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Is quite easy to build an army capable of absorbing an Alpha Strike.

 greyknight12 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
Is there any data out there in regards to win % based on going first or second? I feel like going first is almost always going to provide an advantage due to alpha strikes and I would be curious to see a data analysis

ITC has repeatedly said that going second with their missions wins more often than not; I'm not sure of the source of that data though since BCP doesn't have a place in the app to record that and at least at LVO it wasn't asked. I think there's more to it though: anecdotally today I tabled a Harlequin list (BRB missions) with Custodes bikers on turn 2 and he went first...because my list was better suited against him. So I don't know how many of those "going second" victories are actually due to list/army matchup; if your list is vastly better than your opponent's you might choose to go second for last word on objectives. I still believe that going first is generally better though because for 3/4 of the points in a given turn it doesn't matter and taking out chunks of your opponent's firepower before it can damage you is huge (and as I've pointed out in other threads, the champions missions favor killing your opponent rather than objective grabbing).

As far as general guidance though, I think another consideration is mental attitude. You have to accept that on the first turn in 8th edition, whether you go first or second, you are going to lose a large chunk of your army. I've seen quite a few players take perfectly normal damage (for 8th) turn 1 and then mentally give up because they don't think they can win. Play to win always, because your return salvo is probably stronger than you think and you still have a chance.

We need some data for non ITC events on this.
I expect that in missions with end of game scoring, going second is indeed an advantage, while in the progressive scoring missions going first will be best. Since those are split 3-3 in the eternal war missions, i can see the final result being that over a certain number of games going first or second is not relevant.

Another thing to consider is most armies have a stratagem that allows you to place one or more units in reserve to DS in some manner. The great thing about this is you don't "have" to use it. If you are likely to go first (IE you have fewer units than your opp) or no solid alpha strike you can keep them on the board for extra presence/shots. If he does Spend the CP and protect the units.

The first 3-4 games of 8th I played I got murdered by several good alpha strike armies. Since then I have learned that you "NEED" to reserve important units or bubble wrap them properly or they will die.

A fun thing to do that really messes with many alpha lists is to place a jucy target somewhere that exposes his alpha units to your own beta retaliation. Many Alpha units are glass cannons so if you keep something solid in reserve you can counter and destroy them.

Losing hundreds of points in turn 1 by alpha strike is not a thing of 8th edition, it was very true also in 7th.

With my armies I feel it's kind the opposite now, I lose lesser points to alpha strike now with orks and drukhari than in 7th edition.

The question that comes to mind of an ork army is that has to be a green tide? How exactly does someone alpha strike 2k points of boys? Orks only viable build is no fun to play or play against, but is ironically unaffected by alphastrikes. Most alpha strike lists are designed to blitz one or two high value targets, competitive orks have no such target. Quite a few armies can win but it's a grind them down rather than the alpah blitzing tabled in 2 turns.
Haven't seen a dark eldar army in 8th but they sound cheap and more like a paper nuke than a glass cannon build.

One more point to add is that some armies have access to an intercept stratagem. The Eldar one is particularly brutal when combined with Dark Reapers who possess the firepower to severely hurt or outright kill any deep striking units. The awesome thing about the Eldar stratagem is that while it allows you to deploy aggressively your Farseer and Dark Reapers will be equally effective if you deploy them behind cover and opt not to use it.

I'm interested in the transport theory. Which transports make the best ablative armor? I'd imagine Rhinos would be best for imperium but would flyers do better? The reason I ask is most alpha strikers can't charge a flyer so that should cut down some of the advantage. The disadvantage is that flyers are usually more expensive point wise. Would a stormraven make a good troop platform or is it too expensive? Would a landraider with the flamestorm cannons make a poor choice to start units in?

I play guard and I can count on all of my fingers and toes how many games I lost because I screwed up deployment. I always have more units (sometimes by double) than most of my peeps at the club so I always try my best to plan on going second. Here's some stuff I've figured out:

1. Start by deploying your trash first. Like infantry squads, etc. In one game I had a ruin in a corner and one of my first couple of drops saw me castling up in the ruin for a +1 to may save...followed by more dark reapers than you can shake a stick at lining up to take out all 4 manticores. My other option was the other corner out in the open but there was the NOVA line of sight blocking pieces of terrain. If I feigned castling up with some infantry with lascannons and a unit of mortars he might have take the bait and my manticores could have gotten off for a couple of turns basically unmolested.

2. Facing doesn't mean anything. Used to be if you wanted your tanks to hit something they had to be facing the target plus your armor was usually better in the front. So did I take advantage and push my tanks up against the board edge to maximize how far someone would have to charge/move? No of course not I faced them straight at the enemy for no apparent in-game reason.

3. Remember to separate your screens by 4 inches. Screwed that on up and had GSC in my face turn 1 - wiped out TWO 20 man units of conscripts in one turn. Basically all of my screens for my 750pt list. Was left with nothing but 3 russes and an astropath. While I still managed to win (thanks you Pask!) it was a little bit of nail biter and in this instance going second worked for me because I had a chance to shoot his guys off objectives if it came to that.

So those are my take aways for avoiding the alpha strike through good deployment