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So how about people that run an Alaitoc detahcment and then run their Ynnari detachment as mixed Craftworld because they still benefit from Strength from Death and are bound under the Asuryani Keyword (rather than Aeldari).

For example a Ynnari detachment could include a Saim Hann Shining Spear unit AND a unit of Ulthwe Black Guardians, still be bound under Asuryani, still benefit from Strength from Death and potentially use the Saim Hann and Ulthwe stratagems that are unlocked by a battle forged Alaitoc detachment. This is how people are currently playing it.

The ruling on Agents of Vect will change that and mean the Saim Hann Shining Spears and Ulthwe Guardians will need an Ulthwe / Saim Hann detachment to actually gain access to their rules.

shakul wrote:
So how about people that run an Alaitoc detahcment and then run their Ynnari detachment as mixed Craftworld because they still benefit from Strength from Death and are bound under the Asuryani Keyword (rather than Aeldari).

For example a Ynnari detachment could include a Saim Hann Shining Spear unit AND a unit of Ulthwe Black Guardians, still be bound under Asuryani, still benefit from Strength from Death and potentially use the Saim Hann and Ulthwe stratagems that are unlocked by a battle forged Alaitoc detachment. This is how people are currently playing it.

The ruling on Agents of Vect will change that and mean the Saim Hann Shining Spears and Ulthwe Guardians will need an Ulthwe / Saim Hann detachment to actually gain access to their rules.

Yes, if a Special Snowflake FAQ comes out that affects all stratagems, that will be the case. If a Special Snowflake FAQ comes out and only applies to the Agents of Vect stratagem, then Ynnari will still get to benefit. Better yet if some rulebook or codex errata is released.

As of the time of writing, no such FAQ or Errata has been released.

This ruling will effect astra militarum players as well since it is common to include scion units in a non-tempestus detachment. My play group ruled scions could use their stratagem even in another detachment just as they can use their special order which I believe just requires the officer and ordered unit to share their faction keyword.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

shakul wrote:
So how about people that run an Alaitoc detahcment and then run their Ynnari detachment as mixed Craftworld because they still benefit from Strength from Death and are bound under the Asuryani Keyword (rather than Aeldari).

For example a Ynnari detachment could include a Saim Hann Shining Spear unit AND a unit of Ulthwe Black Guardians, still be bound under Asuryani, still benefit from Strength from Death and potentially use the Saim Hann and Ulthwe stratagems that are unlocked by a battle forged Alaitoc detachment. This is how people are currently playing it.

The ruling on Agents of Vect will change that and mean the Saim Hann Shining Spears and Ulthwe Guardians will need an Ulthwe / Saim Hann detachment to actually gain access to their rules.

Yes, if a Special Snowflake FAQ comes out that affects all stratagems, that will be the case. If a Special Snowflake FAQ comes out and only applies to the Agents of Vect stratagem, then Ynnari will still get to benefit. Better yet if some rulebook or codex errata is released.

As of the time of writing, no such FAQ or Errata has been released.

But there is no FAQ or ruling.

- There's a cool little marketing info graphic on the obvious RAW use of 1st turn deepstrikes, promoting Grey Knight Interceptors as an example. Ergo, it's clear units starting on the board can "deepstrike" out of their deployment zone (and different interpretations by some have just been plain wrong, FAQ or not).

- There's a cool little marketing info graphic on the obvious RAW use of sub-faction-specific Stratagems, promoting Agents of Vect as an example. Ergo, it's clear sub-factions Stratagems require battle forged sub-faction Detachments to be unlocked (and different interpretations by some have just been plain wrong, FAQ or not).

There's probably no FAQ or errata needed, since arguments to the contrary have always been ludicrous.

Sunny Side Up wrote:


- There's a cool little marketing info graphic on the obvious RAW use of sub-faction-specific Stratagems, promoting Agents of Vect as an example. Ergo, it's clear sub-factions Stratagems require battle forged sub-faction Detachments to be unlocked (and different interpretations by some have just been plain wrong, FAQ or not).

I would love to say that this is RAW, but really do need some written rules that say this before I do so.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:


- There's a cool little marketing info graphic on the obvious RAW use of sub-faction-specific Stratagems, promoting Agents of Vect as an example. Ergo, it's clear sub-factions Stratagems require battle forged sub-faction Detachments to be unlocked (and different interpretations by some have just been plain wrong, FAQ or not).

I would love to say that this is RAW, but really do need some written rules that say this before I do so.

Nah, you don't.

If it were something unique and a specific exception to Agents of Vect, than you would need it written somewhere that Agents of Vect is treated differently than other sub-faction stratagems, just as we have explicit ruling that Chaos Daemons and Tyranid Stratagems work differently.

Otherwise, an info/marketing graphic telling you that bolters are the coolest weapon in 40K because they shoot twice under 12" isn't an errata or bolter-specific exception to the rapid fire rule, it just references the obvious use of this rule for marketing purposes.

An info/graphic telling you that Agent of Vect is the coolest Stratagem, but requires a BH Detachment isn't an errata or Drukhari-specific excpetion to the way Stratagesm work, it just references the "obvious" use of this rule for marketing purposes.


Since there is no FAQ that Agents of Vect/Drukhari Stratagems are different from other Stratagems in the vein of Chaos Daemons/Tyranids, they work just like the rest of them and the rest of them work just like Drukhari Stratagems.

The infographic is simply wrong, because it contradicts the rules, FAQ and Errata.

If I made a spanky infographic saying Ultramarines have 30 wounds each, does that change what the rules say? Of course not. Random people on Facebook are the same.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The infographic is simply wrong, because it contradicts the rules, FAQ and Errata.

If I made a spanky infographic saying Ultramarines have 30 wounds each, does that change what the rules say? Of course not. Random people on Facebook are the same.

Why should we believe a random guy on Dakka over a not actually random GW staffer on their company page? Your credentials are not as strong.

That you keep posting as if you are the final authority whilst refusing to read the words written by the actual rules authority is quite annoying.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The infographic is simply wrong, because it contradicts the rules, FAQ and Errata.

If I made a spanky infographic saying Ultramarines have 30 wounds each, does that change what the rules say? Of course not. Random people on Facebook are the same.

How is it incorrect.

You need a battleforged faction to unlock stratagems for that faction. The faction keyword line on the data sheets reference <Craftworlds> and the Stratagems are labeled Craftworlds Stratagems for the generic version (i.e whatever value <Craftworlds> takes on, Iyanden, whatever) or Saim-Hann Stratagems which only unlock for specific values of <Craftworlds>


There is no such thing as an Asuryani Stratagem in the game that could ping off the more general Faction Keyword.

If the <Craftworlds> etc.. in your detachment don't all take on the same value, the detachment is usually not battle-forged (not withstanding exceptions like Phoenix Lords, etc., ) thus you wouldn't unlock any stratagems at all.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The infographic is simply wrong, because it contradicts the rules, FAQ and Errata.

If I made a spanky infographic saying Ultramarines have 30 wounds each, does that change what the rules say? Of course not. Random people on Facebook are the same.

How is it incorrect.

You need a battleforged faction to unlock stratagems for that faction. The faction keyword line on the data sheets reference <Kabal> or <Craftworlds>, the Stratagems are labeled Kabal Stratagems or Craftworlds Stratagems for the generic version (i.e whatever value <Kabal> or <Craftworlds>, etc. .take on, Black Heart, Iyanden, whatever) or Black Heart Stratagems or Saim-Hann Stratagems which only unlock for specific values of <Kabal> or <Craftworlds>, etc..

There is no such thing as an Asuryani Stratagem or Drukhari Stratagem in the game that could ping off the more general Faction Keyword.

If the <Kabal> or <Craftworlds>, etc.. in your detachment don't all take on the same value, the detachment is usually not battle-forged (not withstanding exceptions like Phoenix Lords, etc., ) thus you wouldn't unlock any stratagems at all.

There is no rules basis for saying that you need a specific detachment to unlock a stratagem with a specific subheader. All the rules say is if you have a Drukhari detachment, you unlock the stratagems. That's it. An Ultramarines detachment unlocks the Imperial Fist stratagem, you just normally have a hard time using it. But if you had an Imperial Fists unit in some other detachment that didn't unlock stratagems, you having the Ultramarines detachment allows you to use the Imperial Fists stratagem on IMPERIAL FIST units.

Again this is a case of "What the rules say" vs "I don't like what the rules say thus it must be wrong".

Well this is all pretty much moot anyway as the mop-up FAQ will no doubt add a clarification to bolster the RAI, and BCB will claim he was always right as usual. Until then this thread will just be the usual back-and-forth.

fithos wrote:
This ruling will effect astra militarum players as well since it is common to include scion units in a non-tempestus detachment. My play group ruled scions could use their stratagem even in another detachment just as they can use their special order which I believe just requires the officer and ordered unit to share their faction keyword.

Just wanted to clarify for you that you are indeed already playing it correctly. The rules to unlock Astra Militarum stratagems (including the Tempestus one) only require a battle-forged army with an Astra Militarum detachment. You could have a squad from every regiment in one detachment, and still use all their stratagems (no doctrine though!).
If you have a Cadia detachment, you unlock the Vostroyan Strategem; you just can't actually use it as you have none of the correct units to apply it to!