrote:
I agree that Tau need some serious work. If it were me, I'd dump the whole marker light chart, and make Marker Lights an Aura. So nearby units get some sort of bonus...maybe have some stacking, but mostly make it Simple.

Dude no. Just give us the 7th edition system back.

**lolman1c**

My cat told me they're going to make riptides op. Buy riptides! Buy all the riptides!

**FrozenDwarf**

aslong as i can use a pure mech suit army at reasonable pointcost and effectivess(and that means ALL suits) and markerlights are actualy usefull, then i would consider that an improvment.

tau aint about fleshies, they are about suits!

**AdmiralHalsey**

NurglesR0T wrote:
meleti wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Aaranis wrote:
Coming from someone who works at a Warhammer Store: Commanders will indeed be limited to 1 per detachment, but so will Daemon Princes, Assassins and maybe more units similar. He claims to have seen a picture of such a rule.

We're closer everyday to a game where armies are made of logical and rational compositions, yeah !

Wow, if they extend this to everything that makes sense fluff wise i can count:

- Company commanders
- Hyve Tyrants
- Neurothropes
- Big bozz
- GK Grand Masters
-...

Yeah it would make sense. But doesn't mean GW would change retroactively. GW is known for changing codex style after few codexes

All codices that contain Demon Princes have now been printed, so if that rumor is true, this will indeed be retroactive.

Of course, "my buddy at the GW store" is about as reliable as "my uncle works at Nintendo and..."

My Father's friend's cousin's former room mate saw a plastic Thunderhawk in production. True story.

HALF LIFE THREE CONFIRMED.

I think GW will improve Tau just fine. New rules = New Sales. They've not waited this long to give them garbage tier Codex. The only question is will they make them too good?

**dragonelf**

Necrons are pretty strong at the moment. Expect their codex to make them even stronger.